Reid Astrea vs Accelerator

[FantaRin_The_First]

Which doesn't really matter given the Wings don't require the signal from the choker as we see when he first awakens them (and in his manga there was a pretty similar case).

IIRC, Kihara explicitly noticed that Accelerator didn't have his reflection on what that happened since he had s... smoke??? (mind is blanking on the word, but I am 100% it starts with an 's') all over his body since a grenade exploded on him prior to him awakening his wings.

From there, Accelerator BFR-ing Kihara to space was with an "unknown power" (i.e, a form of telesma) that didn't use his Esper power. Same thing happened in the Accelerator manga, sorta, Accelerator blacked out due to his choker running out of power, awoken to his wings (briefly), and pushed an energy ball into space with likely the same "unknown power" that BFR-ed Kihara into space.

More importantly... what about Puzzle. Reid has NPI. EE + Regen Negation (High Mid) + Concept Manip Type 2. He just needs to swing his sword and unleash an AoE attack that combines all of what I said previously. Puzzle likely dies if she gets caught by it since Low Godly isn't enough to regen from EE, if I am not mistaken. If Puzzle dies, Accelerator may (or may not) be unable to access his Plat Wings-or this might just cause Accel to go berserk and use his Black Wings on the spot and then go for his long-ranged vector manip since that is the only time he actually used long-ranged vector manip in-character and in-canon. GG Accel, then, IG.

 

[XDragnoir]

IIRC, Kihara explicitly noticed that Accelerator didn't have his reflection on what that happened since he had s... smoke??? (mind is blanking on the word, but I am 100% it starts with an 's') all over his body since a grenade exploded on him prior to him awakening his wings.

The word you want is probably "soot", after reading it again.

From there, Accelerator BFR-ing Kihara to space was with an "unknown power" (i.e, a form of telesma) that didn't use his Esper power. Same thing happened in the Accelerator manga, sorta, Accelerator blacked out due to his choker running out of power, awoken to his wings (briefly), and pushed an energy ball into space with likely the same "unknown power" that BFR-ed Kihara into space.

The scene on his manga really doesn't imply any kind of unknown power being at play IIRC, not anything other than the his vectors which are being powered by his Wings, which we know they do from his fight with Kakine.

And regardless, this "unknown power" would still be more than enough to kill Reid, I see no reason for him to survive it.

More importantly... what about Puzzle. Reid has NPI. EE + Regen Negation (High Mid) + Concept Manip Type 2. He just needs to swing his sword and unleash an AoE attack that combines all of what I said previously. Puzzle likely dies if she gets caught by it since Low Godly isn't enough to regen from EE, if I am not mistaken.

Depends on the EE, if it has erased souls then yeah, so the question is, is there evidence that Reid can EE souls? His profile doesn't really elaborate much on his EE.

If Puzzle dies, Accelerator may (or may not) be unable to access his Plat Wings-or this might just cause Accel to go berserk and use his Black Wings on the spot and then go for his long-ranged vector manip since that is the only time he actually used long-ranged vector manip in-character and in-canon. GG Accel, then, IG.

I mean, yeah, BW would also be an wincon, do we have any idea if PW is reliant on Qliphah tho? She definitely helped him reach it, but iirc she "inserted" the knowledge of Tarot that he used alongside Clonoth to create PW, so her role on it was completed and doesn't really need to be "redone" each time he enters PW, the inserted knowledge should simply stay with him.

Also, the Soul Removal stuff is another example of his ranged hax, plus that strange scene in OT19.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

snip

Noir.

You and I both know that Accelerator has done nothing but sit in a jailcell since GT started nor do we get any explanation of what Accelerator's Plat Wing actually do or what the deal between Qliphah and it 'sides his astral projection thingy. But for the sake of simplicity, let's assume Qliphah being down (for even a little bit) likely hampers the Plat Wings to some unknown degree.

... Before I forgot, I wanna say that weird moment in OT19 is the only actual time Accelerator did such a thing, so it isn't too much of a big factor-or at the very least, he wouldn't think of doing whatever he did there as his first move unless given a good reason.

Back onto the Black Wings and Qliphah. Honestly, the latter likely doesn't even need to be killed for the Black Wings to potentially come into play-Accelerator reacts pretty badly when the people he cares about are hurt and he cares for Qliphah quite a lot, so Reid doing too much damage onto her, even if it isn't fatal damage, might just be the trigger for Black Wings GG.

... Or maybe the Soul Project via Plat Wing could work too? Like Reid doesn't resist it, but I don't think Accelerator would immediately think to rip Reid's soul from his body as a first move without engaging with his normal stuff first, i.e, vector-infused H2H, projectiles and wind manip.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

idk what yall are yapping about but Reids EE does erase the Od which is just a more complex soul

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Guess that means Qliphah just dies then... Which likely triggers Accelerator to transform into his Black Wings state... whose more willing to telekinetically force Reid onto the ground with his Immesurable Lifting Strength and rip off his limbs with invisible force from there, I suppose.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Guess that means Qliphah just dies then... Which likely triggers Accelerator to transform into his Black Wings state... whose more willing to telekinetically force Reid onto the ground with his Immesurable Lifting Strength and rip off his limbs with invisible force from there, I suppose.

if its an instant loss then Reid wont do it due to his Godly instinct btw

 

[Zabazab]

Because doing things without sufficient feats to back it up is exactly how VSBW works, definitely.

I just gave you 7 scans of characters doing things by sheer guesswork, including instantly identifying how unseen complex hax abilities work.

It can't be done by "anyone", you need actual understanding of the math and the physics behind his powers at a minimum and definitely some level of understanding about the reality warping nature of it.

Why though? Is it an ability that suddenly behaves differently when you know about its details?

 

[XDragnoir]

You and I both know that Accelerator has done nothing but sit in a jailcell since GT started nor do we get any explanation of what Accelerator's Plat Wing actually do or what the deal between Qliphah and it 'sides his astral projection thingy. But for the sake of simplicity, let's assume Qliphah being down (for even a little bit) likely hampers the Plat Wings to some unknown degree.

And what does any of that have to do with the point? Qliphah isn't implied to be an actual piece to sustain PW as I explained, she was a key to achieve it, which is a different topic.

... Before I forgot, I wanna say that weird moment in OT19 is the only actual time Accelerator did such a thing, so it isn't too much of a big factor-or at the very least, he wouldn't think of doing whatever he did there as his first move unless given a good reason.

The moment is just more evidence for the claim that he can affect things without touching it directly, nothing more nothing less.

Back onto the Black Wings and Qliphah. Honestly, the latter likely doesn't even need to be killed for the Black Wings to potentially come into play-Accelerator reacts pretty badly when the people he cares about are hurt and he cares for Qliphah quite a lot, so Reid doing too much damage onto her, even if it isn't fatal damage, might just be the trigger for Black Wings GG.

... Or maybe the Soul Project via Plat Wing could work too? Like Reid doesn't resist it, but I don't think Accelerator would immediately think to rip Reid's soul from his body as a first move without engaging with his normal stuff first, i.e, vector-infused H2H, projectiles and wind manip.

Agree on the BW part.

As for the rest, yeah, Accel doesn't pull that at the start, but I don't think he would just carelessly engage on H2H like you're implying, current Accel has been way more of a strategist than his previous moments, he also learnt with Coronzon to not simply engage on H2H when not having full knowledge of the other side and it's been volumes since he learnt to not think of his vector shield as unbeatable, the moment Reid starts to pull anything more impressive than what Accel is used to in his verse is the same moment Accel will see him as a treat he has to end quickly.

 

[XDragnoir]

I just gave you 7 scans of characters doing things by sheer guesswork, including instantly identifying how unseen complex hax abilities work.

I think I probably overlooked some then, I only read 2 (one with Cecilus and someone's Authority and one about an immaterial connection).

But still, how complex exactly are we talking about? Again, Accel does unconscious calcs that reality warp matter on macro quantum scale based on a list of filters of what can and can't go through his shield (like sound and light up to certain levels).

As Fanta explained before, someone who tried to pull it without having the full knowledge about his calc patterns didn't go through.

Why though? Is it an ability that suddenly behaves differently when you know about its details?

I don't understand your question, but as I said above, if you don't have knowledge about how Accel thinks, you can't pull it perfectly.

 

[Robo432343]

I just gave you 7 scans of characters doing things by sheer guesswork, including instantly identifying how unseen complex hax abilities work.

wouldn't that only apply to their own verse??

 

[Zabazab]

Snip

I think he would squint at Accel and then succeed first-try.

wouldn't that only apply to their own verse??

I've heard this a few times but I find the line of logic rather baffling. Why does an ability existing in a verse matter when they don't even know about the ability in their own verse? They're just guessing what an ability does or what they should do based on intuition, not accessing a database of abilities in their series.

 

[XDragnoir]

I think he would squint at Accel and then succeed first-try.

I don't care about what you think, I care about what you can prove.

I've heard this a few times but I find the line of logic rather baffling. Why does an ability existing in a verse matter when they don't even know about the ability in their own verse? They're just guessing what an ability does or what they should do based on intuition, not accessing a database of abilities in their series.

He is aware of other abilities in his verse, isn't he? He is aware of how and what can be created in his verse, Accelerator himself could guess 90% of how a teleporters' ability worked based on one or two instances of him using it, I am not gonna say he will find out how completely unrelated stuff works if there isn't an equivalent in his verse.

Has Reid ever found out which types of math calculations someone was doing by looking at their face inside a school or anything like this? This is not enough to deal with Accel by a whole lot, but bringing a bunch of completely unrelated stuff isn't helping your argument.

Like, this is the first I've to actually explain to someone that a character needs feats to actually do stuff and not "it always works", what a bullshit.

 

[Doggo]

Reid would probably figure out the counter but not quickly. Accelerator is still operating in a very different power system than what he is use to and his power literally requires complex calculations that will give a supercomputer a headache.

Kihara only knew the counter because he was the one who cultivated Accels power, even then it took him years to master it. The assassin who learned it still failed to touch Accel

I highly doubt Reid is gonna know the counter just by looking at him once. Maybe after several seconds but not instantly.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

snip

Nah.

“I remember that Kihara Amata once used the technique of drawing back his fist an instant before receiving impact to break through the reflection obstacle.”

“!?”

The voice came from his blind spot, along with a fist.

Accelerator flew backwards in a hurry.

“Also, Kakine Teitoku seemed to have used materials that don’t exist in this world to create vectors that don’t exist in this world.”

However, the voice and fist followed closely after him.

Sugitani used footwork beyond the limits of a human that was almost like sliding to keep himself in the same distance between him and Accelerator.

After that, a ‘boom’ rang out.

Accelerator’s face was feeling some numbing pain, while Sugitani jumped out of the ring for the first time in this battle.

“So that’s it.”

Sugitani shook his wrist.

It seemed to have sprained, the joints had swelled up a lot.

“Those special exceptions are all results of their own specialized fields. Just by observing them I can’t perfectly recreate their techniques.”

Even so, to have struck Accelerator’s head without any abilities needed top level skills. For any normal grunt that attacked, it wouldn’t just stop at a swollen hand, they would be hurt to the extent of losing control of their own blood stream and have their internal organs shattered.

“You scumbag,” - OT19 Chapter Part 8

Sugitani did, in fact, land a punch.

Man, this is making it seem like ToAru has the same reading comprehension issue that JJK and CSM is facing atm. Jk, jk.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I don't care about what you think, I care about what you can prove.


He is aware of other abilities in his verse, isn't he? He is aware of how and what can be created in his verse, Accelerator himself could guess 90% of how a teleporters' ability worked based on one or two instances of him using it, I am not gonna say he will find out how completely unrelated stuff works if there isn't an equivalent in his verse.

Has Reid ever found out which types of math calculations someone was doing by looking at their face inside a school or anything like this? This is not enough to deal with Accel by a whole lot, but bringing a bunch of completely unrelated stuff isn't helping your argument.

Like, this is the first I've to actually explain to someone that a character needs feats to actually do stuff and not "it always works", what a bullshit.

i think we have already went over this
and yeah, he knows jack shit about the opponents abilities because authorities are literally random ass powers
One can free you from all concepts, laws and space-time while the same factor can give you nigh omniscience or just a power to share your burdens with the people you love
There isnt really any connection to them at all and Reid literally states in the scan that earlier that he simply does not care what his opponent's power is
You also haven't really given a proper arguement aside from "no he cant do that!"

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Looking at it more clearly, Sugitani really did just watched Kihara do his tech and decided to see if he could replicate it through sheer skill. And it worked, for the most part.

So Reid's godly skill and instincts (which are vastly superior to any showing of skill that ToAru has showed so far) paired with the fact that he can see white lines that tell him the most optimal path to victory likely leads him in discovering this weakness right off the bat.

 

[XDragnoir]

You also haven't really given a proper arguement aside from "no he cant do that!"

Because burden is on you not on me, you have to prove he can effectively mind read someone to know how their brain calculates shit.

 

[XDragnoir]

Looking at it more clearly, Sugitani really did just watched Kihara do his tech and decided to see if he could replicate it through sheer skill. And it worked, for the most part.

So Reid's godly skill and instincts (which are vastly superior to any showing of skill that ToAru has showed so far) paired with the fact that he can see white lines that tell him the most optimal path to victory likely leads him in discovering this weakness right off the bat.

If Reid ever sees Amata using the Kihara Counter, sure, he won't that here tho.

 

[Zabazab]

He is aware of other abilities in his verse, isn't he?

Nah, he has zero interest in anything beyond himself, and zero knowledge of anything beyond martial arts. When faced with a magical black hole, his response is "The hell? It's just air. Air's everywhere, as if it could stop me." and then proceeds to cut through its dimensions with a pair of chopsticks. Authorities in particular are always unique abilities that manifest based on a user's desires, with few– if any– restrictions on what they can be.

Even if he didn't succeed first-try, and either broke his arm or even had it blown off in his first attempt, he'd absolutely succeed the second time. With his superhuman intuition, he just "knows the right answer."

 

[XDragnoir]

Nah, he has zero interest in anything beyond himself, and zero knowledge of anything beyond martial arts. When faced with a magical black hole, his response is "The hell? It's just air. Air's everywhere, as if it could stop me." and then proceeds to cut through its dimensions with a pair of chopsticks. Authorities in particular are always unique abilities that manifest based on a user's desires, with few– if any– restrictions on what they can be.

All of which are completely different from what Accel does...

And actually, what exactly does he do with his intuition exactly? "Oh, it's a black hole, I will slash it" or something alone these lines? I get he finds out what some crazy stuff can do, but to what extent does he find its flaws and to what extent has he ever done anything more than complex than, for example, avoiding the ability and/or cutting it?

Even if he didn't succeed first-try, and either broke his arm or even had it blown off in his first attempt, he'd absolutely succeed the second time. With his superhuman intuition, he just "knows the right answer."

If he doesn't succeed on the first try Accel can change the patterns, meaning he would need another two tries to actually pull it off (and the cycle would repeat), which is as I said before why Amata could pull it off, he literally had knowledge on how Accel thinks to the point he knew what Accel would change in the calc patterns.

Also, what do you even think Accel would do that you are still trying to debate this BS point? He won't get to find out about the Kihara Counter to begin with and he definitely won't have time to even try to pull it, as soon as Accel gets a slight hit Reid will die, with or without Wings.

 

[SeijiSetto]

That. and due to how speed equal works, Reid will still have his Massively Hypersonic+ travel speed, so he can move much further distances away from Accel and he'll have a hard time catching up. Which helps Reid in waiting for Accelerator to time-out win-con, I suppose.

not how it works, just for the record.
the page says

The combat speed of that faster character (Reid here, baseline FTL is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character (Accel, Sub-Rel?). Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight, etc.

Reid's travel speed is ~257x slower than his combat speed, whereas Accel doesn't have a specified travel speed (so I guess the assumption is that they're the same? iunno. put travel speed ratings on profiles.)
he doesn't get to KEEP it, all other speeds are reduced just as much.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

not how it works, just for the record.
the page says

Reid's travel speed is ~257x slower than his combat speed, whereas Accel doesn't have a specified travel speed (so I guess the assumption is that they're the same? iunno. put travel speed ratings on profiles.)
he doesn't get to KEEP it, all other speeds are reduced just as much.

Thanks, but I already know, lol.

Got anything to say here for Reid or did Satella and Zab say everything that needs to be said?

 

[SeijiSetto]

Thanks, but I already know, lol.

i missed like the entire latter half of the first page i'm so smart

anyway naught really to add. reid's skill being bullshit has already been said multiple times in different ways by different people.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

i missed like the entire latter half of the first page i'm so smart

anyway naught really to add. reid's skill being bullshit has already been said multiple times in different ways by different people.

You think Reid could figure the trick to Accelerator's reflection?

As per canon;

“I remember that Kihara Amata once used the technique of drawing back his fist an instant before receiving impact to break through the reflection obstacle.”

“!?”

The voice came from his blind spot, along with a fist.

Accelerator flew backwards in a hurry.

“Also, Kakine Teitoku seemed to have used materials that don’t exist in this world to create vectors that don’t exist in this world.”

However, the voice and fist followed closely after him.

Sugitani used footwork beyond the limits of a human that was almost like sliding to keep himself in the same distance between him and Accelerator.

After that, a ‘boom’ rang out.

Accelerator’s face was feeling some numbing pain, while Sugitani jumped out of the ring for the first time in this battle.

“So that’s it.”

Sugitani shook his wrist.

It seemed to have sprained, the joints had swelled up a lot.

“Those special exceptions are all results of their own specialized fields. Just by observing them I can’t perfectly recreate their techniques.”

Even so, to have struck Accelerator’s head without any abilities needed top level skills. For any normal grunt that attacked, it wouldn’t just stop at a swollen hand, they would be hurt to the extent of losing control of their own blood stream and have their internal organs shattered.

“You scumbag,” - OT19 Chapter Part 8

A person that only has secondhand knowledge of the "Kihara technique", i.e, pulling back their fist at the last moment to make Accel's reflection hit him, and managed to do this. ToAru's skill peps are on the level of IRL martial artist w/some anime bull thrown into but still vastly inferior to Re:Zero's skill slop and Reid has enough bullshit that he can likely have this idea come to him.

Mind you this person in the text failed to do the trick safely but their blow itself still managed to connect and harm Accelerator and they could use their skill to reduce the damage he received from Accelerator's reflection to only a sprained hand.

 

[Robo432343]

@SatellaTheWoE nice pfp vro

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

You think Reid could figure the trick to Accelerator's reflection?

As per canon;


A person that only has secondhand knowledge of the "Kihara technique", i.e, pulling back their fist at the last moment to make Accel's reflection hit him, and managed to do this. ToAru's skill peps are on the level of IRL martial artist w/some anime bull thrown into but still vastly inferior to Re:Zero's skill slop and Reid has enough bullshit that he can likely have this idea come to him.

Mind you this person in the text failed to do the trick safely but their blow itself still managed to connect and harm Accelerator and they could use their skill to reduce the damage he received from Accelerator's reflection to only a sprained hand.

Absolutely, the godly intuition literally exists to tell him what to do and you then stack the fact that he would know EXACTLY how to one shot him (as seen with Theresia's blessing) and it's joever

@SatellaTheWoE nice pfp vro

Thanks robot!

 

[XDragnoir]

Absolutely, the godly intuition literally exists to tell him what to do and you then stack the fact that he would know EXACTLY how to one shot him (as seen with Theresia's blessing) and it's joever

The intuition no one has provided meaningful feats up until now?

ToAru's skill peps are on the level of IRL martial artist w/some anime bull thrown into but still vastly inferior to Re:Zero's skill slop

Also, this is bullshit, the Kihara Counter is by itself way beyond everything any IRL human can do, you need movement precision in the micrometer range or lower and reactions in the nanoseconds, otherwise you'll just not even pull it.

Also, the KC is definitely the highest level of skill in the series, but you think Toaru's skill is really that low? Like, what? Yuiitsu and Amata have their shockwave strikes which Salome could copy after seeing it, Kagun is a skill god, etc.

I don't care about debating skill because skill isn't winning this fight for either side (and Accel isn't combat skilled), but you're just downplaying the verse at this point and that's completely stupid.

 

[Vietthai96]

Absolutely, the godly intuition literally exists to tell him what to do and you then stack the fact that he would know EXACTLY how to one shot him

Don't really care about this match, but this is NLF, he facing a guy with a power that is completely alien to his world, you nees to prove his intuition allow him to do such a thing. Theresia blessing is good and all, but blessing is common thing in Re:Zero

 

[Zabazab]

The intuition no one has provided meaningful feats up until now?

Do you not consider the scans I sent meaningful?

• Reid deciding to cut an invisible, immaterial connection between to people's souls which he couldn't perceive, with his intuition.
• Reinhard (inferior to Reid) being able to score 100% on a given test just by sheer intuition, even if it isn't multiple choice.
• Cecilus (inferior to Reid) being able to– through sheer guesswork– understand how Al's Authority works despite its effect being imperceptible to all but Al, so mysterious that We The Readers don't know the details, beyond it manipulating time under certain conditions to ensure Al a certain victory.
• Cecilus, based on intuition, knew that he shouldn't kill too many Zombies, despite having no clue at all about the fact thar defeating too many would cause the nation's lands' to become barren.
• Cecilus dodging invisible sniper fire from an invisible, top-class sniper from kilometers away and from every possible angle in three dimensions– by just guesswork.
• Elsa (vastly, vastly inferior to Reid) managing to accurately hit targets with throwing knives despite having her senses sealed away by magic, and then dodging an attack that blew away the room she was in, again by intuition as her senses were sealed.
• Cecilus and his equal, Halibel, dodging rain that was secretly a deadly trap that would turn into blades upon running down their skin, avoiding it by just instinctive intuition.

Like, these guys don't know anything about abilities like magic or Authorities (which are always unique) in their own verse. An ability from another verse– which a guy could and did bypass with just skill– isn't any different in this regard.

Theresia blessing is good and all, but blessing is common thing in Re:Zero

Reid doesn't have the Divine Protection of the Sword Saint.

 

[Vietthai96]

Do you not consider the scans I sent meaningful?

• Reid deciding to cut an invisible, immaterial connection between to people's souls which he couldn't perceive, with his intuition.
• Reinhard (inferior to Reid) being able to score 100% on a given test just by sheer intuition, even if it isn't multiple choice.
• Cecilus (inferior to Reid) being able to– through sheer guesswork– understand how Al's Authority works despite its effect being imperceptible to all but Al, so mysterious that We The Readers don't know the details, beyond it manipulating time under certain conditions to ensure Al a certain victory.
• Cecilus, based on intuition, knew that he shouldn't kill too many Zombies, despite having no clue at all about the fact thar defeating too many would cause the nation's lands' to become barren.
• Cecilus dodging invisible sniper fire from an invisible, top-class sniper from kilometers away and from every possible angle in three dimensions– by just guesswork.
• Elsa (vastly, vastly inferior to Reid) managing to accurately hit targets with throwing knives despite having her senses sealed away by magic, and then dodging an attack that blew away the room she was in, again by intuition as her senses were sealed.
• Cecilus and his equal, Halibel, dodging rain that was secretly a deadly trap that would turn into blades upon running down their skin, avoiding it by just instinctive intuition.

Like, these guys don't know anything about abilities like magic or Authorities (which are always unique) in their own verse. An ability from another verse– which a guy could and did bypass with just skill– isn't any different in this regard.


Reid doesn't have the Divine Protection of the Sword Saint.

1. To be fair, i don't disregard of Reid skills, but these kind of feats is completely different from trying to figured out a complex vector computing ability shit that, again, i'm gonna repeat, is completely alien to him and his world, let alone a 11D shit.....

2. Eh, what i mean is blessing is a common power and is known in Re:Zero world, not mean Reid had it

 

[XDragnoir]

Do you not consider the scans I sent meaningful?

• Reid deciding to cut an invisible, immaterial connection between to people's souls which he couldn't perceive, with his intuition.

There's no immaterial connection here to find out (well, technically there is but it has nothing to do with the Kihara Counter at all).

• Reinhard (inferior to Reid) being able to score 100% on a given test just by sheer intuition, even if it isn't multiple choice.

Accel isn't gonna ask him about the KC nor explain it to him, so whatever.

• Cecilus (inferior to Reid) being able to– through sheer guesswork– understand how Al's Authority works despite its effect being imperceptible to all but Al, so mysterious that We The Readers don't know the details, beyond it manipulating time under certain conditions to ensure Al a certain victory.

Accel's reflection does not work even remotely, and the damn quote itself says he guessed it "mostly correctly", which isn't enough to deal with Accel, he needs to be 100% correct and this quote shows that even in-verse it's not a perfect thing.

• Cecilus, based on intuition, knew that he shouldn't kill too many Zombies, despite having no clue at all about the fact thar defeating too many would cause the nation's lands' to become barren.

Again, not even close to what Accel does and requires his opponents to do.

• Cecilus dodging invisible sniper fire from an invisible, top-class sniper from kilometers away and from every possible angle in three dimensions– by just guesswork.

Same as above.

• Elsa (vastly, vastly inferior to Reid) managing to accurately hit targets with throwing knives despite having her senses sealed away by magic, and then dodging an attack that blew away the room she was in, again by intuition as her senses were sealed.

Same, again.

Damn, these last 2 weren't even about understanding the nature of some magic ability or whatever, rather they were hitting/evading attacks in situations normal people wouldn't be able to... which is just so outside what you need to deal with Accel that I am confused by you actually thinking this is meaningful for this fight.

• Cecilus and his equal, Halibel, dodging rain that was secretly a deadly trap that would turn into blades upon running down their skin, avoiding it by just instinctive intuition.

This one is back on the topic of understanding stuff... but this just seems like a danger sense? Like, were they even effectively aware of what the rain would do or they just knew the rain was trouble? Because if it's the latter this also won't help, knowing Accel and his shield are to be avoid isn't helping him here.

Like, these guys don't know anything about abilities like magic or Authorities (which are always unique) in their own verse.

Cool, I bet they know even less about stuff that does not exist in their verse.

Like, legitimate question, were they asleep for hundreds of years and only found out about the existence of magic in the scenes you sent or something similar? Because afaik all of these characters are like, top tiers of the verse.

An ability from another verse– which a guy could and did bypass with just skill– isn't any different in this regard.

I don't get your point, first you're talking like skill in Rezero was universally agreed to be able to do everything other verses can do through skill.

Second, you're for some reason ignoring the fact it's not simply having skill that allows you to do this, the two characters who did it both had knowledge of what Accel's powers were beforehand, of these two, the one who could pull it perfectly pretty much made Accelerator be the way he is including his powers, he had deep knowledge about the way Accel thought to the point he knew how Accel would change the calc patterns, stuff that literally only happens inside of his head and that gives no warning when it was actually changed.

 

[MasterOwOgay]

snip

snip

I think at this point you are just stonewalling
voting Reid for Zab and Sat's reasons

 

[Zabazab]

I think at this point you are just stonewalling
voting Reid for Zab and Sat's reasons

I love debating and then not actually voting

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I love debating and then not actually voting

I think at this point you are just stonewalling
voting Reid for Zab and Sat's reasons

I hate you both

 

[Vietthai96]

I think at this point you are just stonewalling
voting Reid for Zab and Sat's reasons

I don't know you are joking or not, but i only made like 2 comments, and they are my opinions regarding the matter, i not even preventing anyone from voting, like, i just posted my opinion, i don't know why it is stonewalling

 

[Robo432343]

I think at this point you are just stonewalling

bro don't accuse people of stonewalling with 0 evidence like that
they were actually having a good debate

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

bro don't accuse people of stonewalling with 0 evidence like that
they were actually having a good debate

I think he was referring to the other dude who kept denying Godly intuition to be real
Viethai catching stray bullets

 

[XDragnoir]

I think at this point you are just stonewalling
voting Reid for Zab and Sat's reasons

I am not stonewalling, I am debunking the BS that's being thrown around.

I think he was referring to the other dude who kept denying Godly intuition to be real
Viethai catching stray bullets

Nor am I denying anything, actually read wtf I've said so far.

 

[Robo432343]

who kept denying Godly intuition to be real

where????

 

[MasterOwOgay]

womp womp