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Sonic the Hedgehog vs The Player (Wizard101) (2-2-0)
- Thread starter Spilxson2
- Start date
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 10,446
- 11,226
Even assuming Sonic misses all of his attacks, there's not even going to be a chance for a retaliation that Sonic won't pick up on because of higher reaction speed combined with amps.
I vote Sonic for my reasons, and tbh I'm surprised this match ended up working.
I vote Sonic for my reasons, and tbh I'm surprised this match ended up working.
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 10,446
- 11,226
If The Player can hang with Archie, my hopes aren't high for Game. Low 1-C passives hurt lol
- 4,698
- 1,146
- Thread starter
- #125
Well at least there's a key without Low 1-C passives
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 10,446
- 11,226
Sonic no-sold Dark Gaia's influence due to his strong will, which is both Mind/Empathic Manip.
Ayewale
He/Him- 1,089
- 876
What does Sonic do against the Player's probability hax?
If Sonic has a 0% chance of his techniques working then they never will. If the Player raises the chances of his techniques working then they eventually will (notwithstanding that Sonic getting overconfident/cocky and simply ******* up is well within his character). Sonic's resurrection...uses an image so blurry it's literally unreadable, nice. But anyways, going off the wiki, Sonic needs to actually collect Soul Energy to resurrect, and the Soul Gauge starts at zero. If the chance of Sonic's stuff working is at zero, then he'd just never get the Soul Gauge. Under these conditions the Player should be pretty much guaranteed to win.
Alternatively, if Sonic just blitzes him with an attack 346x the Player's speed and instantly kills him then the match is a stomp.
I'll vote the player assuming the latter scenario isn't what we're working off.
If Sonic has a 0% chance of his techniques working then they never will. If the Player raises the chances of his techniques working then they eventually will (notwithstanding that Sonic getting overconfident/cocky and simply ******* up is well within his character). Sonic's resurrection...uses an image so blurry it's literally unreadable, nice. But anyways, going off the wiki, Sonic needs to actually collect Soul Energy to resurrect, and the Soul Gauge starts at zero. If the chance of Sonic's stuff working is at zero, then he'd just never get the Soul Gauge. Under these conditions the Player should be pretty much guaranteed to win.
Alternatively, if Sonic just blitzes him with an attack 346x the Player's speed and instantly kills him then the match is a stomp.
I'll vote the player assuming the latter scenario isn't what we're working off.
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 10,446
- 11,226
How The Player manages to even touch Sonic here is the bigger problem; as he has 4x greater reaction speed, as well as agility and mobility better in every way with amps to his speed over 300 fold.
The Player will never get the opportunity.
Most of this is against Dr. Eggman, which is personal beef. He never underestimated Dark Gaia, Merlina, etc.
Sonic can gain Soul Gauge via several ways, one in particular through upgrades being via simply running. So Sonic will be passively generating Soul Energy throughout the fight.
Edit: Tbh this may just be a mismatch. Either Sonic stomps this key or gets stomped by the others.
- 4,698
- 1,146
- Thread starter
- #134
The player seems to have win conditions though. Just that Sonic seems to get his win conditions off more often than not
Ayewale
He/Him- 1,089
- 876
Yeah because those are world-ending threats he knows are dangerous. Against a ridiculous-looking teenage wizard Sonic would almost undoubtedly not take them very seriously.
Far as I can tell this wouldn't build nearly enough to makeup for sonic being completely unable to land an attack, so assuming the probability hax works he'd still end up losing in the long term.
Although if this match is literally "sonic goes with 350x speed and the player never gets the chance to act" then I'd call it a stomp.
- 4,698
- 1,146
- Thread starter
- #138
@XxZetsuxX Should I just make it Base Sonic? You said that even with Excalibur, the player still has win conditions
- 666
- 328
I don't normally do this nowadays, but I feel I might as well correct a few misconceptions/misunderstandings involving the Player since I'm one of the few supporters of the verse... admittedly, some of them may have been endorsed or started by me in the past... I don't really remember all of the arguments I used back in the day, but regardless, I'll be addressing things as I understand them now. I want to prefix this by saying that I don't intend to create any CRTs to officially update the verse any time soon, especially with the ongoing debates involving the tiering system being changed. That said, if anyone else feels the need to create one, feel free to do so with or without my assistance. The wiki is currently 2 years behind Wizard101's current arc anyway and it's still missing a bunch of other profiles.
Firstly, about the Player's passives: the Player doesn't have passive Matter Manipulation. They do have Matter Manipulation, but it definitely isn't passive. I think the argument might've been something like "Well they're obviously stronger than these characters that have it so they should too" but I don't really think that works well for anyone but Bartleby, Raven, or Spider in the verse (and possibly Dasein/the Nothing). That said, the Player does have passive absorption and passive Law Manipulation... the latter of which is essentially the in-universe explanation for the "duel circle" that characters are forced into, making them commit to turn-based combat with no dodging. The absorption was rated at 2-A because Morganthe was 2-A... and Morganthe is 2-A because of the Song of Creation... although an argument could be made that it's actually Low 1-C, it's much easier to assume that it's 2-A. The law manipulation would still be Low 1-C though... so should the other stuff like power nullification and probability manipulation.
The probability manipulation can reduce things to having a 0% chance, but that's assuming that it's being stacked. This is due to the nature of the spells themselves, reducing "accuracy" by a fixed amount (usually 40% or 45%, but it can go over or under) thus lowering the chances of people doing things. For a long time, these numbers and spells were "fixed" and there was no reason to assume that the spells didn't just work precisely as described in-game, but as of recently the developers have gone to remove/replace the effects of certain spells, and in one instance they even changed the level (and consequentially, the keys) in which a spell is available, so it's not as straightforward anymore. It should also be worth mentioning that the Debilitate spell listed on the Player's profile is only definitively available to them in the Divine Paradox key. I think that was just an oversight in editing the profile given that it correctly labels things like Omnegation as being there, though.
I do want to clarify that a few of the more bizarre things are actually accurate - like the Player's hax commonly working at and against conceptual levels (There's even a WoG statement suggesting that all Wizards in general might be able to do this.) and a lot of their arsenal being based on 5D smurf hax, but I still wanted to clear up some of the misunderstandings.
Firstly, about the Player's passives: the Player doesn't have passive Matter Manipulation. They do have Matter Manipulation, but it definitely isn't passive. I think the argument might've been something like "Well they're obviously stronger than these characters that have it so they should too" but I don't really think that works well for anyone but Bartleby, Raven, or Spider in the verse (and possibly Dasein/the Nothing). That said, the Player does have passive absorption and passive Law Manipulation... the latter of which is essentially the in-universe explanation for the "duel circle" that characters are forced into, making them commit to turn-based combat with no dodging. The absorption was rated at 2-A because Morganthe was 2-A... and Morganthe is 2-A because of the Song of Creation... although an argument could be made that it's actually Low 1-C, it's much easier to assume that it's 2-A. The law manipulation would still be Low 1-C though... so should the other stuff like power nullification and probability manipulation.
The probability manipulation can reduce things to having a 0% chance, but that's assuming that it's being stacked. This is due to the nature of the spells themselves, reducing "accuracy" by a fixed amount (usually 40% or 45%, but it can go over or under) thus lowering the chances of people doing things. For a long time, these numbers and spells were "fixed" and there was no reason to assume that the spells didn't just work precisely as described in-game, but as of recently the developers have gone to remove/replace the effects of certain spells, and in one instance they even changed the level (and consequentially, the keys) in which a spell is available, so it's not as straightforward anymore. It should also be worth mentioning that the Debilitate spell listed on the Player's profile is only definitively available to them in the Divine Paradox key. I think that was just an oversight in editing the profile given that it correctly labels things like Omnegation as being there, though.
I do want to clarify that a few of the more bizarre things are actually accurate - like the Player's hax commonly working at and against conceptual levels (There's even a WoG statement suggesting that all Wizards in general might be able to do this.) and a lot of their arsenal being based on 5D smurf hax, but I still wanted to clear up some of the misunderstandings.
- 14,991
- 10,585
thanks for the info
the player has passive absorption and passive law manip in his arc 2 key right? so it cant be used in this fight sadly
is the players probability hax passive in arc 1?
- 666
- 328
The passive absorption only becomes prominent (and acknowledged) in Arc 2. It's possible that they had it in Arc 1, but I don't want to speculate. We would need to CRT it in order to use it anyway. They do have non-passive absorption abilities though. The law manipulation is in all keys including Arc 1. The only passives that the Player directly has in the first two arcs are law manipulation and later-on absorption (not counting passives granted by Shadow transformations)., but they fight characters with passives all the time and can use power nullification against them. A few of the spells have "passive" in their description on the profile but that was never meant to be interpreted as those abilities are passively cast, it was more like "once it's cast, these effects take place passively and continuously".
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