Can 4D AP bypass Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation?

[Aaaaa11112222]

So, let's say a character has a defense that's entirely conceptual, or his existence is entirely conceptual. Physical parameters can't bypass this because it's inherently conceptual and abstract in nature, and so, you would need to manipulate with concepts themself to bypass this existence or etc, yes? However, if this character's defense is manipulating the dependent concept only, or Type 2 concepts, wouldn't 4D AP logically bypass this existence because dependent concepts are bound from the area they govern, which can be 3D?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Unless u can prove the concept being manipulated is 3D in nature, 4D AP is absolutly useless against CM

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

Unless u can prove the concept being manipulated is 3D in nature, 4D AP is absolutly useless against CM

The concept is dependent in nature. It's area of influence is 3D because it's bound from the area they govern. So, would this mean 4D AP would bypass it, even if it's parameters and purely abstract and different from physical space?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The concept is dependent in nature. It's area of influence is 3D because it's bound from the area they govern.

If the area it governs is 4D, then nah, its area of influence is not 3D, but 4D

So, would this mean 4D AP would bypass it, even if it's parameters and purely abstract and different from physical space?

No

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I would like to ask this asw: Is the character's existence itself is conceptual, or he's just a normal guy with CM hax?

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

If the area it governs is 4D, then nah, its area of influence is not 3D, but 4D

But it isn't 4D, it's just 3D? It's a character with a dependent conceptual defense. The dependent concept here governs the area of influence, which is just 3D.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

I would like to ask this asw: Is the character's existence itself is conceptual, or he's just a normal guy with CM hax?

a normal guy with CM hax

 

[Lloydblitzed]

But it isn't 4D, it's just 3D? It's a character with a dependent conceptual defense. The dependent concept here governs the area of influence, which is just 3D.

Nah

2. Dependent Concepts: Such concepts are abstract and govern all reality within their area of influence.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

Nah

It says all reality within their area of influence, but the area of influence in this context is just 3D? Like, a regular universe
Also, what about higher-dimensional manipulation or AP? Not just 4D. Would this by deafult destroy this conceptual defense or do they have to have conceptual manipulation to override it?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It says all reality within their area of influence, but the area of influence in this context is just 3D? Like, a regular universe

I really don't see what it changes. Someone with Low 2-C to 2-A AP will never be able to somehow defend himself against CM without sum type of resistance or abstract existence or HDE bc he can't even interact with the concept to begin with

 

[Robo432343]

the person with 4-D AP nukes the cosmology and wins against the 3-D CM user

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

I really don't see what it changes. Someone with Low 2-C to 2-A AP will never be able to somehow defend himself against CM without sum type of resistance or abstract existence or HDE bc he can't even interact with the concept to begin with

But this said concept manipulation is dependent, so it's bound to the area if affects, right? So shouldn't a 4D AP character punch right through it because it's a 3D concept?

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

the person with 4-D AP nukes the cosmology and wins against the 3-D CM user

First of all, this is AP, not DC. So if the character interacts with the conceptual defense the 3D user has, can he just shatter through it?
Second of all, wouldn't destroying the cosmology destroy the 4D AP user as well?

 

[Voidnether]

The character with the conceptual defense gets one-shotted, ggs

 

[Lloydblitzed]

First of all, this is AP, not DC. So if the character interacts with the conceptual defense the 3D user has, can he just shatter through it?

He can't

Second of all, wouldn't destroying the cosmology destroy the 4D AP user as well?

He can survive it throught his 4D Dura

 

[Vietthai96]

These two things is unrelated, context is needed, if it is conceptual defense/invulnerability being 3D, then 4D AP or hax just punch right through it, doesn't matter if it is concept type 1, 2 or 3.

If it is other kinds of conceptual hax, then they are not going to interact with each others, thus this question is irrelevant

No offense but this question is vague so it hard for people to pinpoint the actual problem

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

These two things is unrelated, context is needed, if it is conceptual defense/invulnerability being 3D, then 4D AP or hax just punch right through it, doesn't matter if it is concept type 1, 2 or 3.

If it is other kinds of conceptual hax, then they are not going to interact with each others, thus this question is irrelevant

No offense but this question is vague so it hard for people to pinpoint the actual problem

Hopefully this answers it a bit, but essentially, this conceptual defense is NOT made up of real spatial coordinates, it's purely made up of abstract parameters with a different metric of space entirely. So, interacting with normal space does NOT bypass this conceptual defense. This should include spatial coordinates like 4D, 5D, etc.. You would need to interact with the metrics of that space, purely abstract spaces. However, at the same time, this is stemming from how this said structure of why this defense is entirely functioning like this is because of the user's control over the concept. This said concept, which, as I said, is dependent. It's area of influence is over a 3D verse. So, therefore, would this fall under the umbrella of the former or latter?

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

bump

 

[Vietthai96]

Hopefully this answers it a bit, but essentially, this conceptual defense is NOT made up of real spatial coordinates, it's purely made up of abstract parameters with a different metric of space entirely. So, interacting with normal space does NOT bypass this conceptual defense. This should include spatial coordinates like 4D, 5D, etc.. You would need to interact with the metrics of that space, purely abstract spaces. However, at the same time, this is stemming from how this said structure of why this defense is entirely functioning like this is because of the user's control over the concept. This said concept, which, as I said, is dependent. It's area of influence is over a 3D verse. So, therefore, would this fall under the umbrella of the former or latter?

Then this isn't conceptual defense, but a conceptual hax that manipulate space which i used for defensive purpose which belong to second situation i said above, they not going to interact with each other at all so having concept type is irrelevant

 

[Voidnether]

Then this isn't conceptual defense, but a conceptual hax that manipulate space which i used for defensive purpose which belong to second situation i said above, they not going to interact with each other at all so having concept type is irrelevant

That same logic is basically just saying "All spaces are the same no matter in whatever dimension they are, Infinity is omnipresent in all spaces thus dimensional axis should not matter in the slightest" despite the fact how absurd and broken smurf hax is on this wiki, honestly if there are no statements about that concept literally dimensionless and dimensional axis doesn't matter. Ggs, but considering how the OP worded it, there's no such statements like that I assume.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

Then this isn't conceptual defense, but a conceptual hax that manipulate space which i used for defensive purpose which belong to second situation i said above, they not going to interact with each other at all so having concept type is irrelevant

Correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently, this character is making a space with qualities different than average space by manipulating its concept, and so, regardless of it's area of effect, the 4D AP character has to manipulate a space with those qualities to bypass it?

 

[Vietthai96]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but apparently, this character is making a space with qualities different than average space by manipulating its concept, and so, regardless of it's area of effect, the 4D AP character has to manipulate a space with those qualities to bypass it?

No, manipulating a space by manipulating its concept doesn't really matter, in order for the space to defense against the attack, it need to interact with the attack, assume this case the attack is purely physical attack, so the space in question must be physical to be able to interact and defend against the attack, so the problem is, what is the difference in qualities of the space in question??, a detailed feat is needed

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

in order for the space to defense against the attack, it need to interact with the attack,

But like, by definition, physical space attacks can't interact with this conceptual defense? Meaning physical based attacks won't effect the conceptual hax because it has different properties to what physical space has, and you have to interact with that space to affect it? And, isn't it accepted that conceptual based defenses can't be interacted by pure physical means because of their structure being completely different?

what is the difference in qualities of the space in question??,

Different inner products, different mathematical formulas that make it up, different parameters, irregular topology -- all of these make it up.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

the person with 4-D AP nukes the cosmology and wins against the 3-D CM user

Me when AP ≠ DC: