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Kirby vs. Mario

So another Kirby vs Mario match, except this time it's Pure Hearts Mario, not Royal Stickers Mario. Unlike Royal Stickers Mario, Pure Hearts Mario is 2-B compared to Kirby's 2-C. Last time Kirby won, but this time might be different...

Kirby probably starts by throwing a Friend Heart at Mario. What does Mario start with?
 
Ret_of_Guys said:
So another Kirby vs Mario match, except this time it's Pure Hearts Mario, not Royal Stickers Mario. Unlike Royal Stickers Mario, Pure Hearts Mario is 2-B compared to Kirby's 2-C. Last time Kirby won, but this time might be different...

Kirby probably starts by throwing a Friend Heart at Mario. What does Mario start with?
Click to expand...
I dunno.
 
Rose_of_Ragnarok said:
You need Soul Manipulation or EE to kill Kirby's Low-Godly. If Mario's NPI can't kill souls then he ain't stopping Kirby from regenerating.
Click to expand...

makes sense

does Mario have optional equipment here? not like he may need it or not, since he can just one-shot Kirby repeatedly
 
Last edited:
What is meant by reflecting a Friend Heart is how Mario can knock projectiles away from him with his hammer as shown in the Mario & Luigi games, correct? If so, that wouldn't help him. Friend Heart disintegrates on impact and doesn't need to make contact with a target's skin in order to convert them into an ally. I've seen Friend Heart work even if it disintegrates while near a target without making contact with them. Watch the footage linked, and put it in slow motion if you need to. Kirby threw a Friend Heart at Driblee, the Friend Heart broke on contact with the water attack, but it converted Driblee into an ally anyway. Mario breaking a Friend Heart so close to him would cause him to become Kirby's ally.
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
What is meant by reflecting a Friend Heart is how Mario can knock projectiles away from him with his hammer as shown in the Mario & Luigi games, correct? If so, that wouldn't help him. Friend Heart disintegrates on impact and doesn't need to make contact with a target's skin in order to convert them into an ally. I've seen Friend Heart work even if it disintegrates while near a target without making contact with them. Watch the footage linked, and put it in slow motion if you need to. Kirby threw a Friend Heart at Driblee, the Friend Heart broke on contact with the water attack, but it converted Driblee into an ally anyway. Mario breaking a Friend Heart so close to him would cause him to become Kirby's ally.
Click to expand...

the link you provided shows the Friend Heart ignoring the water attack because of how close they were to Driblee

it only disintegrated cause it made direct contact with Driblee itself, not the water attack, so you're probably gonna need a better example than that
 
AStrangeverse said:
the link you provided shows the Friend Heart ignoring the water attack because of how close they were to Driblee

it only disintegrated cause it made direct contact with Driblee itself, not the water attack, so you're probably gonna need a better example than that
Click to expand...
When I put the footage in slow motion or even viewed it frame by frame, I saw that the Friend Heart disintegrated once it touched the water, and turned Driblee into an ally without touching it. Focus on the exact frame Driblee gains the Water Ability hat.


It's difficult to find examples online because most players let Kirby aim Friend Hearts himself instead of controlling his aim, since he aims at enemies properly, but if you have Kirby Star Allies you can try aiming a Friend Heart directly next to an enemy and you'll see that it will convert them even though it didn't touch them.
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
When I put the footage in slow motion or even viewed it frame by frame, I saw that the Friend Heart disintegrated once it touched the water, and turned Driblee into an ally without touching it. Focus on the exact frame Driblee gains the Water Ability hat.


It's difficult to find examples online because most players let Kirby aim Friend Hearts himself instead of controlling his aim, since he aims at enemies properly, but if you have Kirby Star Allies you can try aiming a Friend Heart directly next to an enemy and you'll see that it will convert them even though it didn't touch them.
Click to expand...


I viewed the same video in slow motion, and the Friend Heart only bypasses the attack because Kirby is literally in Driblee's face, that just seems like a common game mechanic to me

even the sign displays that the heart has to make contact with the enemy to convert them

I'd be more convinced if Kirby was a set distance away, and the Friend Heart actually converted an enemy by touching their attack

so until ya show me that, can't say I'm all too swayed
 
AStrangeverse said:
even the sign displays that the heart has to make contact with the enemy to convert them

I viewed the same video in slow motion, and the Friend Heart only bypasses the attack because Kirby is literally in Driblee's face, that just seems like a common game mechanic to me

I'd be more convinced if Kirby was a set distance away, and the Friend Heart actually converted an enemy by touching their attack

so until ya show me that, can't say I'm all too swayed
Click to expand...
The sign is just for instructions, not what actually happened.

Anyway, I don't have other footage of this readily available, and it's very uncommon to see what I'm referring to, so I'm finished with that. Perhaps something else similar will convince you. When Kirby tried converting Pon and Con during a story event and The Three Mage-Sisters during a cutscene, the Friend Heart didn't directly touch all of them yet they all got affected by it anyway.
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
The sign is just for instructions, not what actually happened.
Click to expand...

I would think the sign would also mention that you could perform that on enemy projectiles too, but aight

James_Plays_4_Games said:
Anyway, I don't have other footage of this readily available, and it's very uncommon to see what I'm referring to, so I'm finished with that. Perhaps something else similar will convince you. When Kirby tried converting Pon and Con during a story event and The Three Mage-Sisters during a cutscene, the Friend Heart didn't directly touch all of them yet they all got affected by it anyway.
Click to expand...

same thing seems to happen in the Pon and Con, and the Mage-Sisters one

Kirby is very close to them, and chucks a Friend Heart to convert them, but wasn't your point being that the Friend Heart could convert an enemy into an ally even if the Friend Heart hit their projectile?

none of that happens in those two links ya sent me, though the Friend Heart having some sort of effect radius (?) is a nice touch

I'm still not entirely convinced though, until you show the Friend Heart specifically hitting an enemy's projectile and converting them into an ally
 
AStrangeverse said:
I would think the sign would also mention that you could perform that on enemy projectiles too, but aight
Click to expand...
The signs for how to control characters only show one aspect.
same thing seems to happen in the Pon and Con, and the Mage-Sisters one

Kirby is very close to them, and chucks a Friend Heart to convert them, but wasn't your point being that the Friend Heart could convert an enemy into an ally even if the Friend Heart hit their projectile?

none of that happens in those two links ya sent me, though the Friend Heart having some sort of effect radius (?) is a nice touch

I'm still not entirely convinced though, until you show the Friend Heart specifically hitting an enemy's projectile and converting them into an ally
Click to expand...
My point is that Friend Heart doesn't have to make contact with a target to convert them, it just has to be directly near the target when it disintegrates. I was showing its area of effect. Obviously Kirby can't convert Mario if Kirby throws a Friend Heart at a fireball that he dodged. My point is that if Mario tries to reflect a Friend Heart with his hammer, it would disintegrate too close to him and convert him.
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
The signs for how to control characters only show one aspect.
Click to expand...

aight

James_Plays_4_Games said:
My point is that Friend Heart doesn't have to make contact with a target to convert them, it just has to be directly near the target when it disintegrates. I was showing its area of effect. Obviously Kirby can't convert Mario if Kirby throws a Friend Heart at a fireball that he dodged. My point is that if Mario tries to reflect a Friend Heart with his hammer, it would disintegrate too close to him and convert him.
Click to expand...

it definitely seems like the Friend Heart has to make direct contact, when it comes to at least a single individual, in order to convert them, going off of the examples you've shown me, but I'm convinced

on another note, what stops Mario from simply just.. dodging the Friend Heart?
 
AStrangeverse said:
aight



it definitely seems like the Friend Heart has to make direct contact, when it comes to at least a single individual, in order to convert them, going off of the examples you've shown me, but I'm convinced

on another note, what stops Mario from simply just.. dodging the Friend Heart?
Click to expand...
I remembered some occurrences that were easier to find that might make what I'm writing more clear. I've seen Friend Heart work even if enemies are attacking in a way that blocks it from touching their body. It converts Parasol Waddle Dee if it touches the umbrella instead of the actual character. During my search, I also found something similar to what I initially was describing. I saw Kirby throw a Friend Heart at Sir Kibble, who was jumping over their blade coming back to them, the Friend Heart hit the blade but Sir Kibble was too close to where it disintegrated so they became an ally.

No one proposed that Mario couldn't dodge a Friend Heart. Friend Heart can be thrown many times in quick succession, but Mario's a good acrobat, so he might find a way around it.
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
I remembered some occurrences that were easier to find that might make what I'm writing more clear. I've seen Friend Heart work even if enemies are attacking in a way that blocks it from touching their body. It converts Parasol Waddle Dee if it touches the umbrella instead of the actual character. During my search, I also found something similar to what I initially was describing. I saw Kirby throw a Friend Heart at Sir Kibble, who was jumping over their blade coming back to them, the Friend Heart hit the blade but Sir Kibble was too close to where it disintegrated so they became an ally.
Click to expand...

your point about the enemy attacks blocking seems a lil off to me

the Sir Kibble one also seems off, since this is a very similar situation to the first link you showed, where Kirby is too close to really discern if the Friend Heart hit the boomerang or Sir Kibble

those are the only two issues I have, the others seem alright

James_Plays_4_Games said:
No one proposed that Mario couldn't dodge a Friend Heart. Friend Heart can be thrown many times in quick succession, but Mario's a good acrobat, so he might find a way around it.
Click to expand...

if it ain't too much to ask, mind providing an example of the Friend Heart being thrown in rapid succession?
 
AStrangeverse said:
your point about the enemy attacks blocking seems a lil off to me

[...]

if it ain't too much to ask, mind providing an example of the Friend Heart being thrown in rapid succession?
Click to expand...
How so with the one with Chilly? They were doing an ice attack omnidirectionally while a Friend Heart was going to them and the ice didn't do anything to prevent them from getting turned into an ally.

Sure, it's not too much to ask for. It's not like a machine gun, but it's fast enough for Kirby to swiftly continue after getting interrupted, and would probably require Mario to focus.
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
How so with the one with Chilly? They were doing an ice attack omnidirectionally while a Friend Heart was going to them and the ice didn't do anything to prevent them from getting turned into an ally.
Click to expand...

mainly cuz I don't remember the ice copy, that Kirby can use, to be able to destroy projectiles and such

that's mostly it

James_Plays_4_Games said:
Sure, it's not too much to ask for. It's not like a machine gun, but it's fast enough for Kirby to swiftly continue after getting interrupted, and would probably require Mario to focus.
Click to expand...

hm, okay

Mario should definitely be able to avoid a lot of those, especially when assisted by Zone Speed and such
 
Rose_of_Ragnarok said:
You need Soul Manipulation or EE to kill Kirby's Low-Godly. If Mario's NPI can't kill souls then he ain't stopping Kirby from regenerating.
Click to expand...
He can given his ability to do so to Boos in color splash

About friend hearts, nothing is stopping mario from dodging them or and if he can't get in he would be fully willing to just range camp with his pyrokensis, in addition to being able to make it harder for kirby to hit him by way of using flip so he can get in and hit kirby once to one shot
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
Despite Boos disappearing after being attacked by Mario, they don't actually die, as stated during Super Mario⁶⁴.
Click to expand...
1)That doesn't invalidate his NPI and the fact that his AP advantage is to such a degree that if he sneezes too hard he will one shot kirby
2)Thats in 64, what I am talking about is Color Splash, where-in boos just die when Mario defeats them, in addition to Mario having items that let him one tap boos as a part of his standard equipment in this key, see invincibility items
 
deonment said:
1)That doesn't invalidate his NPI and the fact that his AP advantage is to such a degree that if he sneezes too hard he will one shot kirby
2)Thats in 64, what I am talking about is Color Splash, where-in boos just die when Mario defeats them, in addition to Mario having items that let him one tap boos as a part of his standard equipment in this key, see invincibility items
Click to expand...
You did the straw man fallacy or completely missed my point. I never attempted to invalidate Mario's non-physical interaction. He very clearly has that ability, even in the evidence I presented. My point is that a character being able to physically influence or even harm a ghost is not the same as a character being able to kill a ghost by negating their immortality. The only reason I mentioned what happened in Super Mario⁶⁴ is because it adds context to Boos disappearing, showing that they in fact don't die despite vanishing as a result of being defeated by Mario. This should apply to modern games such as Paper Mario: Color Splash, where Mario can physically attack ghosts to make them disappear but we have no reason to infer that he killed them, based on the context that was provided back in Super Mario⁶⁴. I'm referring to Mario's capabilities by default, not what he can achieve with his invincibility items, but either way, on his profile I saw nothing related to Mario's invincibility items granting him the ability of immortality negation.
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
You did the straw man fallacy or completely missed my point. I never attempted to invalidate Mario's non-physical interaction. He very clearly has that ability, even in the evidence I presented. My point is that a character being able to physically influence or even harm a ghost is not the same as a character being able to kill a ghost by negating their immortality. The only reason I mentioned what happened in Super Mario⁶⁴ is because it adds context to Boos disappearing, showing that they in fact don't die despite vanishing as a result of being defeated by Mario. This should apply to modern games such as Paper Mario: Color Splash, where Mario can physically attack ghosts to make them disappear but we have no reason to infer that he killed them, based on the context that was provided back in Super Mario⁶⁴. I'm referring to Mario's capabilities by default, not what he can achieve with his invincibility items, but either way, on his profile I saw nothing related to Mario's invincibility items granting him the ability of immortality negation.
Click to expand...
The invincibility items quite literally cause the same effect as shining light on them in world games, which we know kills them. In addition to this, Mario has straight up killed Cacklettea's soul.
But even if mario cant actually put kirby down, mario can just bfr kirby using flip and gg
 
deonment said:
The invincibility items quite literally cause the same effect as shining light on them in world games, which we know kills them. In addition to this, Mario has straight up killed Cacklettea's soul.
But even if mario cant actually put kirby down, mario can just bfr kirby using flip and gg
Click to expand...
How do we know that shining a bright light on a Boo really kills them? They look panicked and then disappear. That's very similar to what I showed in Super Mario⁶⁴, where a Boo makes a sound in pain from Mario's attack, then disappeared, but it's confirmed that it didn't die. Proving that Mario has the means to bother and hurt Boos doesn't prove that he can negate their immortality.

The defeat of Cackletta's soul is a better example, but I see no immortality on Cackletta's profile on the VS Battles Wiki. Perhaps a type of immortality can be inferred regardless, but keep in mind how Ghost Kirby really works. Cackletta's soul gets defeated upon her HP being depleted, meanwhile Ghost Kirby can fight while his equivalent of HP is depleted, while he's against characters who can fight and defeat Void Soul who is similar to Cackletta's soul in that he's a spiritual character who gets defeated when his equivalent of HP gets depleted.

I don't think it's in character for Mario to bring a character with him while flipping dimensions then flip back while leaving them there. Besides, battlefield removal isn't an automatic win against a character who can find ways to do interdimensional travel, and has their own potential means to do it. Also, I never understood how Mario's flipping dimensions ability would be canonically useful against a character who is naturally 3D anyway, like most characters he'd be against in a versus thread. What's your interpretation of it?
 
Anyway, maybe Mario can still incapacitate Ghost Kirby despite not being able to kill him, since the Pure Hearts still give Mario a major power advantage against Ghost Kirby's durability. Meanwhile, Kirby could get his physical form back after successfully hitting Mario once, regardless of how it wouldn't do damage. In this specific aspect of the battle, the characters could be considered moderately even.
 
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