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Marvel Cosmology Redo (Part 1 of 2)

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VeryGoofyToddler2

VeryGoofyToddler2

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As you may have guessed from the title. This is a long time coming and Marvel Cosmology is getting some interesting changes based on the research of the blog:

vsbattles.fandom.com

J.M. DeMatteis Cosmology(Marvel)

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

I’ll keep it short and self-explanatory.

Tiering:​

Material Plane: 1-A+(Based on all of Reality being folded inside infinite dreams and level of consciousness of worlds within worlds being more real than the last)

Metaphysical Realms: High 1-A(Transcends the material realm and all of its extensions and hierarchy operating in a level beyond and above it)

Franklin Richards and Job Burke: High 1-A+(type 1) (Both can control the Nexus which is the focal point of Creation and contains myriads of possibilities which holds the potential of possible worlds. Both can casually unmake reality at a whim)

Oblivion: High 1-A+(type 2) (The Void of nothingness preceding Creation, forms, and illusions. Utterly, beyond existence in its entirety and is God’s unconscious mind. The space from which the Creator brought forth Creation and will eternally slumber in. The Cosmological Apex)

God: 0(Beyond duality, Oneness beyond everything, powers Creation and Oblivion, and transcends all of existence including non-existence which is nothing but a thought in it’s divine mind)
 
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This is something that needs to be looked at in-depth and also,, how exactly is the "more real than the last world" treated. but I will also have a look later today
 
PrinceofPein said:
This is something that needs to be looked at in-depth and also,, how exactly is the "more real than the last world" treated. but I will also have a look later today
Click to expand...
Those statement do not need depth. They're flat-out 1-A. He was saying that the dream of Reality he was in was much realer than reality as if the dream was reality and his reality a dream.
 
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VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Those statement do not need depth. They're flat-out 1-A. He was saying that the dream of Reality he was in was much realer than the reality as if the Dream was reality and his reality a dream.
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They do, what are the nature of these dreams, are they 1-A+ though thats the question. I will have a look later
 
PrinceofPein said:
They do, what are the nature of these dreams, are they 1-A+ though that's the question. I will have a look later
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Not particularly especially not within this example.

Realer than reality already covers what's needed for 1-A. A baseline level of existence and the ontological place of transcendence. Being a dream within a dream as explained as realer than real is self-sufficent. This was obviously made clear with other examples and is the most notable one that Ultima said.

Disqualifiers are exceptions, not rules.
 
I agree but have some questions.
Metaphysical Realms, how many layers into High 1-A are there?
can you explain more why Nexus is High 1-A+? I have some doubts about it
 
Elyartaker said:
I agree but have some questions.
Metaphysical Realms, how many layers into High 1-A are there?
Click to expand...
Infinite layers.
Elyartaker said:
can you explain more why Nexus is High 1-A+? I have some doubts about it
Click to expand...
The totality of the structure already encompasses everything below. That structure keep in mind is a “shadow of shadow of the true Nexus.” So it goes well beyond a lot of things and by Man-Thing statement there are possible worlds. At the very least High 1-A+(Tyle 1) seems feasible. That could change which I'm not against.
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Infinite layers.

The totality of the structure already encompasses everything below. That structure keep in mind is a “shadow of shadow of the true Nexus.” So it goes well beyond a lot of things and by Man-Thing statement there are possible worlds. At the very least High 1-A+(Tyle 1) seems feasible. That could change which I'm not against.
Click to expand...
There is also technically the fact that The Nexus contains the Incarnate Form of God that manifests The Divine Creators powers into Creation (Combination of what was said by the Book of Life that the Divine Creator is just as much within the Dream as they are outside of it, and what happened in Chaos War: Thor where it was confirmed that the Divine Creator is within every being and thing, confirming they're within the Dream) , so I'd say High 1-A+ is a given for the Nexus even without the possible worlds thing.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
There is also technically the fact that The Nexus contains the Incarnate Form of God that manifests The Divine Creators powers into Creation (Combination of what was said by the Book of Life that the Divine Creator is just as much within the Dream as they are outside of it, and what happened in Chaos War: Thor where it was confirmed that the Divine Creator is within every being and thing, confirming they're within the Dream) , so I'd say High 1-A+ is a given for the Nexus even without the possible worlds thing.
Click to expand...
I don't mind the shout. Though, Thor's statement doesn't confirm that because you have to remember everyone is “God” and contain species of his divinity. It's like the metaphor DeMatteis borrows from Meher Baba. God's soul is an endless Ocean and each individual soul has no separation from the Ocean. That even a drop of water in the Ocean is the Ocean itself. God doesn't need to exist within the Dream for that to be true, that's simply intuitively the nature of Soul and God being one unison separated only by illusions.
 
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
The totality of the structure already encompasses everything below.
Click to expand...
If I understood correctly, you mean the Nexus to structures below, right?
If that’s the case, I just don’t see it being helpful, to be honest.
Encompassing infinite layers into baseline High 1-A (correct me if I’m wrong) still seems like it’s at that level and not beyond it, doesn’t it?
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
That structure keep in mind is a “shadow of shadow of the true Nexus.” So it goes well beyond a lot of things
Click to expand...
Is it possible to interpret it to be meta meta qualitative superiority rather than jumping straight into High 1-A+?
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
and by Man-Thing statement there are possible worlds. At the very least High 1-A+(Tyle 1) seems feasible. That could change which I'm not against.
Click to expand...
I see. With that it might be High 1-A+ but I still have some doubts.

I'm just spectacle about nexus tbh.
Also sorry for responding late haha.
 
Elyartaker said:
I see. With that it might be High 1-A+ but I still have some doubts.

I'm just spectacle about nexus tbh.
Also sorry for responding late haha.
Click to expand...
I realize that I hadn't even put the Nexus tier. I did previously, but some of those were meant to change. If anything I was just giving it to Eternity, but the scaling does better from the other two scaling to the Nexus which was an integral part of the Cosmology.
 
God: 0(Beyond duality, Oneness beyond everything, powers Creation and Oblivion, and transcends all of existence including non-existence which is nothing but a thought in it’s divine mind)

Is this divine creator or the TOAA
 
Most of these issues are something I have not read in a long time and I cannot remember much from it, so I am not the best person to evaluate it either
 
This looks fine to me, I am just wondering who “God” is supposed to be, is it Yaweah, The One Above All, or another character?
EDIT: NVM, I didn’t notice that this got answered already.
 
Antvasima said:
Your attention is needed here. 🙏
Click to expand...
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
I’ll keep it short and self-explanatory.
Click to expand...
I'm not exactly qualified, but since it seems the help is really needed I'll try my best.
And for the sake of getting this started I'll take your word for the explanations for now and evaluate based on that.
If there's a lore reason or additional context why these facts are inaccurate, I wouldn't really know it, since I never got into these sort of high-tier comics.
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Material Plane: 1-A+(Based on all of Reality being folded inside infinite dreams and level of consciousness of worlds within worlds being more real than the last)
Click to expand...
Assuming 'worlds' are infinite universes (Low 2-C) -> assuming 'worlds within worlds each realer than the last' is infinite layers of superior dimensions (High 1-B) -> a dream which contains these dimensions (Low 1-A) -> a dream which contains that dream (1-A) -> repeat infinitely (1-A+)

So, assuming that I interpreted that all correctly, I believe that checks out.

Though the wording is technically vague on what being "folded" inside them means. If they're folded on the inside, doesn't that make all of Reality not actually relevant to these dreams? I.E: this establishes that these dreams are 1-A+, but how do we know the "Material Plane" refers to this whole structure of dreams, and not just the "Reality" which is "folded" inside of them?

While I wait for that to be answered, I'll continue assuming it is indeed 1-A+.
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Metaphysical Realms: High 1-A(Transcends the material realm and all of its extensions and hierarchy operating in a level beyond and above it)
Click to expand...
Based on this wording, this would indeed be High 1-A on account of "all its extensions and hierarchy" naturally extending to all those dreams from before.
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Franklin Richards and Job Burke: High 1-A+(type 1) (Both can control the Nexus which is the focal point of Creation and contains myriads of possibilities which holds the potential of possible worlds. Both can casually unmake reality at a whim)
Click to expand...
Assuming that "Creation" refers to all above, sure. Though how do we know that for sure?
Also, what do you man by type 1?
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
Oblivion: High 1-A+(type 2) (The Void of nothingness preceding Creation, forms, and illusions. Utterly, beyond existence in its entirety and is God’s unconscious mind. The space from which the Creator brought forth Creation and will eternally slumber in. The Cosmological Apex)
Click to expand...
Same as above, but what do you mean by type 2?
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
God: 0(Beyond duality, Oneness beyond everything, powers Creation and Oblivion, and transcends all of existence including non-existence which is nothing but a thought in it’s divine mind)
Click to expand...
The word "transcends" is kind of vague here, and the description sounds pretty similar to the previous guy.
How, specifically, do we know this is Tier 0 and not just higher into High 1-A+?
 
FinePoint said:
I'm not exactly qualified, but since it seems the help is needed I'll try my best.
And for the sake of getting this started I'll take your word for the explanations for now and evaluate based on that.
If there's a lore reason or additional context why these facts are inaccurate, I wouldn't really know it, since I never got into these sort of high-tier comics.

Assuming 'worlds' are infinite universes (Low 2-C) -> assuming 'worlds within worlds each realer than the last' is infinite layers of superior dimensions (High 1-B) -> a dream which contains these dimensions (Low 1-A) -> a dream which contains that dream (1-A) -> repeat infinitely (1-A+)

So, assuming that I interpreted that all correctly, I believe that checks out.
Click to expand...
More real than reality itself is already 1-A. Outerversal just needs to establish R>F between one level(the baseline level of existence) and the place of transcendence which is explained by more real than reality itself. Which in the example I provided in the blogs gets both conceptual transcendence and R>F.
FinePoint said:
Though the wording is technically vague on what being "folded" inside them means. If they're folded on the inside, doesn't that make all of Reality not actually relevant to these dreams? I.E: this establishes that these dreams are 1-A+, but how do we know the "Material Plane" refers to this whole structure of dreams, and not just the "Reality" which is "folded" inside of them?
Click to expand...
All of Creation or “Reality” is a single dream. In that “dream” is different level of consciousness and the material is called the “Gross Plane” where each level is a dream within a dream which shares a hierarchy to which another level of consciousness is a separate level of existence with its own hierarchy separating the material from the metaphysical and so on. So, each level occupies its own dreams and whatnot with each higher dream being more “real” than the last.

A dream folded inside an infinite dream is incurring that Creation has infinite level of existence to which the material and metaphysical are two prime example, and not the entire thing.
FinePoint said:
Based on this wording, this would indeed be High 1-A on account of "all its extensions and hierarchy" naturally extending to all those dreams from before.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the metaphysical realms are completely separate from the material and encompasses all of its structure. People at this level can think up of worlds with just their thoughts. Though, it gets confusing because everything is not real and is just an illusions so each plane and their properties is a byproduct of something and someone else and this notions isn't limited to just these two planes.
FinePoint said:
Assuming that "Creation" refers to all above, sure. Though how do we know that for sure?
Also, what do you man by type 1?
Click to expand...
Yeah, there isn't a limit to who is dreaming of the previous layers. It just goes on until everyone realizes they’re God.

Type 1 just encompasses or the ability creates a large world(modal worlds). As oppose to type which is all possible space.
FinePoint said:
Same as above, but what do you mean by type 2?

The word "transcends" is kind of vague here, and the description sounds pretty similar to the previous guy.
How, specifically, do we know this is Tier 0 and not just higher into High 1-A+?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's very Hindu based people everyone is God and they transcends everything in their nature. This example still highlights they're bound to being thoughts of God playing his divine drama in his head. So their transcendence is only established to all of Creation and still limited by Oblivion which God transcends both existence(Creation) and non-existence(Oblivion).
 
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VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
More real than reality itself is already 1-A. Outerversal just needs to establish R>F between one level(the baseline level of existence) and the place of transcendence which is explained by more real than reality itself. Which in the example I provided in the blogs gets both conceptual transcendence and R>F.
Click to expand...
I'd say not always, since that's a common interpretation of just the difference between dimensions as well, but in this case I can see that given the additional context you've given me. I wasn't exactly sure what 'dream' meant yet.
VeryGoofyToddler2 said:
All of Creation or “Reality” is a single dream. In that “dream” is different level of consciousness and the material is called the “Gross Plane” where each level is a dream within a dream which shares a hierarchy to which another level of consciousness is a separate level of existence with its own hierarchy separating the material from the metaphysical and so on. So, each level occupies its own dreams and whatnot with each higher dream being more “real” than the last.
Click to expand...
So does "Material Plane" refer to the first dream in this sequence, the last one, or the whole structure?
 
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