• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Sonic game canonicity and statements on Classic Sonic's AP

OculoOmnibus

162
52
So I read Classic Sonic's page again, and wanted to ask some questions:
Defeated a weaponized Egg Mobile as well as Silver Sonic. Both of which were powered by a Chaos Emerald
Click to expand...
Two things to ask for this:
  1. Sonic Pocket Adventure is non-canon according to Ian and the lore team, so why is there a statement from the game used to power scale Classic Sonic?
  2. Where is it ever directly stated Silver Sonic is powered by a Chaos Emerald? Sure he dropped one, but are there any manuals or guidebook material stating that he was powered by it?
Fought and defeated each of his rivals during Sonic the Fighters, each of whom were in possession of a Chaos Emerald that bolster their power.
Click to expand...
Again, where is the scan from a manual or guidebooks that states they were explicitly powered by them? All I remember is that in the Japanese manual, they were guarding the Chaos Emeralds rather than using them outright.
 
MrMTurbo said:
So I read Classic Sonic's page again, and wanted to ask some questions:

Two things to ask for this:
  1. Sonic Pocket Adventure is non-canon according to Ian and the lore team, so why is there a statement from the game used to power scale Classic Sonic?
Click to expand...
The link you linked says nothing on pocket adventure

MrMTurbo said:
  1. Where is it ever directly stated Silver Sonic is powered by a Chaos Emerald? Sure he dropped one, but are there any manuals or guidebook material stating that he was powered by it?
Click to expand...
He is in possesion of one, occam's razor applies here
MrMTurbo said:
Again, where is the scan from a manual or guidebooks that states they were explicitly powered by them? All I remember is that in the Japanese manual, they were guarding the Chaos Emeralds rather than using them outright.
Click to expand...
Why would we need a statement for something so obvious and on the nose?
 
Additionally, Sonic can one-on-one characters in The Fighters, all of which are in the possession of an Emerald (Edit: Nvm that was in the OP and it was responded)
 
MrMTurbo said:
Again, where is the scan from a manual or guidebooks that states they were explicitly powered by them?
Click to expand...
Touching an emerald gives you a power up as seen in Shadow's game when he gets the first emerald.

A bumblekast from last year isn't a good source on what's canon or not.
 
MrMTurbo said:
Again, where is the scan from a manual or guidebooks that states they were explicitly powered by them? All I remember is that in the Japanese manual, they were guarding the Chaos Emeralds rather than using them outright.
Click to expand...
Whenever someone posess the emeralds, it empowers those who wield them as other people pointed out. This also applies to machines such as Eggman's robot or beings like Biolizard or Chaos
 
It's also worth noting that Silver Sonic doesn't have a Chaos Emerald in the bad ending, and it's said he was in possession of one in the Encyclo-speed-Ia iirc.
 
MrMTurbo said:
Blatantly stated non-canon
Click to expand...
by Ian more than one year ago, sorry, why would his word be the end all in this? he is but a helper in bigger team, until we have true official information, there is no reason to take old takes such as this so hard

MrMTurbo said:
Ian even backs this up and says the game was not even allowed to be mentioned by name in Encyclo-speed-ia.
Click to expand...
it was not allowed to be mentioned sure, so what? in the same clip Ian comfirms that it is the transition from classic to modern, honestly, we don't know why it couldn't be mentioned, not an official reason at least, so again, doesn't prove much

MrMTurbo said:
Even if it was, why is it in Classic Sonic's profile and not Adventure Era Sonic's? It should be moved over there because the designs
Click to expand...
you mean the desings that, aside from sonic's green eyes, were all from classic? with eggman himself being his classic self until the very last boss, it is a transition in between them, but still classic

MrMTurbo said:
and release of the game were in the Adventure Era.
Click to expand...
the release date is irrelevant, sonic superstars is still before adventure 1 even tho it is launching a few good decades after the latter

That_moron said:
It's also worth noting that Silver Sonic doesn't have a Chaos Emerald in the bad ending
Click to expand...
why does the non canon bad ending matters?

That_moron said:
and it's said he was in possession of one in the Encyclo-speed-Ia iirc.
Click to expand...
yeah, and as said, even having 1 chaos emerald in hand boosts your power, anything any guide says is secondary in comparison to the main canon, in this case, the game itself
 
Last edited:
And again, Ian contradicts himself often in his bumblekast, so take everything he says there (or in general) with a grain of salt
 
BlastX said:
And again, Ian contradicts himself often in his bumblekast, so take everything he says there (or in general) with a grain of salt
Click to expand...
If he straight up stated the game is not canon and won't ever be canon, what's the point of including it in debates?
 
omegabronic said:
Why would we need a statement for something so obvious and on the nose?
Click to expand...
I'm asking whether the JP manual states or implies if they actually have one on hand or if they're just guarding them like what Knuckles does with the Master Emerald. The scan of Shadow saying he feels boosted by it's power is when he interacts with it, as in physically touching the emerald.

If the manual states they have it on hand or they're using it's power to beat up Sonic then case closed.
 
Ian's own words is that Sonic's canon changes and games can fluctuate between canon and non canon at a moments notice. So his word isn't realible on that. Only Sega's/The games
 
Theuser789 said:
Ian's own words is that Sonic's canon changes and games can fluctuate between canon and non canon at a moments notice. So his word isn't realible on that. Only Sega's/The games
Click to expand...
I don't get how hard it is to accept the fact that Pocket Adventure can't be used in debates, Ian said that was a Sega decision to blacklist Pocket Adventure in both Encyclo-speed-ia and from the entire Sonic canon.
If just touching a Chaos Emerald makes you that powerful, then his tiering could still be kept since Silver Sonic and now characters in Sonic Superstars has this occurring, but if something is outright stated non-canon what's the point of including it on the page?
 
JJSliderman said:
Click to expand...

Ian doesn't seem to know for sure given his confused tone

MrMTurbo said:
I'm asking whether the JP manual states or implies if they actually have one on hand or if they're just guarding them like what Knuckles does with the Master Emerald.
Click to expand...
they have it, the manual says as much

MrMTurbo said:
The scan of Shadow saying he feels boosted by it's power is when he interacts with it, as in physically touching the emerald.
Click to expand...
exactly

MrMTurbo said:
I don't get how hard it is to accept the fact that Pocket Adventure can't be used in debates, Ian said that was a Sega decision to blacklist Pocket Adventure in both Encyclo-speed-ia and from the entire Sonic canon.
If just touching a Chaos Emerald makes you that powerful, then his tiering could still be kept since Silver Sonic and now characters in Sonic Superstars has this occurring, but if something is outright stated non-canon what's the point of including it on the page?
Click to expand...
Why are you taking ian's word as the complete absolute?
 
MrMTurbo said:
I don't get how hard it is to accept the fact that Pocket Adventure can't be used in debates, Ian said that was a Sega decision to blacklist Pocket Adventure in both Encyclo-speed-ia and from the entire Sonic canon.
Click to expand...
Because Ian isn't a realible WoG. If there's more proof of the game being canon, then it can be removed.
 
omegabronic said:
by Ian more than one year ago, sorry, why would his word be the end all in this? he is but a helper in bigger team, until we have true official information, there is no reason to take old takes such as this so hard
Click to expand...
My brother in christ Ian wrote the official encylopedia, and the script for Sonic Frontiers. He was the head writer for the canon comic books for the largest arc it had, and still does work on it. Ian is about as good a word as any.
BlastX said:
And again, Ian contradicts himself often in his bumblekast, so take everything he says there (or in general) with a grain of salt
Click to expand...
Because Sega changes its mind often. As of now Pocket Adventure has no evidence for being canon, and a mountain of evidence against it begin canon since it wasn't even allowed to be mentioned for the official encylopedia.
omegabronic said:
no he doesn't, we can clearly see that he doesn't after the results of each fight
Click to expand...
Then wtf is ultra mode? The premise of the game contradicts this as all the people that have chaos emeralds are fighting.
Theuser789 said:
Because Ian isn't a realible WoG. If there's more proof of the game being canon, then it can be removed.
Click to expand...
Jesus man if the thing wasn't even allowed to be mentioned, never was referenced in anything ever, doesn't fit in the timeline concretely, and is stated non-canon its non-canon.
Theuser789 said:
Touching an emerald gives you a power up as seen in Shadow's game when he gets the first emerald.
Click to expand...
Shadow is literally built to be able to harness Chaos Energy. He's not the norm. Even if he was that's stupidly inconsistent.
omegabronic said:
He is in possesion of one, occam's razor applies here
Click to expand...
No it doesn't dumbass. The path of least assumption would be he's just holding one.
omegabronic said:
Why are you taking ian's word as the complete absolute?
Click to expand...
Why aren't you taking the fact that its verbatium non-canon by Sega's official word as not the absolute.
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Whenever someone posess the emeralds, it empowers those who wield them as other people pointed out. This also applies to machines such as Eggman's robot or beings like Biolizard or Chaos
Click to expand...
Biolizard has an organ that lets him use Chaos powers. Chaos is connnected to Chaos Energy. Eggman robots are built to be powered by them in a few special cases. Stop treating this like its normal characters.
 
That_moron said:
My brother in christ Ian wrote the official encylopedia, and the script for Sonic Frontiers. He was the head writer for the canon comic books for the largest arc it had, and still does work on it. Ian is about as good a word as any.
Click to expand...
No, he is a freelancer writter hired by sega to writte a bunch of stuff, who aproves and decides which of said stuff is to launched or edited is sega, he is secondary at best, of course, it matters more for things he has written, but PA is not one of them

That_moron said:
Then wtf is ultra mode? The premise of the game contradicts this as all the people that have chaos emeralds are fighting.
Click to expand...
What about ultra mode? Also Nope, sonic had a chaos emerald, but he wasn't in hold of it during the fights, this is clearly shown in every end result of the fights

That_moron said:
Shadow is literally built to be able to harness Chaos Energy. He's not the norm. Even if he was that's stupidly inconsistent.
Click to expand...
Is he tho?

That_moron said:
No it doesn't dumbass.
Click to expand...
stop right there, insults are not useful, therefore don't use them

That_moron said:
The path of least assumption would be he's just holding one.
Click to expand...
why would eggman put an emerald inside his robot and not use it to power said robot?

That_moron said:
Why aren't you taking the fact that its verbatium non-canon by Sega's official word as not the absolute.
Click to expand...
It is said by Ian, not sega

That_moron said:
Biolizard has an organ that lets him use Chaos powers.
Click to expand...
"organ"?

That_moron said:
Eggman robots are built to be powered by them in a few special cases.
Click to expand...
Proof of this?
 
That_moron said:
My brother in christ Ian wrote the official encylopedia, and the script for Sonic Frontiers. He was the head writer for the canon comic books for the largest arc it had, and still does work on it. Ian is about as good a word as any.
Click to expand...
When it comes to Sonic content, there's some things Ian isn't WOG on, but the fact that he explicitly mentions Pocket Adventure cannot be used and is blacklisted from the canon by Sega themselves is enough proof it shouldn't be used on the wiki.
 
The Encyclospeedia is also choke full of errors, so it's not the most reliable thing out there.

Hell Flynn has been wrong about what's canon and what's not, he claimed Infinite was dead while Kishimoto expressed interest in bringing Infinite back, he claimed non male hedgehogs couldn't go Super when that's been contradicted by the games multiple times and even Kishimoto didn't know where that idea came from when asked, he claimed Labyrinth was non canon when then the official Sonic JP Twitter promoted the game and celebrated it's anniversary.
 
BlastX said:
The Encyclospeedia is also choke full of errors, so it's not the most reliable thing out there.
Click to expand...
Then again, going by that logic, Sonic the Fighters isn't canon because there's 8 Chaos Emeralds (which are explicitly stated as "Chaos Emeralds" so you can't really use the argument that one is the Master Emerald).
Sega has deemed Encyclo-speed-ia as a source to illustrate the canon timeline despite the fact that Sonic canon is so convoluted and messy there's no point of having one so we have to go by what Sega says unless they or Iizuka change their minds.
 
MrMTurbo said:
Then again, going by that logic, Sonic the Fighters isn't canon because there's 8 Chaos Emeralds (which are explicitly stated as "Chaos Emeralds" so you can't really use the argument that one is the Master Emerald).
Click to expand...
Inconsistency =/= non canon, in sonic battle all the emeralds were green, yet we know for a fact that it is canon

MrMTurbo said:
Sega has deemed Encyclo-speed-ia as a source to illustrate the canon timeline despite the fact that Sonic canon is so convoluted and messy there's no point of having one so we have to go by what Sega says unless they or Iizuka change their minds.
Click to expand...
And sega said nothing on PA, Ian is the one who said so
 
omegabronic said:
Inconsistency =/= non canon, in sonic battle all the emeralds were green, yet we know for a fact that it is canon
Click to expand...
I was responding to Blast's message about Encyclo-speed-ia having inconsistencies. It's a source to know the Sonic canon and has not been blacklisted or anything by Sega, so it can be used as WOG statements since Sega clearly had to check and approve it before it was published.

Fighters despite having inconsistencies is part of the Sonic canon because there is nothing stating it isn't, while with PA we have actual confirmation that it's both non-canon and will never be canon.

I seriously don't get how it's this hard to process for some people...
 
BlastX said:
e claimed non male hedgehogs couldn't go Super when that's been contradicted by the games multiple times and even Kishimoto didn't know where that idea came from when asked,
Click to expand...
Ian wasn't the one that decided that. Izuka said that.
BlastX said:
he claimed Labyrinth was non canon when then the official Sonic JP Twitter promoted the game and celebrated it's anniversary.
Click to expand...
It was at the time. Ian himself has said that he goes by Sega's word, and has decliened to answer questions if Sega is undecided or if he doesn't have word. And just promoting the game doesn't make it canon.
 
That_moron said:
Ian wasn't the one that decided that. Izuka said that.

It was at the time. Ian himself has said that he goes by Sega's word, and has decliened to answer questions if Sega is undecided or if he doesn't have word. And just promoting the game doesn't make it canon.
Click to expand...
"Izuka said that"

Where's the proof? Cause I don't see any
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Prime2024
Base games sonic and his 4-C rating
Replies
14
Views
1K
omegabronic
omegabronic
omegabronic
"Powerful to the very core": Chaos Emeralds additions (Plus a minor fix to Sonic's inteligence)
2
Replies
48
Views
3K
omegabronic
omegabronic
Chaos Emerald Minor CRT + Varying Power Levels
Replies
7
Views
2K
LaserPrecision
LaserPrecision
McFriesGuy075
The Ultimate Rematch | Shadow the Hedgehog vs Biolizard (Finalhazard) (5-0-0)
Replies
20
Views
2K
JRockfish1
JRockfish1
Chanimate
The Battle of Ultimate Lifeforms (Shadow vs Fecto Forgo)
Replies
13
Views
898
Chanimate
Chanimate
Back
Top