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Is the layering system in naruto correct?

Nova2121

Nova2121

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https://media.**********.net/attachments/1199504790485475380/1211756975591788605/Screenshot_20231226-210613_Chrome.png?ex=65ef5ba0&is=65dce6a0&hm=d3f5872be2683b23c67fea438ca174af56ad4bdf4650ac61fc3e5f023ca21e71&=&format=webp&quality=lossless
because of this scaling, there are those who take 10 layers for naruto verse




  1. now in verse x there is one mind mania with 100000 power, in verse y there are 4 mind manias with 1000,900,80,50 power.In verse y the mind mani with 1000 power gets 4 layers, in verse x the mind mani with 100000 power does not get layers. normally the mind mani in verse x is stronger but the mind mani in verse y is considered stronger than the mind mani in verse x. isn't this wrong?
 
Nova2121 said:
  1. now in verse x there is one mind mania with 100000 power, in verse y there are 4 mind manias with 1000,900,80,50 power.In verse y the mind mani with 1000 power gets 4 layers, in verse x the mind mani with 100000 power does not get layers. normally the mind mani in verse x is stronger but the mind mani in verse y is considered stronger than the mind mani in verse x. isn't this wrong?
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Most verses don't have the Dragon ball scanners to tell how much power they have, so how can you say verse x has 1000000 power if you only know that verse x has mind manipulation? Powers themselves can also get a sort of tier to them for example Marvel on this wiki has tier 1 mind manipulation that doesn't grant tier 1 in AP. Is the case with Naruto how do you know Sasuke's sharingan has 1000 of power? All you can do is layers to it
 
Nova2121 said:
https://media.**********.net/attachments/1199504790485475380/1211756975591788605/Screenshot_20231226-210613_Chrome.png?ex=65ef5ba0&is=65dce6a0&hm=d3f5872be2683b23c67fea438ca174af56ad4bdf4650ac61fc3e5f023ca21e71&=&format=webp&quality=lossless
because of this scaling, there are those who take 10 layers for naruto verse




  1. now in verse x there is one mind mania with 100000 power, in verse y there are 4 mind manias with 1000,900,80,50 power.In verse y the mind mani with 1000 power gets 4 layers, in verse x the mind mani with 100000 power does not get layers. normally the mind mani in verse x is stronger but the mind mani in verse y is considered stronger than the mind mani in verse x. isn't this wrong?
Click to expand...
What? A layered about is an ability that overcome resistance to said hax. If X can resist mind manipulation and Y can successfully use mind manipulation on X then Ys mind manipulation worked through the resistances, making it "layered". This is exactly how genjutsu in Naruto is shown to work. Best example would be Mukai completely resisting Itachis 3t genjutsu but then getting affected by Shisuis MS genjutsu.

I don’t really understand what do you mean by "power" in this case.
 
DavidTPPM said:
What? A layered about is an ability that overcome resistance to said hax. If X can resist mind manipulation and Y can successfully use mind manipulation on X then Ys mind manipulation worked through the resistances, making it "layered". This is exactly how genjutsu in Naruto is shown to work. Best example would be Mukai completely resisting Itachis 3t genjutsu but then getting affected by Shisuis MS genjutsu.

I don’t really understand what do you mean by "power" in this case.
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I'm assuming by power he means a situation in a verse where you had a Tsukyome level mind manipulation but because there is no mind reistance it would be considered not layered so inferior to 3T genjutsu
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
Most verses don't have the Dragon ball scanners to tell how much power they have, so how can you say verse x has 1000000 power if you only know that verse x has mind manipulation? Powers themselves can also get a sort of tier to them for example Marvel on this wiki has tier 1 mind manipulation that doesn't grant tier 1 in AP. Is the case with Naruto how do you know Sasuke's sharingan has 1000 of power? All you can do is layers to it
Click to expand...
This is just an illustration, isn't it necessary to break 10 different resistances to get 10 layers and how many people it affects, how big its impact is?
 
DavidTPPM said:
What? A layered about is an ability that overcome resistance to said hax. If X can resist mind manipulation and Y can successfully use mind manipulation on X then Ys mind manipulation worked through the resistances, making it "layered". This is exactly how genjutsu in Naruto is shown to work. Best example would be Mukai completely resisting Itachis 3t genjutsu but then getting affected by Shisuis MS genjutsu.

I don’t really understand what do you mean by "power" in this case.
Click to expand...
impact level
 
Suigetsuhyugs said:
I'm assuming by power he means a situation in a verse where you had a Tsukyome level mind manipulation but because there is no mind reistance it would be considered not layered so inferior to 3T genjutsu
Click to expand...
Nova2121 said:
This is just an illustration, isn't it necessary to break 10 different resistances to get 10 layers and how many people it affects, how big its impact is?
Click to expand...
Nova2121 said:
impact level
Click to expand...
That's understandable but not how resistances work. Layers don't determine "impact" on the affected but who it can affect.

Let's say X can completely manipulate the mind of 1000 people to such an extent they don't even realize it.
Now Y can only affect 1 person and only make them want to dance.
You would say that X has a much better mind manipulation than Y. But now let's say X tries to use his mind manipulation on someone with baseline resistance and fails. This means his mind manip has 0 layers.
Then Y tries to use his ability on someone who has shown to completely resist mind manipulation in the past and it works. This would mean he has layered mind manipulation.

This means that while getting hit by Xs mind manipulation would be more dangerous, it would be easier to avoid, while getting hit with Ys mind manipulation would be barely an inconvenience, it would be harder to avoid.
 
DavidTPPM said:
That's understandable but not how resistances work. Layers don't determine "impact" on the affected but who it can affect.

Let's say X can completely manipulate the mind of 1000 people to such an extent they don't even realize it.
Now Y can only affect 1 person and only make them want to dance.
You would say that X has a much better mind manipulation than Y. But now let's say X tries to use his mind manipulation on someone with baseline resistance and fails. This means his mind manip has 0 layers.
Then Y tries to use his ability on someone who has shown to completely resist mind manipulation in the past and it works. This would mean he has layered mind manipulation.

This means that while getting hit by Xs mind manipulation would be more dangerous, it would be easier to avoid, while getting hit with Ys mind manipulation would be barely an inconvenience, it would be harder to avoid.
Click to expand...
I don't know much about naruto verse, but there is a question I want to ask, does each of these genjutsu break resistance, for example, is there a place where someone who can resist mugen tsukiyomi can't resist sasuke's genjutsu?
 
Nova2121 said:
I don't know much about naruto verse, but there is a question I want to ask, does each of these genjutsu break resistance, for example, is there a place where someone who can resist mugen tsukiyomi can't resist sasuke's genjutsu?
Click to expand...
Yes, but it's usually not directly shown on screen. The thing is that 9/10 times, when someone can resist their opponents genjutsu the opponent knows it and simply won't use genjutsu preserve chakra.

Especially high level genjutsu like Tsukuyomi which are very chakra tasking.
 
DavidTPPM said:
Yes, but it's usually not directly shown on screen. The thing is that 9/10 times, when someone can resist their opponents genjutsu the opponent knows it and simply won't use genjutsu preserve chakra.

Especially high level genjutsu like Tsukuyomi which are very chakra tasking.
Click to expand...
Can you name someone who can resist tsukiyomi but not kotaamatsukami?
why are these genjutsu not stratified according to the people whose resistance they break, instead of stratifying them like this?
 
Nova2121 said:
I don't know much about naruto verse, but there is a question I want to ask, does each of these genjutsu break resistance, for example, is there a place where someone who can resist mugen tsukiyomi can't resist sasuke's genjutsu?
Click to expand...
So6p Users can resist Infinite Tsukuyomi for example Hamura and Hagoromo,Sasuke's Genjutsu is known as the most powerful genjutsu This puts it above IT
 
Mamaroza said:
So6p Users can resist Infinite Tsukuyomi for example Hamura and Hagoromo,Sasuke's Genjutsu is known as the most powerful genjutsu This puts it above IT
Click to expand...
How do you know it can affect hagaromo and hamura?
 
DavidTPPM said:
Hebi Sasuke.

I'm not sure what exactly are you asking
Click to expand...
And I want to ask you something, for example, in the dragon ball verse there is a mind manipulation like infinite tsukiyomi that keeps you in the dream world forever, they have the same effect, and in the dragon ball verse there is no other mind manipulation, now there are 5 other mind manipulations that are inferior to the infinite tsukiyomi in the naruto verse, and it gets tiered as superior to them, and is the infinite tsukiyomi in the naruto verse considered superior to the mind manipulation in the dragon ball verse even though their effects are the same?
 
Nova2121 said:
And can you send me a statement or an episode where hebi sasuke resists tsukiyomi? Can you prove that you can't resist Kotoamatsukami?
Click to expand...
1kvkj0.jpg

I'll grab the scans in a bit
 
Nova2121 said:
Ve size bir şey sormak istiyorum, örneğin Dragon Ball ayetinde sizi sonsuza kadar rüya aleminde tutan sonsuz tsukiyomi gibi bir zihin manipülasyonu var, aynı etkiye sahipler ve Dragon Ball ayetinde başka bir zihin yok manipülasyon, şimdi naruto ayetindeki sonsuz tsukiyomi'den daha düşük olan 5 zihin manipülasyonu daha var ve onlardan üstün olarak kademelendiriliyor ve naruto ayetindeki sonsuz tsukiyomi, dragon ball ayetindeki zihin manipülasyonundan daha üstün kabul ediliyor etkileri aynı olmasına rağmen mi?
Click to expand...
can you answer the question @DavidTPPM
 
Nova2121 said:
translate opens at the top right so I mistakenly typed another language, edited sorry
Click to expand...
No problem
Nova2121 said:
And I want to ask you something, for example, in the dragon ball verse there is a mind manipulation like infinite tsukiyomi that keeps you in the dream world forever, they have the same effect, and in the dragon ball verse there is no other mind manipulation, now there are 5 other mind manipulations that are inferior to the infinite tsukiyomi in the naruto verse, and it gets tiered as superior to them, and is the infinite tsukiyomi in the naruto verse considered superior to the mind manipulation in the dragon ball verse even though their effects are the same?
Click to expand...
It's the same thing as I explained. The effects are not what decides who it can affect. It just decides how the person gets affected.

So the potency of the genjutsu is superior even tho the effects themselves are the same.
 
Nova2121 said:
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Hax It says here that for mind manipulation it is important how it works
Click to expand...
What's important is how the hax works with resistance to said hax. For example
In GoH when someone resists mind manipulation they are completely unaffected as if it didn't even exist. But in Naruto, people usually still get put under the genjutsu and can break out of it. Meaning while in one verse characters resist mind manipulation completely passively, in Naruto mind manipulation usually gets resisted consciously and actively.

For example, Danzo can resist Sasukes genjutsu. But for that he needs to notice it. Meaning when Sasuke used genjutsu that Danzo didn't notice, he didn't resist it because he didn't know he was under one.
 
DavidTPPM said:
What's important is how the hax works with resistance to said hax. For example
In GoH when someone resists mind manipulation they are completely unaffected as if it didn't even exist. But in Naruto, people usually still get put under the genjutsu and can break out of it. Meaning while in one verse characters resist mind manipulation completely passively, in Naruto mind manipulation usually gets resisted consciously and actively.

For example, Danzo can resist Sasukes genjutsu. But for that he needs to notice it. Meaning when Sasuke used genjutsu that Danzo didn't notice, he didn't resist it because he didn't know he was under one.
Click to expand...
is this layering accepted in the crossverse
 
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