Upgrade request for The End Point

[Floxiaaa]

I wish you all a good day before moving on to the scaling and request section. No matter how tired I am, I feel like I have to do it. I wish you a good read.



1) First of all, I would like to point out that the last point is a pure and unqualified canvas, and all the layers of creation depend on it and are superior to it.



There was only white that seemed to stretch on forever and no god to be found. It was just endless nothingness.

The end point of everything is the beginning and end of everything. It encompasses all possible worlds and timelines, but also exists outside of them.

終極点。宇宙の外側に存在するこの場所をアローヴィナスはそう名付けている。 そこは全ての終わりであり、始まりの場所だ。 ありとあらゆる世界、あらゆる時間軸がこの場所と繋がっている。

2) It is defined as something all-encompassing; that is, every occurrence of reality and every possible manifestation it produces will still be tied to the end point.

The end point of everything is the beginning and end of everything. It encompasses all possible worlds and timelines, but also exists outside of them.

It is defined as all-encompassing. Its vast area encompasses everything that can be thought of and comprehended. It includes all possible universes, dimensions and parallel worlds.

3) And yes, it is truly abstract and transcendent from all physical aspects of reality and is called "nothingness" many times.

There was only white that seemed to stretch on forever and no god to be found. It was just endless nothingness.

There were no fantasies, no dreams. There was only cruel nothingness.

As a result, the last point is pure and non-qualitative, it contains the scope and manifestation of existence, beyond that it is devoid of thing, in reality it is the scope of abstraction / physical management, concept / sequence / law / evaluation / all, the world participates in this, the last point makes High 1-A+





For things that could be considered anti-feats:

First of all, I want to say a few things about the cracks that occur. The cracks were caused by beings with strong wills and authority over the "canvas", such as Ruphas and Alovenus. I would appreciate it if you would not distort this and remember that it includes every aspect, extension and manifestation of creation. This is still infinite for reality and creation. Gods should not be associated with reality. You can think of the canvas as a metaphor, a door through which reality overflows and derives.

So much so, that, despite encompassing everything and being the source of everything, it is completely devoid of everything, like an unmanifested pure potentiality, that bear passive potency to be exact.

Everything came together in this divine space. It was a world that nobody except Alovenus could enter…At least, that was how it was supposed to be. It was a world of whiteness that spread infinitely towards the horizon. It would be meaningless to ask how far it extended, since the answer would be that it extended forever. This world was endless and infinite.

Strangely enough, as Alovenus herself had said, there was no concept of strength in a battle of this level anymore. Concepts, providences, laws, and even limits were all things that had been created by God. Therefore, there were no such things in the realm of God. They would just have to create their own based on their whims.

They were like trying to paint their own colors on a blank white canvas and enforce their own truths. Alovenus could do that, so there was no reason why they couldn’t do it themselves. After all, they were residents of the world that had been created by Alovenus. For the same reason, natural laws didn’t apply to them. In hindsight, this was probably why the laws of physics didn’t apply to them at all.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

What am I even reading at?

 

[Floxiaaa]

What am I even reading at?

What?

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

What?

This is too rushed and dry and lack of proofs that these “possible worlds” are connected to the 3 laws of thoughts. I can only see higher into 1-A and not even close to high 1-A since the Endpoint lacks meta qualities to be high 1-A in the first place but I’m just gonna wait for the counter arguments

 

[Floxiaaa]

This is too rushed and dry and lack of proofs that these “possible worlds” are connected to the 3 laws of thoughts. I can only see higher into 1-A and not even close to high 1-A since the Endpoint lacks meta qualities to be high 1-A in the first place but I’m just gonna wait for the counter arguments

You can define it much further than such modalities and realities. It is the point to which every manifestation of reality depends, far beyond limitations and modals such as the 3 laws of thought and modal realism. In short, "P" and "¬P" still exist in a logical or possible world within realities. The interpretation of the last point is the pure, featureless canvas that covers every manifestation in existence. I would like you to look at this from this perspective. In the metaphor, you can imagine the Canvas as the spring from which reality and existence overflow and originate.

 

[ZiuMei]

Following

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

You can define it much further than such modalities and realities. It is the point to which every manifestation of reality depends, far beyond limitations and modals such as the 3 laws of thought and modal realism. In short, "P" and "¬P" still exist in a logical or possible world within realities. The interpretation of the last point is the pure, featureless canvas that covers every manifestation in existence. I would like you to look at this from this perspective. In the metaphor, you can imagine the Canvas as the spring from which reality and existence overflow and originate.

The reason why the endpoint is 1-A because it transcends all levels of the material realms make it baseline 1-A unless you show that these universes that stacked together to make a hierarchy that transcends all levels of the material realms and each layers of those stacks have a r>f differences in order to be baseline high 1-A but so far I can’t find any.

In your description, "The Endpoint as a pure, featureless canvas”, transcending all realities and logical modalities is in good accord with a high-end 1-A interpretation in most cases. However, there is no indication of the Endpoint infinitely transcending other 1-A constructs; such Meta-transcendence is a requirement for High 1-A. Even though the Endpoint is at the source of all existence and manifestation, this makes it the ultimate source of 1-A hierarchies instead, not something which infinitely surpasses them. The metaphor of the 'canvas' or 'spring' positions it as a foundational layer rather than something infinitely beyond the entirety of 1-A spaces. The possible worlds is likely to aim to those universes in the material realms.

Also, surpassing logical frameworks and modal realism is already a requirement for baseline 1-A entities(in case I missed something). In the lack of evidences for infinite transcendence over all other 1-A hierarchies, the Endpoint remains higher into 1-A rather than High 1-A.

But anyways this is just my opinions and prolly wait for knowledgeable staffs to come and see this.

 

[Floxiaaa]

The reason why the endpoint is 1-A because it transcends all levels of the material realms make it baseline 1-A unless you show that these universes that stacked together to make a hierarchy that transcends all levels of the material realms and each layers of those stacks have a r>f differences in order to be baseline high 1-A but so far I can’t find any.

In your description, "The Endpoint as a pure, featureless canvas”, transcending all realities and logical modalities is in good accord with a high-end 1-A interpretation in most cases. However, there is no indication of the Endpoint infinitely transcending other 1-A constructs; such Meta-transcendence is a requirement for High 1-A. Even though the Endpoint is at the source of all existence and manifestation, this makes it the ultimate source of 1-A hierarchies instead, not something which infinitely surpasses them. The metaphor of the 'canvas' or 'spring' positions it as a foundational layer rather than something infinitely beyond the entirety of 1-A spaces. The possible worlds is likely to aim to those universes in the material realms.

Also, surpassing logical frameworks and modal realism is already a requirement for baseline 1-A entities(in case I missed something). In the lack of evidences for infinite transcendence over all other 1-A hierarchies, the Endpoint remains higher into 1-A rather than High 1-A.

But anyways this is just my opinions and prolly wait for knowledgeable staffs to come and see this.

No, they don't have to exceed it. They are merely laws imposed by lower forms of existence, independent of concept ideas (As far as I understand it). The logical framework can still be explained by someone at a higher level. In other words, the transcendence of 1-A is based on a more relativistic logic. But here I am talking about High 1-A+, which is a higher structure, and these definitions are made by the Gods. It should be interpreted as the canvas of "absolute" unity and creation rather than relative logic.

 

[Floxiaaa]

Endpoint infinitely transcending other 1-A constructs; such Meta-transcendence is a requirement for High 1-A.

There is no desire here to expand to larger layers of High 1-A or 1-A. Please stay on topic

 

[Floxiaaa]

The possible worlds is likely to aim to those universes in the material realms.

Are you sure you read it correctly? We are talking about conceptual creations, phenomena, an unqualified canvas on which every other possible creation depends. Here, everything is evaluated abstractly/physically and logically rather than physical targeting. An interpretation of reality that is independent of and superior to it is wrong.

 

[Floxiaaa]

It is defined as all-encompassing. Its vast area encompasses everything that can be thought of and comprehended. It includes all possible universes, dimensions and parallel worlds.

And yes, it is stated here that it is not just physical targeting.

 

[Floxiaaa]

Bump

 

[Floxiaaa]

Explanation for the three laws of thought
1) Law of Identity

First of all, the canvas is a neutral, limitless canvas that covers all of existence, devoid of features and qualities. Here, every reality is evaluated as it is, for example, for the case P, P=P on the canvas, or for the case ¬P, ¬P=¬P. Canvas is the unqualified plane where the facts exist as they are.

2) Law of Non-contradiction

Canvas covers all kinds of reality and its extensions, in short, it includes "the reality where the car is red and the reality where the car is not red". That is, it includes P (the car is red) and ¬P (the car is not red) under separate realities.

3) Law of excluded middle

It includes all extensions and manifestations of reality. Every situation depends on it. In short, it covers P and ¬P situations.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

No, they don't have to exceed it. They are merely laws imposed by lower forms of existence, independent of concept ideas (As far as I understand it). The logical framework can still be explained by someone at a higher level. In other words, the transcendence of 1-A is based on a more relativistic logic. But here I am talking about High 1-A+, which is a higher structure, and these definitions are made by the Gods. It should be interpreted as the canvas of "absolute" unity and creation rather than relative logic.

You stated that these laws are imposed by lower forms of existence, but isn't the canvas still being defined using logical terms like 'absolute unity and creation'? High 1-A+ requires true independence from all logical or conceptual frameworks, yet your argument relies on these to describe the canvas."

Transcendence of 1-A by using relativity is contradictory as relativistic logic implies that the framework of logic is still present but seen differently from a higher perspective. High 1-A+ requires surpassing all logic entirely, not just interpreting it differently.(in case I’m missing something)

If the canvas is defined by the Gods, doesn't that mean it is still dependent on their concepts?
If the definitions of the canvas are made by the Gods, this implies that the canvas is dependent on their conceptualization of it. High 1-A+ requires complete independence from all external entities, structures, and definitions.

You described the canvas as “absolute unity” and “creation”, and doesn’t that inherently tied to the concept of “unity” and “creation” here from what I’m seeing here and again High 1-A+ would acquired to be truly transcendence in any forms of conceptual dependency.

And as I recalled isn’t a High 1-A+ structure are an aspect/mind of a Tier 0? How can it be described by the gods in the first place

This will be my final comment until staffs came and give their evaluation


It’s best to called staffs here to give their evaluations

 

[Floxiaaa]

You stated that these laws are imposed by lower forms of existence, but isn't the canvas still being defined using logical terms like 'absolute unity and creation'? High 1-A+ requires true independence from all logical or conceptual frameworks, yet your argument relies on these to describe the canvas."

No. I said here that 1-A works on relativistic logic, and the white canvas contains and encompasses every essence of existence, whatever you can think of. There is nothing superior to or independent of it.

And as I recalled isn’t a High 1-A+ structure are an aspect/mind of a Tier 0? How can it be described by the gods in the first place

This is not necessarily an aspect of God's mind. It can still be identified by beings of the same level as it. This does not apply to the situation you mentioned.

If the canvas is defined by the Gods, doesn't that mean it is still dependent on their concepts?
If the definitions of the canvas are made by the Gods, this implies that the canvas is dependent on their conceptualization of it. High 1-A+ requires complete independence from all external entities, structures, and definitions.

Again, wrong logic. The gods do not impose any quality or logic on the canvas. Defining its state of existence is not about adding a "quality" to it.

You described the canvas as “absolute unity” and “creation”, and doesn’t that inherently tied to the concept of “unity” and “creation” here from what I’m seeing here and again High 1-A+ would acquired to be truly transcendence in any forms of conceptual dependency

Yes, as I mentioned above, in all of them, other etc. stand independently. It is independent of and transcendent from such conceptual obligations.

Humanitus_Primevilus888 said:

Transcendence of 1-A by using relativity is contradictory as relativistic logic implies that the framework of logic is still present but seen differently from a higher perspective. High 1-A+ requires surpassing all logic entirely, not just interpreting it differently.(in case I’m missing something)

There are still logic systems for layer 1-A. Do you think I associate this with High 1-A+? Then stop twisting my sentences.

Humanitus_Primevilus888 said:

You stated that these laws are imposed by lower forms of existence, but isn't the canvas still being defined using logical terms like 'absolute unity and creation'? High 1-A+ requires true independence from all logical or conceptual frameworks, yet your argument relies on these to describe the canvas."

A term used to indicate the nature of something does not attribute to it. The things you mentioned are valid for Tier 0. For example, your statement P for a Tier 0 character is definitely neither true nor false. Our topic is not Tier 0.

 

[Floxiaaa]

This will be my final comment until staffs came and give their evaluation


It’s best to called staffs here to give their evaluations

I would be happier if you left a reasonable comment.

 

[Floxiaaa]

And as I recalled isn’t a High 1-A+ structure are an aspect/mind of a Tier 0? How can it be described by the gods in the first place

There is no such thing as Ain Soph and Ain Soph Aur here.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

I would be happier if you left a reasonable comment.

Just saying like this because at this point we will be going on in circles so it’s best to let some knowledgable members of tier High 1-A+ evaluate this

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

Besides if you break the law of identity then you wouldn't have any identity at all

Alovenus wouldn't be Alovenus

Ruphas wouldn't be Ruphas

Benetnasch wouldn't be Benetnasch

Orm wouldn't be Orm

Besides, they do actions which comes from their mind, following the law of excluded middle

 

[Floxiaaa]

Just saying like this because at this point we will be going on in circles so it’s best to let some knowledgable members of tier High 1-A+ evaluate this

If seriously High 1-A+ can only be earned as an aspect of God in this system, it is illogical and ridiculous. We have to wait for an official to arrive.

 

[Floxiaaa]

Besides if you break the law of identity then you wouldn't have any identity at all

Alovenus wouldn't be Alovenus

Ruphas wouldn't be Ruphas

Benetnasch wouldn't be Benetnasch

Orm wouldn't be Orm

Besides, they do actions which comes from their mind, following the law of excluded middle

I don't deny this. I just explained the existence of these laws for modal realism.

 

[Ren1999]

just close this thread, because this thread is too rushed and also let pegasus upgrade this Verse in his own thread.

and i don't see any H1A+ feats here.

 

[Floxiaaa]

just close this thread, because this thread is too rushed and also let pegasus upgrade this Verse in his own thread.

and i don't see any H1A+ feats here.

What are you trying to say? Everyone is free to open a revision. I won't ask you this and explain why you didn't join High 1-A+. Otherwise I'll just ignore you

 

[Ren1999]

What are you trying to say? Everyone is free to open a revision. I won't ask you this and explain why you didn't join High 1-A+. Otherwise I'll just ignore you

and what you did was too hasty, don't blame anyone who downgrade this verse because of its feats wank, I won't argue with you here because it will waste my time.

but you want to continue this thread, it's up to you, what's certain is that this will be rejected and I won't waste my time.

 

[Floxiaaa]

and what you did was too hasty, don't blame anyone who downgrade this verse because of its feats wank, I won't argue with you here because it will waste my time.

but you want to continue this thread, it's up to you, what's certain is that this will be rejected and I won't waste my time.

I think you don't know logic and can't approach the situation clearly. That's clearly what you mean. I don't care what you do now

 

[Floxiaaa]

Bump

 

[Wankbreaker]

could be H1A+, but this wiki is very strict, and needs explicit mentions of modality or the like. With the evidence you have now, its probably unlikely this'll pass by

 

[Floxiaaa]

could be H1A+, but this wiki is very strict, and needs explicit mentions of modality or the like. With the evidence you have now, its probably unlikely this'll pass by

All of the possible worlds in any reality (whether P is in x and ¬P is in y) are still different extensions of reality. The end point is inherently pure, unqualified, beyond manifestations and extensions. It is located further away and lacks reference to limited modes.

 

[Floxiaaa]

could be H1A+, but this wiki is very strict, and needs explicit mentions of modality or the like. With the evidence you have now, its probably unlikely this'll pass by

I will shortly answer why it is beyond determination, with reference to alethic and bounded modals.

 

[Floxiaaa]

could be H1A+, but this wiki is very strict, and needs explicit mentions of modality or the like. With the evidence you have now, its probably unlikely this'll pass by

Yes, I think I can cook a little. First of all, I will need to give an example so that modals can still be evaluated under a reality. Let the state P indicate "existence" and the state ¬P indicate "non-existence" (even though these seem like opposite situations, in the end, the existence and non-existence of something are opposite situations). These are situations that still exist/are defined under certain different realities. This is true for every possible situation. As for the state of the canvas, it is pure and unqualified, that is, it is the existence where the determinations and explanations imposed by situations such as P and ¬P come together and are independent of them. (Calling it existence is just a metaphor. I don't attribute any quality or status to it). So there should be more than such limited modals and cases.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Eh High 1-A+ flies over my head a little, but what @Humanitus_Primevilus888 has said is what I think, the evidence seems to be lacking for such a major upgrade.

 

[Floxiaaa]

I answered everything he said one by one. The canvas is the symbol of ultimate unity. Even the gods are not stronger than "it". It covers every extension and aspect of creation. Compare this here to modals and references that limit this to the 3 laws of thought. It needs to be looked at more comprehensively. And I explained many times.

Eh High 1-A+ flies over my head a little, but what @Humanitus_Primevilus888 has said is what I think, the evidence seems to be lacking for such a major upgrade.

 

[Floxiaaa]

Eh High 1-A+ flies over my head a little, but what @Humanitus_Primevilus888 has said is what I think, the evidence seems to be lacking for such a major upgrade.

P imposes a specification on a reality (the reality X is a reality in which P exists) In this way we can define or describe X in this way. The same thing would be true in ¬P, but in a different reality. The point where all such realities come together and where each extension and manifestation of them will emerge again depends on this (for example, even when ¬P will reveal different situations compared to P, this still depends on the final point.) In other words, everything is its by-product. Everything depends on it and there is nothing independent or transcendent from it. It represents the highest, beyond which there is not even a "nothingness".

 

[Floxiaaa]

The reason why the endpoint is 1-A because it transcends all levels of the material realms make it baseline 1-A unless you show that these universes that stacked together to make a hierarchy that transcends all levels of the material realms and each layers of those stacks have a r>f differences in order to be baseline high 1-A but so far I can’t find any.

I did not make a hierarchical basis here. In any case, it is completely beyond hierarchical foundation and lacks the concept of "hierarchy". Don't take the issue in this direction. Secondly, this will not be extended to the higher layers of 1-A and this will not happen because this is impossible with any available resources. There is nothing beyond Canvas. Whether reality is manifested or unmanifested still depends on it. I've done this grounding of probabilities several times.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Think a big thing here for me is the lack of a 1-A hierarchy, but I assume it's not absolutely necessary, just like with 1-A no longer needs one.

The interesting thing is I just evaluated an upgrade thread for another verse, and while it does have a hierarchy, excluding all that, the evidence for High 1-A+ was very compelling to me. A lot of explanations were given ie with possible worlds, it's used to explained the omnipotent paradox, it's explained how when God created the world infinite potential existed, everything was possible, God is both above and below, beyond definitions etc

AWLBA does have some interesting statements such as with The Endpoint being the beginning and end, everything and nothing, and does mention parallel worlds, but doesn't expand on it, and it's the lack of explanation is why I am skeptical.

Anyway I will leave this to other more knowledgable staff, assuming they show up, I have many things to do in regards to AWLBA, and other series.

 

[Floxiaaa]

Think a big thing here for me is the lack of a 1-A hierarchy, but I assume it's not absolutely necessary, just like with 1-A no longer needs one.

The interesting thing is I just evaluated an upgrade thread for another verse, and while it does have a hierarchy, excluding all that, the evidence for High 1-A+ was very compelling to me. A lot of explanations were given ie with possible worlds, it's used to explained the omnipotent paradox, it's explained how when God created the world infinite potential existed, everything was possible, God is both above and below, beyond definitions etc

AWLBA does have some interesting statements such as with The Endpoint being the beginning and end, everything and nothing, and does mention parallel worlds, but doesn't expand on it, and it's the lack of explanation is why I am skeptical.

Anyway I will leave to other more knowledable staff, assuming they show up, I have many things to do in regards to AWLBA, and other series.

Do you have Discord? I would like to explain this in a more proper environment.
Everything you mentioned has an explanation for the last point.

 

[Floxiaaa]

Think a big thing here for me is the lack of a 1-A hierarchy, but I assume it's not absolutely necessary, just like with 1-A no longer needs one.

The interesting thing is I just evaluated an upgrade thread for another verse, and while it does have a hierarchy, excluding all that, the evidence for High 1-A+ was very compelling to me. A lot of explanations were given ie with possible worlds, it's used to explained the omnipotent paradox, it's explained how when God created the world infinite potential existed, everything was possible, God is both above and below, beyond definitions etc

AWLBA does have some interesting statements such as with The Endpoint being the beginning and end, everything and nothing, and does mention parallel worlds, but doesn't expand on it, and it's the lack of explanation is why I am skeptical.

Anyway I will leave this to other more knowledgable staff, assuming they show up, I have many things to do in regards to AWLBA, and other series.

Yes, let me explain this then. The canvas has been described many times as the ultimate all-inclusive and "beyond everything". Reality and everything that governs reality participates in it, but it is not related to them. So it is this: Everything participates in it, but it is not related to them. This creation actually symbolizes singularity and absolute existence. The canvas is the main reason that lies both above everything and underneath everything. It is the canvas that allows creation to manifest. Gods need canvas to create such things. The canvas is the main cause, and the Gods are not stronger than the canvas. The canvas encompasses all extensions of what they create and what they will create, there is nothing independent or transcendent of it.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I feel there needs to be more context on all possible realities/world descriptions. We know this includes arbitrarily large worlds, and not just base-line alternate realities/dimensions.

1-A makes sense to me though.