Ben 10 Cosmology simple Upgrade nvm

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Nvm

 

[Mndks]

wow

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I thought he already had HDE, anyway I agree for now.

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

By using space beyond here , you stole my chance of being hero but ok

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

Nutral for now

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Nutral for now

Neutral for everything?

 

[NXCHT.66]

following

 

[Hellformer]

Neutral for space beyond rest seems fine

 

[Hellformer]

Alien X HDE​

Alien X is rated in at least 4-D in HDE but they can upgrade to at least 5-D and possibly higher and I will explain this: that Celestialsapens live in the Forge of Creation, and 3-D beings they don't have the awareness to be aware of his existence, even Gwen, who has the awareness to be aware of cosmic mana, which is Multi-Dimensional and the energy of the Universe

and as he lives outside space-time and the multiverse
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1249463101020176489/oe5uydqkupt61_1.png?ex=666764b1&is=66661331&hm=20768d9036dd06b301f87e6564a7b793ba922ec3de3ff37b5c37f6f83e608be9&
stated to be transcends the omniversal plane of existence

also stated to be quantitative superiority space-time continuums (using Twitter statements to support context)
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1249463877603692735/IMG_20240506_110702_480-1-1.jpg?ex=6667656a&is=666613ea&hm=617e1a04168362c25332e52fb9092a30b96221d974bac8d827a5907cbc133ce6&
Also Space beyond is the way to Forge of Creation where Universes just looks like faint glow or a star.
It shows that they perceive them as fiction or transcending space and time in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is qualitatively superior to the spacetime.
So Alien X should be upgrade HDE to at least 5-D and possibly higher like this

The omniverse has a 1-B rating on the cosmology page so technically you're arguing for 26-D existence. There's another thread going on for proving that Annihilarrgh is solid 1-B and since Alien X created it with his pocket dimension, he should have 26-D existence.

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

I agree with everything

 

[Quintessence_PE]

Disagree with 26D HDE (too lazy to write about the rest)

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Disagree with 26D HDE (too lazy to write about the rest)

And 5D HDE?

 

[NXCHT.66]

Dimensions

The Space Beyond

Abilities and Upgrade

looks alright.

Alien X HDE

Neutral (learning towards agree)

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Bump

 

[Georredannea15]

I don't agree with 5-D. Spaces of the inclusive type don't give you a dimensional jump, they have already been revised and I have the same opinion about HDE, it has been opened before, but there is nothing for 26-D HDE, because at the moment HDE is given only “according to geometric axes”

Dude, calling something “space beyond” is not enough to give it extra dimensionality.

 

[ABSOLUTE-ABSTRACT-KING]

Neutral for everything?

No
Agree with this :

Abilities and Upgrade
Paradox with Chrono Navigator should be have Causality Manipulation (via Existence Erasure, with Chrono Navigator, a device capable of destroying all of existence, which includes all time and causality)
Charmcaster with Alpha Rune upgrade to Low 2-C (Well Charmcaster with Alpha Rune is rated High 3-A but it should be Low 2-C because Alpha Rune can gives control the entire Ledgerdomain which has different time and space and is one of the Alternate Dimensions we also know that without Alpha Rune the entire Ledgerdomain would falls apart)

 

[Quasar002]

I agree with almost everything. I'm neutral regarding the HDE.

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

I don't agree with 5-D. Spaces of the inclusive type don't give you a dimensional jump, they have already been revised and I have the same opinion about HDE, it has been opened before, but there is nothing for 26-D HDE, because at the moment HDE is given only “according to geometric axes”

Dude, calling something “space beyond” is not enough to give it extra dimensionality.

I didn't mean that Space Beyond is Spaces of the inclusive type. It cannot be reached Space Beyond, even Hyperspace mechanics cannot reach Space Beyond. Space Beyond also separates Universes from each other. It has been mentioned several times that Space Beyond has infinite size (considering it contains an infinite multiverse). Since each Universes in Ben 10 are 2-A, this would the put the Space Beyond to Low 1-C as it also allows to travel inside the space between Universes, and fufill these standarts

 

[Georredannea15]

I didn't mean that Space Beyond is Spaces of the inclusive type. It cannot be reached Space Beyond, even Hyperspace mechanics cannot reach Space Beyond. Space Beyond also separates Universes from each other. It has been mentioned several times that Space Beyond has infinite size (considering it contains an infinite multiverse). Since each Universes in Ben 10 are 2-A, this would the put the Space Beyond to Low 1-C as it also allows to travel inside the space between Universes, and fufill these standarts

It only means there are 5th axis, it's not mean Low 1-C.

For Low 1-C, you should prove that this 5th axis is infinite (so 5-D volume is infinite)

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

For Low 1-C, you should prove that this 5th axis is infinite (so 5-D volume is infinite)

It is proven in Ben 10 Cosmology that Space Beyond has infinite and is also larger than The Universes (He sees Universes just looks like faint glow or a star) so it must be higher than infinite because The Universe has infinite space so it must also be infinite and it also contains the multiverse as an infinitesimal part of itself

 

[Hellformer]

Basically you can go with each universe branching into further infinite universes and then there being an infinite sets of such branching universes basically an uncountably infinite amount of 2-A structures together being held by space beyond hence qualifies for Low 1-C

 

[Electronic74947]

I know some will think this is an upgrade for The Timestream but it's an upgrade for Space Beyond, The Universe and Alien X HDE.

Dimensions​

In Ben 10 cosmology, All Dimensions has 3-D space and the Dimensions are considered High 3-A (except Null Void, Rex Dimension, Ben Dimension) but I will prove that All Dimensions are Low 2-C (4-D space):
Many times are mentioned that Dimensions are Alternate/Parallel Dimensions. As Derrick J Wyatt says, these Dimensions are Alternate Dimensions (he makes this clear by saying "those alternate dimensions"), as WoG says "alternate versions of the same being in different dimensions" and from this it is clear that these Dimensions are Alternate Dimensions. So All Dimensions should be parallel to Ben Dimension, Rex Dimension and Null Void which have separate space-time, so Dimensions must be upgrade to 4D space (Low 2-C).

Agree: @LuffyRuffy46307, @Hellformer, @Minos_the_Judge, @NXCHT.66, @Quasar002
Disagree:
Neutral: @OMNIVERSAL-KING

Were there any other dimensions in the verse that proved to be anything less? I don't see why you gotta upgrade something that was already accepted as low 2-C.

The Space Beyond​

"Space Beyond" is an empty space containing all the Infinite Multiverse. (Including the General Prime Universe, and other Universes with Dimensions). You can see that Space Beyond sees Universes just looks like faint glow or a star in his void

which means it should be bigger than The Universe, where the Universes are made of Dimensions, which each of them contains a his special a space-time and his infinite size, also it is separate from each other, and it is also mentioned that The Universe contains Infinite Space, which is make Space Beyond higher than it, and this Space (beyond) Separates Universes from each other and isn't accessible via General Dimension crossing devices, including Null Void gun and Hyperspace Jump Gate

which make Space Beyond a Higher-Dimensional Space, and it's not surprising because it's also called Space Beyond, which explains how it separates it.
Additional evidence for the Space Beyond being a Higher-Dimensional structure is the following:

1. It place on the same level as The Forge of Creation, which is entirely unreachable/inaccessible by anything but the Map of infinity, the inhabitants of the Forge, and Paradox himself.
2. It is a place outside the Multiverse and Dimensions as it contains them, so it must be several times higher than infinite.

So Space Beyond must be Low 1-C - Low Complex Multiverse
Agree: @LuffyRuffy46307, @Minos_the_Judge, @NXCHT.66, @Quasar002
Disagree:
Neutral: @OMNIVERSAL-KING, @Hellformer

Wasn't this used to be low complex multi due to this before the actual tier of the universes got downgraded from Multi+ to just normal multi, making it so it isn't quantitatively superior to infinite 4D.

Alien X HDE​

Alien X is rated in at least 4-D in HDE but they can upgrade to at least 5-D and possibly 26-D and I will explain this: that Celestialsapens live in the Forge of Creation, and 3-D beings they don't have the awareness to be aware of his existence, even Gwen, who has the awareness to be aware of cosmic mana, which is Multi-Dimensional and the energy of the Universe

and as he lives outside space-time and the multiverse
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1249463101020176489/oe5uydqkupt61_1.png?ex=666764b1&is=66661331&hm=20768d9036dd06b301f87e6564a7b793ba922ec3de3ff37b5c37f6f83e608be9&
stated to be transcends the omniversal plane of existence

also stated to be quantitative superiority space-time continuums (using Twitter statements to support context)
https://media.**********.net/attachments/949745569050542091/1249463877603692735/IMG_20240506_110702_480-1-1.jpg?ex=6667656a&is=666613ea&hm=617e1a04168362c25332e52fb9092a30b96221d974bac8d827a5907cbc133ce6&

This is very WoG reliant (especially since ben 10 wog gets very contradictory), needs more evidence in the show or external media iirc to upgrade it

Also Space beyond is the way to Forge of Creation where Universes just looks like faint glow or a star.
It shows that they perceive them as fiction or transcending space and time in the sense that they exist on some higher level of reality that is qualitatively superior to the spacetime.

We never see how the Forge looks compared to the rest of the cosmology, i wanna know what ben 10 show you've been watching lmfao

So Alien X should be upgrade HDE to at least 5-D and possibly 26-D like this

Agree: @LuffyRuffy46307, @Hellformer, @Minos_the_Judge
Disagree:
Neutral: @OMNIVERSAL-KING, @NXCHT.66, @Quasar002

disagree

Abilities and Upgrade
Paradox with Chrono Navigator should be have Causality Manipulation (via Existence Erasure, with Chrono Navigator, a device capable of destroying all of existence, which includes all time and causality)

I agree, but prolly not just via EE, just that if used incorrectly it can do that, should just flat out control causality , possibly even at a high level due to it being capable of destroying "causality itself"

Charmcaster with Alpha Rune upgrade to Low 2-C (Well Charmcaster with Alpha Rune is rated High 3-A but it should be Low 2-C because Alpha Rune can gives control the entire Ledgerdomain which has different time and space and is one of the Alternate Dimensions we also know that without Alpha Rune the entire Ledgerdomain would falls apart)
Agree: @LuffyRuffy46307, @Hellformer, @Minos_the_Judge, @NXCHT.66, @Quasar002, @OMNIVERSAL-KING
Disagree:
Neutral:

Agree

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Were there any other dimensions in the verse that proved to be anything less? I don't see why you gotta upgrade something that was already accepted as low 2-C.

Dimensions in Cosmology are not raised to Low 2-C they are placed in High 3-A Tier. So I'm that Dimensions should be upgrade to Low 2-C.

Wasn't this used to be low complex multi due to this before the actual tier of the universes got downgraded from Multi+ to just normal multi, making it so it isn't quantitatively superior to infinite 4D.

I think yes but I want to add more support that it is 5-D. Also The Timestream is accepted as 26D so Space Beyond could now be Low 1-C.

This is very WoG reliant (especially since ben 10 wog gets very contradictory), needs more evidence in the show or external media iirc to upgrade it

I think 5-D is more logical because The Forge of Creation has many proves to be 5-D

We never see how the Forge looks compared to the rest of the cosmology, i wanna know what ben 10 show you've been watching lmfao

It is mentioned in Ben 10 Cosmology that The Forge of Creation:

The Forge of Creation is out of sync with All time and space, disconnected from the entire fabric of existence and Timestream due to a Chronal Randomization Barrier set by Paradox. It is entirely unreachable/inaccessible by anything but the Map of infinity, the inhabitants of the Forge, and Paradox himself.

So The Forge of Creation should be higher than Hyperspace and Multi-dimensional weapons and can be said to be 5-D.

 

[Georredannea15]

It is proven in Ben 10 Cosmology that Space Beyond has infinite and is also larger than The Universes (He sees Universes just looks like faint glow or a star) so it must be higher than infinite because The Universe has infinite space so it must also be infinite and it also contains the multiverse as an infinitesimal part of itself

After the new standards this is not enough to qualify for Low 1-C, no.

You can be infinitely greater than infinity, but that still makes you infinite, not uncountable infinite. If you are still defending this "being infinitely larger than infinity means tier 1", please don't because it has been bombed too many times.

Basically you can go with each universe branching into further infinite universes and then there being an infinite sets of such branching universes basically an uncountably infinite amount of 2-A structures together being held by space beyond hence qualifies for Low 1-C

no, only infinite 2-A structures are there, which is still 2-A. Just take a look at the revisions about the new tier 1 standards

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

After the new standards this is not enough to qualify for Low 1-C, no.

You can be infinitely greater than infinity, but that still makes you infinite, not uncountable infinite. If you are still defending this "being infinitely larger than infinity means tier 1", please don't because it has been bombed too many times.

Basically the Universe as part of Space Beyond (also the Multiverse to be part of Space Beyond), and Space Beyond perceiving them as literal faint glow or a star. This proves that Space Beyond is Higher-Dimensions space.

Q: How do I determine if something is "transcendent"?​

A: They can qualify, however, if said "higher plane" is defined as having a relationship of qualitative superiority over lower realms in one way or another, such as by perceiving them as literal fiction/unreality (or being comparatively more "real" in nature), encompassing them in an infinitesimal portion of itself, residing in a higher state of being altogether, and etc.

 

[Hellformer]

no, only infinite 2-A structures are there, which is still 2-A. Just take a look at the revisions about the new tier 1 standards

Paradox: A world where Gwen found the Omnitrix, a world where Albedo turned to Alien X and was trapped motionless for nearly a year, a world where you didn't need to destroy the Omnitrix to defeat Vilgax
Ultimate Ben 10K: Etcetera
Paradox: Ad infinitum

Now look at the MCU cosmology page:

With this we can conclude that all of the uncountable infinite timelines that branched out indefinitely from the Sacred Timeline at least contain an infinite number of universes, realities and dimensions, endless possibilities where every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities, making each single branch a 2-A structure which in turn can branch out into uncountable infinite 2-A structures on its own, and so on ad infinitum with each single branch.This makes the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline along with all of its uncountable infinite branched timelines ad infinitum a Low 1-C structure.

So what I'm arguing is that each universe has 2-B possibly 2-A space time continuums via branching and there are infinite such set of universes with each branching out to uncountably infinite 2-A structure on its own, and so on ad infinitum which Professor Paradox mentioned.

 

[Electronic74947]

Dimensions in Cosmology are not raised to Low 2-C they are placed in High 3-A Tier. So I'm that Dimensions should be upgrade to Low 2-C.

Thats talking about the actual 3 dimensional space, they are low 2-c when referring to the space-time itself

I think yes but I want to add more support that it is 5-D. Also The Timestream is accepted as 26D so Space Beyond could now be Low 1-C.

The time stream being 26D is in no way related to the space beyond.

I think 5-D is more logical because The Forge of Creation has many proves to be 5-D

It being outside the universe isn't evidence of higher dimensional

It is mentioned in Ben 10 Cosmology that The Forge of Creation:

That doesn't confirm the size of it, just that it's outside the universe

So The Forge of Creation should be higher than Hyperspace and Multi-dimensional weapons and can be said to be 5-D.

Being outside the universe doesn't give you the same dimensionality as the cosmology, a good example of this is the super dragonballs, which can be found in neutral space yet aren't 4D balls.

 

[Georredannea15]

Paradox: A world where Gwen found the Omnitrix, a world where Albedo turned to Alien X and was trapped motionless for nearly a year, a world where you didn't need to destroy the Omnitrix to defeat Vilgax
Ultimate Ben 10K: Etcetera
Paradox: Ad infinitum

Now look at the MCU cosmology page:

With this we can conclude that all of the uncountable infinite timelines that branched out indefinitely from the Sacred Timeline at least contain an infinite number of universes, realities and dimensions, endless possibilities where every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities, making each single branch a 2-A structure which in turn can branch out into uncountable infinite 2-A structures on its own, and so on ad infinitum with each single branch.This makes the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline along with all of its uncountable infinite branched timelines ad infinitum a Low 1-C structure.

So what I'm arguing is that each universe has 2-B possibly 2-A space time continuums via branching and there are infinite such set of universes with each branching out to uncountably infinite 2-A structure on its own, and so on ad infinitum which Professor Paradox mentioned.

MCU was Low 1-C because each snapshot in the holy timeline (i.e. each time point) was 2-A.


Timelines being 2-A is not the same as each snapshot being 2-A because a timeline contains an uncountable infinity of snapshots. If each snapshot is 2-A, that makes it Low 1-C out of uncountably infinite 2-A snapshots.

What you have is only an infinite number of 2-A

Basically the Universe as part of Space Beyond (also the Multiverse to be part of Space Beyond), and Space Beyond perceiving them as literal faint glow or a star. This proves that Space Beyond is Higher-Dimensions space.

Okay, then let me throw to you what staffs and standards say about this issue.

Also, the expression “seeing them as stardust” here is not really seeing them as star dust in the sense of existence, it's only seeing them as stars from a distance.

The context of this statement was also discussed and accepted in this downgrade revision that it's not enough for QS. So, please don't use the same thing unless a different context comes up, or change the standards extensively

Just like you see stars millions of kilometers light years away from the earth as a tiny dot.

 

[Hellformer]

Paradox: A world where Gwen found the Omnitrix, a world where Albedo turned to Alien X and was trapped motionless for nearly a year, a world where you didn't need to destroy the Omnitrix to defeat Vilgax
Ultimate Ben 10K: Etcetera
Paradox: Ad infinitum

Now look at the MCU cosmology page:

With this we can conclude that all of the uncountable infinite timelines that branched out indefinitely from the Sacred Timeline at least contain an infinite number of universes, realities and dimensions, endless possibilities where every passing/singular moment can branch out into infinite realities and possibilities, making each single branch a 2-A structure which in turn can branch out into uncountable infinite 2-A structures on its own, and so on ad infinitum with each single branch.This makes the entire structure of the Sacred Timeline along with all of its uncountable infinite branched timelines ad infinitum a Low 1-C structure.

So what I'm arguing is that each universe has 2-B possibly 2-A space time continuums via branching and there are infinite such set of universes with each branching out to uncountably infinite 2-A structure on its own, and so on ad infinitum which Professor Paradox mentioned.

@Lord_Farquaad69420 You agree with this reasoning? For space beyond being low 1-c

 

[Hellformer]

What you have is only an infinite number of 2-A

Ok so you decided to ignore everything

 

[Georredannea15]

Ok so you decided to ignore everything

You are still confusing infinite 2-A timelines with 2-A/4-D snapshots in a timeline.

After so many citations and explanations you still don't get it and that's not my problem because I don't know how many times I have discussed this context, even the standards for it have changed, but there are still people like you who argue this, and it's starting to make me little nervous.

 

[Georredannea15]

In short, having infinite number of 2-A timelines =/= being a timeline with 2-A/4-D snapshots in each time point.

IT'S. SO. SIMPLE!

 

[Electronic74947]

MCU was Low 1-C because each snapshot in the holy timeline (i.e. each time point) was 2-A.


Timelines being 2-A is not the same as each snapshot being 2-A because a timeline contains an uncountable infinity of snapshots. If each snapshot is 2-A, that makes it Low 1-C out of uncountably infinite 2-A snapshots.

What you have is only an infinite number of 2-A.

Just say hypertimeline lol

 

[Georredannea15]

Just say hypertimeline lol

I wanted to explain it simple and at the same time detailed way so that they can understand it better.

And the bad thing is, it's still not understood

 

[Electronic74947]

I wanted to explain it simple and at the same time detailed way so that they can understand it better.

And the bad thing is, it's still not understood

i think hypertimeline would have got the point across easier since "infinite snapshots of infinite 4D" and "infinite amounts of an infinite 4D construct" sound similar lmfao

 

[Hellformer]

You are still confusing infinite 2-A timelines with 2-A/4-D snapshots in a timeline.

After so many citations and explanations you still don't get it and that's not my problem because I don't know how many times I have discussed this context, even the standards for it have changed, but there are still people like you who argue this, and it's starting to make me little nervous.

Dimensions which are not always in sync in time. Think of time and space as this tree down here is when you were 10 years old, right here is now. Up here is when you'll be 30 years old. The trunk is the main timeline

The alternative universes formed as a result are snapshots of a certain time period and are not in sync in time. This is due to each snapshot branching into a different alternative timeline. Which keeps branching ad infinitum as mentioned by Paradox Earlier.
To elaborate even further, there are literal 3 to 4 versions of on screen Ben 10,000 and we don't know if any of them being same as Prime Ben's future. Which implies that those are formed due to snapshots of Prime Ben's future.
Next we got Ben 23 who's around 13 years old and Prime Ben did not have Omnitrix on his wrist at that time. So that version is a snapshot branch of 13y/o Prime ben(there could be more of such but on screen we are shown only one since its impossible to show an infinite number of them)

 

[Georredannea15]

Dimensions which are not always in sync in time. Think of time and space as this tree down here is when you were 10 years old, right here is now. Up here is when you'll be 30 years old. The trunk is the main timeline

The alternative universes formed as a result are snapshots of a certain time period and are not in sync in time. This is due to each snapshot branching into a different alternative timeline. Which keeps branching ad infinitum as mentioned by Paradox Earlier.

Branching timelines being 4-dimensional or infinite does not make them hypertimelines.

Do me a favor and please only take a look at my wiki-wide revision for temporal dimensions.

 

[Hellformer]

Branching timelines being 4-dimensional or
infinite does not make them hypertimelines.

So you backtracked when I proved that the branches arise from snapshots of a 2-A structure? And no I'm not even arguing for a hypertimeline because I did not say that there is another temporal dimension. I'm simply arguing for an uncountably infinite amount of 2-A structures aka Aleph1 number of inf 4-D structures which gives a 5-D structure (space beyond in this case)

Do me a favor and please only take a look at my wiki-wide revision for temporal dimensions.

Do me a favor pick a 5th class English textbook to learn how to understand the person you're trying to have a conversation with.

 

[Georredannea15]

So you backtracked when I proved that the branches arise from snapshots of a 2-A structure? And no I'm not even arguing for a hypertimeline because I did not say that there is another temporal dimension. I'm simply arguing for an uncountably infinite amount of 2-A structures aka Aleph1 number of inf 4-D structures which gives a 5-D structure (space beyond in this case)

Do me a favor pick a 5th class English textbook to learn how to understand the person you're trying to have a conversation with.

But to be 5-D with a timeline that spans an uncountably infinite number of 2-A timelines with branching is already hypertimeline. The MCU example you gave is like that.


You don't even know what you are defending man

 

[Hellformer]

But to be 5-D with a timeline that spans an uncountably infinite number of 2-A timelines with branching is already hypertimeline. The MCU example you gave is like that.

So you conceded that Ben 10 has it the same way MCU does? Already proven that each snapshot branches into different timelines btw(same as MCU).

You don't even know what you are defending man

You literally conceded buddy