George was holding back here, you can see this from his casual movements and his dialogue at the end of the clip.
So we can think that in that scene George attacks Fasttrack several times but Fasttrack avoids these attacks and as I said, Gwen does some damage in that scene.
For this one I’m gonna pretend this is an Ultimate Humungousaur upgrade thread and not a general character upgrade thread, as I don’t really have anything to say in that case.
So back when Ascalon was only High 5-A I would’ve wholeheartedly agreed with this, however now I’m not so sure. imo it makes very little sense for Ultimate Kevin to be any higher than High 5-A due to not having access to any DNA stronger than Way Big’s, which in turn means Ultimate Hugh’s battle with Kevin creates a massive contradiction. Maybe if you argued Kevin absorbed the Map of Infinity it would work (as Ultimate Hugh has shown himself able to scale to Addwaitya with the Alpha Rune in the past), however there’s no evidence for this beyond Ultimate Kevin being able to escape the Forge and would also make every Ultimate Hugh level character “possibly High 3-A” with pretty small amounts of evidence. While I can get behind this idea, you might need more evidence of Kevin having the Map’s power for any mods to agree.
this situation is actually not that confusing because both of them are ready to fight and it seems like they didn't feel anything against george's attack and we can take it as ultimate kevin and waybig also have dns, this was not shown to us of course, but we can take this situation as a given because he is absorbing the omnitrix and in this situation he does not have the luxury of making a choice, that is, he does not choose which dns to take, so kevin and waybig have dns and I think he only treats it as power because we have not seen any other feature
This is a weird scene tbh. George kinda looks pathetic here even though he should be able to easily deal with them based on his other showings. He also isn’t really hurt here, he’s just pushed down so idk if this is really an instance of scaling. I guess there’s no concrete argument against it though (aside from scaling chain issues which I’ll get to later).
In fact, before this scene, Dagon's seal is broken and he may have given power to the Esoterica just like he did to Vilgax.
Characters taking attacks in Ben 10 is weird, as they’re consistently shown to be able to take hits from villains with killing intent who can no-sell their own. imo I don’t think a character should be scaling to another if there’s a clear power gap and the weaker character can’t do anything to the stronger one. I’ll be calling other instances of this “Ben 10 durability logic”, unless it’s done by a character logically holding back of course.
We can take vilgax's only goal as killing them, after all, there is a previous grudge and after this situation, Humungousaur will withstand the attack of anodite, of course, I don't know how serious that attack is.
So I don’t have any issue with the arguments themselves as Gwen is clearly portrayed as comparable to the other characters in these clips, however what I do have an issue with is how OV Anodite Gwen is treated in the verse in general. Every scene of Anodite Gwen in UAF shows a clear superiority between her and everyone else. Meanwhile in OV she feels and is portrayed as basically just as strong as base UAF Gwen. I didn’t realise how bad it was until I rewatched those clips but it just doesn’t make sense, so part of me is wondering whether OV Anodite Gwen should actually be considered as strong as UAF Anodite Gwen or if we just consider it some “partial awakening” kinda thing.
Also isn’t Gwen going full Anodite meant to be a big deal that can have permanent consequences on her humanity? Why is she casually using the form in basically every fight?
Actually, yes, this situation is strange, but for now, this situation seems good, I think there is no problem.
Atomix is most likely just holding back here (especially for Spidermonkey), however you could maybe use this as support for 4-B Ultimate Humungousaur as he was completely fine after the second attack. Again though it might just be Atomix holding back.
He doesn't seem to be holding back here, after all, he just started using atomix and makes a pretty big attack, throws a mini sun that he can create and also makes an attack for the ultimate spider monkey, in which case he realizes that he will make such a dangerous attack and throws the gwen away, so he doesn't hold back here.
This is an interesting point, however this is just from Feedback absorbing Malware’s energy while inside him. The blast Feedback shoots out is much larger than his normal ones, and Fourth Form Malware is so strong that even if they downscaled from Way Big it would be pretty much impossible for any regular alien to harm him.
Yes, that makes sense, it might have absorbed the malware's energy while it was inside it.
These are all examples of Way Big just holding back, as he isn’t trying to kill any of these guys. Also Trombipulor’s clip is a gag and the sentient Ultimates couldn’t deal any damage to Way Big with their attacks.
actually waybig's only goal was to get out of there, so I don't know what the level of attack would have been, but I think this increases the situation of the ultimate Humungousaur and the ultimate spider monkey, and there benjamin was quite angry, and the blows that waybig made seemed to be harder than his previous battles against us, which benjamin took seriously.
I know you didn’t mention it but just in case: Rath getting squashed by Way Big’s hand is Ben 10 durability logic, also he gets knocked out from it.
I think you agreed with the speed scales so I won't go into it too much.
Shocksquatch was casually flicked away by the Way Bad so it wasn’t a real attack.
waybad is many times more angry than normal, so he never makes a random attack, but like most situations, we can take this situation as possible.
Echo Echo defeated him by exploiting his sensitive hearing, but yeah the Goop stuff would be fine if not for scaling chain issues (again I’ll get to them later).
I have no problem with this, but again, as I said, we can take it as "Possibility"
Max wasn’t really attacked here, and he won by exploiting a weakness. At best this would be a Lifting Strength feat, but even then this is an older and likely weaker Max which causes circular scaling issues.
Animo's purpose there was only to escape and for this he had to defeat Max, but yes, Max defeated him by thinking tactically, but he withstood his blow, I think we should consider this as a possibility.
Pretty sure this causes circular scaling issues as XLR8 10,000 effortlessly beat Exo-Skull in OS, and also Ben 10,000 has decades of training and experience so he should be much stronger than present Ben by default.
I won't go into this further, but I think there are too many feats to call them outliers, and this is one of them. We can close this topic by saying "possibly"
This just tells me Spanner shouldn’t be High 5-A lol
But yeah there’s no issues here beyond scaling chain issues.
Spanner is mostly dealing with small aliens and should be on par with the others in this regard.
This is kinda the most blatant example of issues with the scaling chain. Ultimate Humungousaur is massively superior to Diamondhead, Atomix is massively superior to UH and Atomix had to use his strongest attack to even harm Malgax. Ben hurting Malgax with weaker aliens doesn’t make sense, and if I was to give a potential in-universe explanation I would say that Malgax is super arrogant and is only using as much power as is necessary.
The Feedback stuff is fine, but would just give his Striking Strength category “up to 4-B, possibly 4-A with absorption” as he’s amping his hands with electricity.
He was shown to be stronger, but after all, aliens can rebel and Whampire doesn't have that many feats, especially with small aliens, and his fight with Malgax was better than Atomix's.
); so I'll be fine with whatever she decides, incase I Disagree with her, I'll just login back duh. So count me agreeing with her. Cya.
