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SPEED UPGRADE CLASSIC DRAGON BALL :D

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Tom4t0GG789

Tom4t0GG789

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Well, first I would like to see that for the manga's feat of the Kamehameha to the Moon, we should use the anime's time frame, since it uses a more accurate time frame.

The other thing is that I found this text in Daizenshuu 2, which thanks to the translation team was translated like this:

The Turtle Hermit (Master Roshi) attempts to seal King Piccolo using the Evil Containment Wave (Mafuba), but tragically fails and dies with deep regret. Finally, King Piccolo gathers all seven Dragon Balls and makes his wish to restore his youth. After his wish is granted, he kills Shenron, deeming it unnecessary. Meanwhile, Goku climbs Korin Tower once more and drinks the Ultra Divine Water, which multiplies his strength several times over. At the same time, Tien Shinhan is about to be killed by one of King Piccolo's minions, Drum, but Goku arrives just in time. Thus begins the showdown between Goku and King Piccolo.
Click to expand...

On the page, we usually take the "several" as a x3

So my proposal was:
How does this affect the verse?

Well it would be a slight change, since we used the calculation of Piccolo destroying the Moon for the speed, but seeing this new speed, it would be a slight improvement to the blog I made previously.

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:
 
Why exactly is this multiplier being used for speed when it's explicitly stated to multiply Goku's strength?
 
Tom4t0GG789 said:
Well, first I would like to see that for the manga's feat of the Kamehameha to the Moon, we should use the anime's time frame, since it uses a more accurate time frame.

The other thing is that I found this text in Daizenshuu 2, which thanks to the translation team was translated like this:



On the page, we usually take the "several" as a x3

So my proposal was:
How does this affect the verse?

Well it would be a slight change, since we used the calculation of Piccolo destroying the Moon for the speed, but seeing this new speed, it would be a slight improvement to the blog I made previously.

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:
Click to expand...
1) Why are you giving Roshi's moon busting speed to their combat speeds?

if you assume they're fast enough to dodge the max kamehameha then they dont get moon level scaling as he wouldnt need it to beat roshi
you either get speed or get ap, not both

2) what is the reason for saying picollo jr is 2x young king picollo?
 
Nierre said:
Why exactly is this multiplier being used for speed when it's explicitly stated to multiply Goku's strength?
Click to expand...
Literacy style: Lacking reading comprehension no jutsu!.
Also, I agree with the upgrade, pretty blatant.
 
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Nierre said:
Why exactly is this multiplier being used for speed when it's explicitly stated to multiply Goku's strength?
Click to expand...
"Manipulating and increasing the ki in the body amplifies statistics, such as strength, overall power, destructive capacity, speed, defensive force and aerial capabilities,[6] and is also shown that the characters are normally comparable to their ki attacks, and thus, qualifies for a Universal Energy System."

This is directly from Ki manipulation page Universal System part

Do you agree with thread btw? (Also congrats on your promotion, just noticed it)
 
We are not applying a strength multiplier to speed, so I disagree with this revision. I'll add some notes to this too
Gp972 said:
ibb.co

images-2024-12-31-T142617-563 hosted at ImgBB

Image images-2024-12-31-T142617-563 in the Speed and Strenght album
ibb.co ibb.co
Click to expand...
This is talking about the "power level" metric used in DBZ, as opposed to directly mentioning strength. The whole thing with "power levels" in Dragon Ball is super scuffed for reasons that have been talked about in one way or another, like how normal humans would be High 6-A if we're to take this literally
TheGreatBanana said:
Literacy style: Lacking reading comprehension no jutsu!.
Also, I agree with the upgrade, pretty blatant.
Click to expand...
This is Top 10 easiest ways to get yourself a one-way ticket to a report. Don't do this again, thanks
Tom4t0GG789 said:
Well it would be a slight change, since we used the calculation of Piccolo destroying the Moon for the speed, but seeing this new speed, it would be a slight improvement to the blog I made previously.
Click to expand...
This blog was brought up, but it's similarly flawed (such as doubling speed for adding a guy to another guy).

People are talking about ki amps when the quote specifically says strength. This is not a valid speed multiplier in my eyes
 
CloverDragon03 said:
This blog was brought up, but it's similarly flawed (such as doubling speed for adding a guy to another guy).

People are talking about ki amps when the quote specifically says strength. This is not a valid speed multiplier in my eyes
Click to expand...
Yeah this makes sense to me.
I was going to say this but after that "lacking comprehension" comment, i was planning on just ghosting the thread

anyway i agree with clover here.
 
We take PL and strength increases to corrolate with speed (generally, fringe cases exist like Grade 3), but not 1:1 unless specified like with Kaioken or SSJ.

All that strength statement does, is give them a completely unquantifable "higher" but not enough to effect anything. Could be 1%, could be 1:1, no way to know, it's essentially useless.
 
Chariot190 said:
We take PL and strength increases to corrolate with speed (generally, fringe cases exist like Grade 3), but not 1:1 unless specified like with Kaioken or SSJ.

All that strength statement does, is give them a completely unquantifable "higher" but not enough to effect anything. Could be 1%, could be 1:1, no way to know, it's essentially useless.
Click to expand...
Funny, a few months ago I said the same thing to some people about this same kind of thread, they literally trash talked me and told me I didn't understand "basic logic". Whatever, I agree with you.
 
Chariot190 said:
We take PL and strength increases to corrolate with speed (generally, fringe cases exist like Grade 3), but not 1:1 unless specified like with Kaioken or SSJ.

All that strength statement does, is give them a completely unquantifable "higher" but not enough to effect anything. Could be 1%, could be 1:1, no way to know, it's essentially useless.
Click to expand...
I don't understand this

if it's correlated would it not mean 1:1 increase?

If Frieza's next forms that explicitly state strength difference can warrant speed multipliers then this amp which also multiplies strength should also be allowed the same multiplier
 
Digital_Franz said:
Funny, a few months ago I said the same thing to some people about this same kind of thread, they literally trash talked me and told me I didn't understand "basic logic". Whatever, I agree with you.
Click to expand...
I mean, that's LITERALLY what's accepted.
Ghostimuscrime said:
I don't understand this

if it's correlated would it not mean 1:1 increase?

If Frieza's next forms that explicitly state strength difference can warrant speed multipliers then this amp which also multiplies strength should also be allowed the same multiplier
Click to expand...
No because they dont say how much, it could even be HIGHER than 1:1, we just know, generally, it increases but how much shrug.
We need exact specification or a statement saying general increases in power, equate to speed.

Sometimes this happens and we use it, sometimes it don't thus it's arbitrary, hell sometimes they get stronger and nothing happens for speed (this has happened).

It's vague, we don't accept multipliers off assumptions.
 
Chariot190 said:
I mean, that's LITERALLY what's accepted.

No because they dont say how much, it could even be HIGHER than 1:1, we just know, generally, it increases but how much shrug.
We need exact specification or a statement saying general increases in power, equate to speed.

Sometimes this happens and we use it, sometimes it don't thus it's arbitrary, hell sometimes they get stronger and nothing happens for speed (this has happened).

It's vague, we don't accept multipliers off assumptions.
Click to expand...
I agree some amps will result in no/lesser speed changes
(pardon me asking a bit more in depth, I'm just curious)
I see why Kaioken would get 1:1 speed amps due to direct statements of affecting both ap and speed, may I ask why SSJ multiplier is allowed for speed? as theres evidence of speeds being the same/lower in certain states

Was there evidence to say frieza's amps are also 1:1? he has the same evidence as the op linked for the speed blog
 
CloverDragon03 said:
We are not applying a strength multiplier to speed, so I disagree with this revision. I'll add some notes to this too

This is talking about the "power level" metric used in DBZ, as opposed to directly mentioning strength. The whole thing with "power levels" in Dragon Ball is super scuffed for reasons that have been talked about in one way or another, like how normal humans would be High 6-A if we're to take this literally

This is Top 10 easiest ways to get yourself a one-way ticket to a report. Don't do this again, thanks

This blog was brought up, but it's similarly flawed (such as doubling speed for adding a guy to another guy).

People are talking about ki amps when the quote specifically says strength. This is not a valid speed multiplier in my eyes
Click to expand...


Power and speed increase at the same time, if the character is 10 times stronger he is 10 times faster too, Also Goku kid is only twice(farmer is 5 Goku is 10) as strong as the farmer and can resist bullets and run meters in seconds, apparently the power level in this case is more exponential than linear as seen in dbz, But still Vegeta talks about power, not about numbers.
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
may I ask why SSJ multiplier is allowed for speed? as theres evidence of speeds being the same/lower in certain states

Was there evidence to say frieza's amps are also 1:1? he has the same evidence as the op linked for the speed blog
Click to expand...
Pretty sure SSJ has a statement somewhere hence why.
Freeza im not sure we actually do? I think we just scale his speed off Goku who uses kaioken and ssj and shit.

Gp972 said:
Power and speed increase at the same time, if the character is 10 times stronger he is 10 times faster too, Also Goku kid is only twice(farmer is 5 Goku is 10) as strong as the farmer and can resist bullets and run meters in seconds, apparently the power level in this case is more exponential than linear as seen in dbz, But still Vegeta talks about power, not about numbers.
Click to expand...
It's exponential except when it isnt like Kaioken and SSJ and Freeza and-

It's inconsistent. This isnt a good thing.
 
Didn't we just get a 20 times increase in Goku's speed via training with King Kai accepted just recently?
 
Gp972 said:
Power and speed increase at the same time, if the character is 10 times stronger he is 10 times faster too, Also Goku kid is only twice(farmer is 5 Goku is 10) as strong as the farmer and can resist bullets and run meters in seconds, apparently the power level in this case is more exponential than linear as seen in dbz, But still Vegeta talks about power, not about numbers.
Click to expand...
Vegeta is explicitly talking about "power level" as in the numbers. The example with Cui about how his power level went from 18,000 to 24,000.

Also, the assertion about power and speed is completely baseless as a general thing. Stuff like Kaioken are explicit about boosting both AP and speed by the same amount, but that's not the case with everything. Especially in a case like this where the thing being multiplied is explicitly "strength."
 
CloverDragon03 said:
This is talking about the "power level" metric used in DBZ, as opposed to directly mentioning strength. The whole thing with "power levels" in Dragon Ball is super scuffed for reasons that have been talked about in one way or another, like how normal humans would be High 6-A if we're to take this literally
Click to expand...
That just means it's a non-linear metric system, the whole thing about power levels is that it just measures the strength of the opponent
 
CloverDragon03 said:
Still doesn't change the fact that we can't assume a 3x increase to "strength" means a 3x increase to speed.
Click to expand...
Isn't this literally how it works with very few exceptions?
If strength refers to the increase in ki, hi speed and power would go up at least as much, if it refers only to AP, his speed would go up along with it, as Vegeta literally explained on namek
 
ArcaneAbyss said:
Isn't this literally how it works with very few exceptions?
If strength refers to the increase in ki, hi speed and power would go up at least as much, if it refers only to AP, his speed would go up along with it, as Vegeta literally explained on namek
Click to expand...
Nobody is saying speed didn't inherently grow too, just not by the exact same amount. That needs to be proven, sometimes it's the case, sometimes it isn't. If it sometimes isn't, it needs to be proven otherwise. Is it 1%? 10%? 1:1? Or maybe even higher? We don't know, cases exist for every instance.

Personally I'm unsure anyway, Goku didn't get a noticeable speed increase after that anyhow, if he was 3x quicker, that'd have enabled him to borderline blitz Tao I think? It's been awhile. But that's beside the point.
 
In what world do we assume speed doesn’t grow in the amount as the rest of the statistics. That’s been the formula for DB for years. Is there concrete examples of this that aren’t stated to be special cases?
 
AwkguyDB said:
In what world do we assume speed doesn’t grow in the amount as the rest of the statistics. That’s been the formula for DB for years. Is there concrete examples of this that aren’t stated to be special cases?
Click to expand...
because there's no evidence of speed being boosted to the same degree
why would you assign AP buffs to speed without valid reasoning?
 
Ghostimuscrime said:
because there's no evidence of speed being boosted to the same degree
why would you assign AP buffs to speed without valid reasoning?
Click to expand...
We are very specifically told how strong a character has gotten, it is right for us to assume the Speed went up just as much.
DB works in system where if
My Attack: 1
My Speed: 1
My Defense: 1
and I get a 2x stronger then I get 2x faster as well too. The Vegeta scan above literally states “If my power increases my speed increases ALONG WITH IT.” for one of the most standard and general power boost in the series. We literally have to assume it goes along with it until shown otherwise. Give examples where it’s not shown otherwise. Your only examples of Speed possibly being separate from power come from Butta who was clearly just hype and Dyspo who has blatant statements or the opposite with grade 2 and 3 forms which not only again have blatant statements but visually show why the speed doesn’t massively increase. Even Oozaro Vegeta straight up blitzed Goku because of his Ki increasing. Burden of proof is on y’all to prove examples where speed didn’t move up with the power from a standard power up.
 
AwkguyDB said:
We are very specifically told how strong a character has gotten, it is right for us to assume the Speed went up just as much.
DB works in system where if
My Attack: 1
My Speed: 1
My Defense: 1
and I get a 2x stronger then I get 2x faster as well too. The Vegeta scan above literally states “If my power increases my speed increases ALONG WITH IT.” for one of the most standard and general power boost in the series. We literally have to assume it goes along with it until shown otherwise. Give examples where it’s not shown otherwise. Your only examples of Speed possibly being separate from power come from Butta who was clearly just hype and Dyspo who has blatant statements or the opposite with grade 2 and 3 forms which not only again have blatant statements but visually show why the speed doesn’t massively increase. Even Oozaro Vegeta straight up blitzed Goku because of his Ki increasing. Burden of proof is on y’all to prove examples where speed didn’t move up with the power from a standard power up.
Click to expand...
the bolded part is you making claims but not backing it up with evidence

vegeta doesnt say it increase the same amount, which is what you're claiming
 
Vegeta says the speed increases along with the strength. If we have objective amount the strength increased then the speed goes along with it
 
AwkguyDB said:
Vegeta says the speed increases along with the strength. If we have objective amount the strength increased then the speed goes along with it
Click to expand...
not to get into the debate, but no one here is saying that the speed doesn't increase as well... what is being questioned is if the number truly is by the same ammount, as in, 2x one means 2x the other..........this is weirdly not done for LS or any other stat also... which is odd, to say the least
 
AwkguyDB said:
Vegeta says the speed increases along with the strength. If we have objective amount the strength increased then the speed goes along with it
Click to expand...
Why do some characters excel in speed over strength? Why do some strength increases not have a relevant speed increase? Why does some strength increases even lower speed? Why do some buffs just effect a single thing and nothing else?

Vegeta was speaking generally mind you And also in regards to Ki as a whole, which is what PL works on, not as a 100% universal fact, there's stuff in that very arc that shoots down speed and strength have a 1:1 relation as a 100% fact. But that's beside the point, the wiki needs statements, hard concrete proof for multipliers, DBZ isn't consistent on this fact.

Though as said, I'm like 90% sure Goku didn't get quicker from this anyway.
 
AwkguyDB said:
Vegeta says the speed increases along with the strength. If we have objective amount the strength increased then the speed goes along with it
Click to expand...
No one disagreed with that
This is getting circular

Vegeta didn’t say “speed increases just as much”
You said that, if it’s Unbacked it can be dismissed
 
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