Revising Cell Saga Scaling

[Nullflowerblush]

This one is going to take a little more discussion.

Okay so...

As Third Grade Super Saiyan is accepted as 10x Second Grade, thus >10x Super Saiyan (i.e., >500x), the scaling chain from Super Trunks onward needs to be revised.
For sanity's sake, a Quettaton of TNT is 4.18254497e+39 joules.

• Post-RoSAT Future Trunks is powerful enough to halt Semi-Perfect Cell in its steps. >978.945045777 Quettatons [4.09448168e+42 joules]
• Trunks is slightly inferior to Vegeta. >978.945045777 Quettatons [4.09448168e+42 joules]
• Super Vegeta completely dominated Semi-Perfect Cell, effortlessly. >978.945045777 Quettatons [4.09448168e+42 joules]
• Super Trunks is 10x as powerful as he was in Grade 2. >9789.45046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+43 joules]
• Although inferior, Perfect Cell manages to inflict damage upon Super Trunks, who is stalling for Krillin. <9789.45046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+43 joules]
• Cell accesses the same power as Trunks. >97894.5046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+44 joules]
• At full power, Goku's power was perceived as immeasurable. >97894.5046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+44 joules]
• Without even preparing for battle, Gohan viewed Goku's performance against Cell as insignificant. >97894.5046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+44 joules]
• Riding off from its fight with Goku and a Senzu Bean, Cell effortlessly pummels and overpowers Gohan. >97894.5046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+44 joules]
• Threatened by SSJ2, Cell unleashes its full power, shocking everyone. >97894.5046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+44 joules]
• On the losing end of a Kamehameha battle, Cell enters its Grade 3 state again, even larger than before. >978945.0456 Quettatons [4.09448168e+45 joules]
• After self-destructing, Cell revived more powerful and "more perfect" than ever. >978945.0456 Quettatons [4.09448168e+45 joules]
• With less than half power remaining, Gohan manages to defeat Revived Cell's Kamehameha. >1957890.09 Quettatons [8.18896336e+45 joules]

This bumps the Z-Fighters up by several times, and buffs Powerhouse Cell into Solar System level.
Feel free to talk about it!

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Agree

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Isnt Grade 3 10x Grade 2 meaning Trunks with grade 3 would scale above Vegeta in grade 2 by 10x?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Trunks' Grade 2 would be inferior to Vegeta's Grade 2, but like that changes nothing

 

[Damage3245]

I'll give a proper analysis tomorrow, but I'm against this bit:

• Super Saiyan Goku at half power shocked even Trunks, who witnessed the Grade 3 Cell. >97894.5046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+44 joules]

Trunks being shocked at Goku's level of power isn't confirmation that half power Goku is superior to Grade 3 Cell.

 

[Hiryu-Z]

Agree FRA

 

[Golden_Void]

Agree, the nature of us not knowing how strong grade 2 makes these numbers lowballed anyway.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I'll give a proper analysis tomorrow, but I'm against this bit:

• Super Saiyan Goku at half power shocked even Trunks, who witnessed the Grade 3 Cell. >97894.5046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+44 joules]

Trunks being shocked at Goku's level of power isn't confirmation that half power Goku is superior to Grade 3 Cell.

I suppose that's fair. What about the comments at the Cell Games, are they any better?

 

[LordTracer]

I agree with the OP, aside from the part that Damage mentioned. Full power Goku scaling is fine though.

 

[Golden_Void]

Trunks was shocked at SS3 Goku's power, who one-shot him when base Black never did. His assessments are generally accurate, even if they at least suggest they are comparable. If Goku were still (much) weaker, Trunks would probably say something.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Agreed

 

[omegabronic]

Agreed

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I'll give a proper analysis tomorrow, but I'm against this bit:

• Super Saiyan Goku at half power shocked even Trunks, who witnessed the Grade 3 Cell. >97894.5046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+44 joules]

Trunks being shocked at Goku's level of power isn't confirmation that half power Goku is superior to Grade 3 Cell.

Wouldn’t it mean he’s superior to grade 3 trunks tho?

 

[LordTracer]

Trunks was shocked at SS3 Goku's power, who one-shot him when base Black never did. His assessments are generally accurate, even if they at least suggest they are comparable. If Goku were still (much) weaker, Trunks would probably say something.

Actually, now that you mention it, it would be really weird for Trunks to be shocked by Goku’s strength if he was 1/10 as powerful as Cell, so nvm, I’m fine with that part.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Looks good to me. Wonder how speed scaling will look like (Well lets not have that conversation here since this is for AP).

 

[Eseseso]

Agree!

 

[Fezzih_007]

agree

 

[TiltedFN]

I agree with this

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

This looks good, I agree.

 

[Maizesoup]

Agree

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Agree

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I'll give a proper analysis tomorrow, but I'm against this bit:

• Super Saiyan Goku at half power shocked even Trunks, who witnessed the Grade 3 Cell. >97894.5046 Quettatons [4.09448168e+44 joules]

Trunks being shocked at Goku's level of power isn't confirmation that half power Goku is superior to Grade 3 Cell.

Ima have to agree with this.
How the hell is Goku at 50%> Grade 3 Cell when his 100% is weaker than normal Cell?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Cell, at the time of confronting Trunks, had been fully realized for mere minutes, and everything up until that point had been described as a "warm up". Its power is vast, and its complete extents were only revealed against Gohan, quaking the entire planet in the process.

Grade 3 Cell then could be infinitely inferior to the Cell that fought Goku for all we know.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Grade 3 Cell then could be infinitely inferior to the Cell that fought Goku for all we know.

Then why assume he was using the full strength of Grade 3, when the powerup itself is meant to multiply his raw strength itself? For all we know he could be suppressing himself even while in this state, we don’t know.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

It'd be pretty strange to gawk about the utility, or lack thereof, of a transformation and not actively show off the transformation in its fullest.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Cell showing off his version of a Grade 3 sounds solid, as would Goku mastering SSJ being stronger than Grade 3 SSJ Trunks. But it is kind of a loophole given that Cell considered him unimpressive unless it's implied Cell is stronger during Cell games than he was when he fight Vegeta and Trunks.

Also, don't Gohan and Super Perfect Cell already scale from an even better feat without yet another 10x multiplier? Because last I checked Cell's own Solar Kamehameha was caucluated to be over a Kilofoe or over 10^47 Joules.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Just to address this, when Cell said he'd destroy the entire Solar System, would he be destroying everything up the Kuiper Belt or Ort Cloud?

Because I have my own calc for that

 

[Nullflowerblush]

unless it's implied Cell is stronger during Cell games than he was when he fight Vegeta and Trunks.

Cell was genuinely excited to face off Goku, and it was the first time Cell ever released its Ki.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

So in other words, Cell was holding back and was hiding his true strength during his fight with Ultra SSJ Trunks. Yeah that sounds about right.

 

[AguilaR202]

Wouldn’t this scaling have some ramifications in the Buu saga?

Under the assumption that Piccolo would be nearing Cell Jr levels of Power and base Saiyans by that time scale above Piccolo whilst having access to a 500x multiplier as SS2.

 

[TiltedFN]

Just to address this, when Cell said he'd destroy the entire Solar System, would he be destroying everything up the Kuiper Belt or Ort Cloud?

Because I have my own calc for that

you got cell to multi solar system? That is crazy

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Just to address this, when Cell said he'd destroy the entire Solar System, would he be destroying everything up the Kuiper Belt or Ort Cloud?

Because I have my own calc for that

I'd prefer sticking to AssaltWaffle's calculation, it uses the assumptions that makes sense and has ISL calculated properly. "Destroying the sun from Earth's location" is just what is solid enough while requiring less assumptions.

 

[LordTracer]

Just to address this, when Cell said he'd destroy the entire Solar System, would he be destroying everything up the Kuiper Belt or Ort Cloud?

Because I have my own calc for that

This really doesn’t have anything to do with this CRT and should be in its own thread.

 

[ByAsura]

Don't both Cell and Trunks say Vegeta has Grade 3 in the raws (which I have btw)?

Vegeta admitted that 50% Goku was way more powerful.

 

[Damage3245]

Don't both Cell and Trunks say Vegeta has Grade 3 in the raws (which I have btw)?

Vegeta admitted that 50% Goku was way more powerful.

Grade 3 is not a form that any of the fighters would normally use (aside from Trunks who was ignorant about its drawbacks until Cell pointed them out).

50% Goku can just be much stronger than Vegeta normally.

It's not like Trunks thinks that he's never felt anything as strong as Goku at that time.

 

[ByAsura]

I really don't see why this wouldn't include Grade 3 just because it's not a form he chooses to use.

 

[Damage3245]

I really don't see why this wouldn't include Grade 3 just because it's not a form he chooses to use.

Link doesn't work.

 

[Padaruyos]

Uhh, I can't see whatever is in that link.

I really don't see why this wouldn't include Grade 3 just because it's not a form he chooses to use.

 

[ByAsura]

It's this (since the official translation is way more clear), but never mind. I guess we can just go with the low-ball route when there's some vagueness involved.

How the hell is Goku at 50%> Grade 3 Cell when his 100% is weaker than normal Cell?

Perfect Cell holding back almost the entire time he was onscreen, including the Trunks fight. He uses his full power once against SS2 Gohan.

This is why his and Goku's kis were >> everyone else during the Cell Games, despite Krillin sensing Grade 3's ki.

 

[Damage3245]

It's this (since the official translation is way more clear), but never mind. I guess we can just go with the low-ball route when there's some vagueness involved.

Thanks.