Lucifer (CW) Fear Resistance

[Robo432343]

Nothing. Making someone afraid alone doesn't qualify for Fear Manipulation, otherwise tons of characters would just have Fear Manipulation with Assault Rifle on their profiles. It's not even a power, other than transformation/shapeshifting/body control.

Ok but lucifer managed to kill a guy because of it. I wouldn’t just die just by seeing someone with an AR

 

[ByAsura]

It's called shock.

 

[Robo432343]

He was shocked/ fell to the ground in fear

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

Ok but lucifer managed to kill a guy because of it. I wouldn’t just die just by seeing someone with an AR

and it took you this long to mention it? why wasnt this the main reasoning, send a scan

 

[ByAsura]

He was shocked/ fell to the ground in fear

Still not fear manip, you can just be that afraid.

In fact, it's kind of a primal response.

 

[Robo432343]

and it took you this long to mention it? why wasnt this the main reasoning, send a scan

Bruhhh it was the same vid Asura sent

Everyone sees Lucifer's devil face here, and only one of them is actually scared.

 

[ByAsura]

and it took you this long to mention it? why wasnt this the main reasoning, send a scan

it's still not fear manipulation. you can die of shock, and almost everyone Lucifer meets doesn't even die when they see his devil face.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I am unsure if Robo is actually talking or joking at this moment. People throw themselves to windows if a monster visits you, is this fear manipulation for you?

 

[ByAsura]

actually, did they die of shock, or is this the person who just jumped to their death? if it's the latter, then that's even less valid.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Bruh
here we see that god doesn’t freak out when he see’s Lucifers devil face like most people do.

your title was funny honestly robo

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

Bruhhh it was the same vid Asura sent

not seeing it anywhere in that video

 

[ByAsura]

I made a lucifer downgrade, btw.

 

[Robo432343]

it's still not fear manipulation. you can die of shock, and almost everyone Lucifer meets doesn't even die when they see his devil face.

Ppl get shocked and scared at the same time

 

[Robo432343]

I am unsure if Robo is actually talking or joking at this moment. People throw themselves to windows if a monster visits you, is this fear manipulation for you?

Bruh then many other characters wouldn’t have fear manip.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Bruh then many other characters wouldn’t have fear manip.

Go ahead and create CRTs rather using whataboutism arguments.

Ppl get shocked and scared at the same time

This does not mean their fear are getting manipulated

 

[FinePoint]

Everyone sees Lucifer's devil face here, and only one of them is actually scared.

One of them? We must not be watching the same clip.

Every example of people resisting it is because:
A.) They're also divine in some way. (Which includes Chloe, spoiler)
B.) They've literally been to Hell or exposed to divinity already.

Chloe and his therapist were not immune, they just reacted in different ways.
Not everyone screams when they're terrified, you saw that when his therapist was frozen she was terrified.
At best, people he has a really good relationship with are able to recover quicker than others.

Statements and demonstrations show regular people becoming terrified without fail.
If it were just looking scary, people wouldn't wet/kill themselves at the sight of that face, tbh.
(Also that video only shows seasons 1 & 2, there's 6 now.)

 

[ImmortalDread]

I still failed to see how Lucifer is manipulating fear of others by just exposing his beautiful/scary face to others. Enlighten me.

 

[Iiliminal]

Goku solos

 

[FinePoint]

I still failed to see how Lucifer is manipulating fear of others by just exposing his beautiful/scary face to others. Enlighten me.

"Fear Manipulation, otherwise known as Fear Inducement is the ability in which to inflict a level of "fear" on the target using supernatural means. Depending on the severity of the fear, the user can use this to manipulate the target, incapacitate them or simply drive them insane."

He has incapacitated people, driven them insane, driven them to suicide, etc.
It definitely seems to be via supernatural means, since even atheists and hardened criminals instantly experience immense fear, rather than just assuming the (frankly not scary) face is just a mask or trick.

It connects back to the way that angels manifest their own powers, and as explained with other artifacts, divinity has a way of driving people insane or otherwise manipulating their minds. By exposing his Devil face, he's bringing forward some of that divinity to instill immense fear.

I don't think we need a direct statement when it's so obvious and consistently terrifying to all except those who either were already exposed to divinity or are divine themselves, which hints at the fact that it is supernatural in nature, since if it was truly just a "really scare face", it wouldn't discriminate like that based on relative powers and divinity or exposure to it.

To put it simply, it not being supernatural doesn't make sense in context, and would make many of the scenes extremely goofy.

 

[ImmortalDread]

"Fear Manipulation, otherwise known as Fear Inducement is the ability in which to inflict a level of "fear" on the target using supernatural means. Depending on the severity of the fear, the user can use this to manipulate the target, incapacitate them or simply drive them insane."

Thanks for sharing fear manipulation

He has incapacitated people, driven them insane, driven them to suicide, etc.
It definitely seems to be via supernatural means, since even atheists and hardened criminals instantly experience immense fear, rather than just assuming the (frankly not scary) face is just a mask or trick.

May I see suicide part? I want to see if their reason they went to suicide is only because he saw his face. Also, “atheists” part is self-explanatory, imagine not believing on devil's existence, and you see one in front of you. I would experience immense fear.

 

[FinePoint]

Thanks for sharing fear manipulation

May I see suicide part? I want to see if their reason they went to suicide is only because he saw his face. Also, “atheists” part is self-explanatory, imagine not believing on devil's existence, and you see one in front of you. I would experience immense fear.

It's in the season 1-2 clip I believe.

And no, if you were an atheist, and someone showed up to you looking like an above-average Halloween costume, you wouldn't instantly denounce your disbelief and run away screaming. That's just ridiculous. Plus, even if he doesn't say he's the Devil, they seem to know he is after seeing it with confidence, rather than just a monster or demon.

Everything in addition to the flickering and effects, and the nature of angels and divinity in the show, it seems more than abundantly clear it's a supernatural sort of thing. The fact that it doesn't affect everyone literally exactly the same does not disprove that, it only proves that different people have different reactions to immense fear or varying resistance to fear, again in this case almost always due to something supernatural, which is more proof of the ability being supernatural as well.

 

[ImmortalDread]

It's in the season 1-2 clip I believe.

Can you get me the clip? I am lazy to go to Netflix and search for it unless it is a whole episode, then I will give up and watch it alone

And no, if you were an atheist, and someone showed up to you looking like an above-average Halloween costume, you wouldn't instantly denounce your disbelief and run away screaming. That's just ridiculous. Plus, even if he doesn't say he's the Devil, they seem to know he is after seeing it with confidence, rather than just a monster or demon.

Except in our case, someone is literally changing his face to demon. I am unconfident how you compare this to an “average Halloween costume”.

Everything in addition to the flickering and effects, and the nature of angels and divinity in the show, it seems more than abundantly clear it's a supernatural sort of thing. The fact that it doesn't affect everyone literally exactly the same does not disprove that, it only proves that different people have different reactions to immense fear or varying resistance to fear, again in this case almost always due to something supernatural, which is more proof of the ability being supernatural as well.

You just proved my point further, it is not supernatural since many saw his face and did not get scared, therefore I don't see how he is manipulating fear in any sort.

 

[FinePoint]

Can you get me the clip? I am lazy to go to Netflix and search for it unless it is a whole episode, then I will give up and watch it alone

In fact, this clip is a great example.
This guy already saw his wings, and knew he was dealing with Satan.
He didn't scream and kill himself, though, until he saw the face.

Except in our case, someone is literally changing his face to demon. I am unconfident how you compare this to an “average Halloween costume”.

I think you vastly underestimate what it takes to make someone change their entire belief system. One flash of a normal scary face wouldn't turn an atheist into a Christian screaming about the Devil- that just seems like common sense to me.

You just proved my point further, it is not supernatural since many saw his face and did not get scared, therefore I don't see how he is manipulating fear in any sort.

I did not. The only people who see it and do not get scared are other divine beings or people exposed to divinity.
As far as I'm aware, we've never seen it fail against a normal person.

 

[ImmortalDread]

In fact, this clip is a great example.
This guy already saw his wings, and knew he was dealing with Satan.
He didn't scream and kill himself, though, until he saw the face.

I mean, for this reason, I would give him fear manipulation. No issues.

I think you vastly underestimate what it takes to make someone change their entire belief system. One flash of a normal scary face wouldn't turn an atheist into a Christian screaming about the Devil- that just seems like common sense to me.

Again, I am not the one who compared it to Halloween costume, therefore this is my argument (why you are stealing it )

I did not. The only people who see it and do not get scared are other divine beings or people exposed to divinity.
As far as I'm aware, we've never seen it fail against a normal person.

Alright. Good point, either way, I would rather interpret it as normal overreaction of people.

 

[Robo432343]

I mean, for this reason, I would give him fear manipulation. No issues.

LETS GOOOO
So can god finally have resistance to fear manip?

 

[ImmortalDread]

Honestly, I would give it a possibly rating as him suiciding intentionally because he saw his face is not factually.
I would assume, it is rather an overreaction. Are there any other instances?

 

[ByAsura]

Ppl get shocked and scared at the same time

Cool, so not fear manip.

One of them? We must not be watching the same clip.

Every example of people resisting it is because:
A.) They're also divine in some way. (Which includes Chloe, spoiler)
B.) They've literally been to Hell or exposed to divinity already.

Chloe and his therapist were not immune, they just reacted in different ways.

I didn't say they were immune, I said they weren't terrified, like many of the other characters. Also, Chloe did see it in season 1 and had virtually no reaction because she wasn't sure that what she was seeing was real.

Not everyone screams when they're terrified, you saw that when his therapist was frozen she was terrified.
At best, people he has a really good relationship with are able to recover quicker than others.

Statements and demonstrations show regular people becoming terrified without fail.
If it were just looking scary, people wouldn't wet/kill themselves at the sight of that face, tbh.
(Also that video only shows seasons 1 & 2, there's 6 now.)

Cool, that's just called being a bit scared.

Again, if everyone had fear manip just for transforming and making people scared, characters would have fear manip for just having assault rifles.

 

[FinePoint]

Cool, so not fear manip.

I didn't say they were immune, I said they weren't terrified, like many of the other characters. Also, Chloe did see it in season 1 and had virtually no reaction because she wasn't sure that what she was seeing was real.

Cool, that's just called being a bit scared.

Again, if everyone had fear manip just for transforming and making people scared, characters would have fear manip for just having assault rifles.

"A bit scared."

I'm not going to continue this debate if you don't even have the decency to acknowledge very clear and simple evidence.

Chloe saw it in a mirror, so it didn't have the same effect. When she's shown it fully in a later season she has to take a while to recover, not to mention she's a miracle child blessed by Amenedial.

"A bit scared" is a gross downplay of what we can clearly see in normal people, and it goes far beyond a reasonable reaction to a scary face, not to mention the established lore about divinity and its affects on the minds of mortals, which you've conveniently ignored.

What would be fear manipulation to you? This fits the site's definition, as far as I'm aware. This is nothing like a nornal person with an assault rifle, that's a blatant false equivalence.

 

[ByAsura]

Chloe saw it in a mirror, so it didn't have the same effect. When she's shown it fully in a later season she has to take a while to recover, not to mention she's a miracle child blessed by Amenedial.

She only fled LA after because Lucifer being the devil was a lot to take in, she wasn't terrified, while Linda was more inquisitive than anything.

That's the thing. Many characters like that guy literally jump off buildings, while lots of characters like Reese are terrified but still pursue Lucifer.

"A bit scared" is a gross downplay of what we can clearly see in normal people, and it goes far beyond a reasonable reaction to a scary face, not to mention the established lore about divinity and its affects on the minds of mortals, which you've conveniently ignored.

First of all, you can't say I'm 'conveniently ignor[ing]' it when you're literally making shit up. It's never once stated in the show that characters are granted some sort of resistance when they're already exposed to divinity as babies.

There's not even established divinity here because Chloe was never exposed to any divine elements, she was basically just a human (barring the flaming sword stuff) whose parents were brought together by the divine. And even after, it still doesn't work remotely on Chloe even when Lucifer's self-actualisation doesn't affect her despite seeing much more warped forms.

My guy, I've already given multiple examples where this is not the case.

What would be fear manipulation to you? This fits the site's definition, as far as I'm aware.

Fear Manipulation = the ability to inflict a level of "fear" on the target using supernatural means.

Transforming is supernatural, but the fear inflicted is natural, so it doesn't count.

This is nothing like a nornal person with an assault rifle, that's a blatant false equivalence.

It's not a blatant false equivalence, I'm saying a man transforming into a demonic form is scary to many people, just like how it's not that scary to many others.

He has incapacitated people, driven them insane, driven them to suicide, etc.
It definitely seems to be via supernatural means, since even atheists and hardened criminals instantly experience immense fear, rather than just assuming the (frankly not scary) face is just a mask or trick.

He's also not done that to people who aren't hardened criminals.

It connects back to the way that angels manifest their own powers, and as explained with other artifacts, divinity has a way of driving people insane or otherwise manipulating their minds. By exposing his Devil face, he's bringing forward some of that divinity to instill immense fear.

This is completely out of context because Lucifer canonically manifests his abilities in a different way, that being revealing people's true natures. It's outright explained that his ability to reveal desires is in the same boat as Amenadiel's power to control time and Michael's ability to make people reveal their worst fears.

Why have they not mentioned the Devil Face doing this in the entire series?

I don't think we need a direct statement when it's so obvious and consistently terrifying to all except those who either were already exposed to divinity or are divine themselves, which hints at the fact that it is supernatural in nature, since if it was truly just a "really scare face", it wouldn't discriminate like that based on relative powers and divinity or exposure to it.

It is completely discriminative. It has totally different effects on the people who see it, and that's shown not to be based on Lucifer's doing.

To put it simply, it not being supernatural doesn't make sense in context, and would make many of the scenes extremely goofy.

Let's put it this way, if Lucifer became a big ass snake and unintentionally caused a guy to have a heart attack, would you say that's fear manipulation?

 

[FinePoint]

She only fled LA way after because Lucifer being the devil was a lot to take in, she wasn't terrified, while Linda was more inquisitive than anything.

That's the thing. Many characters like that guy literally jump off buildings, while lots of characters like Reese are terrified

First of all, don't come at me on this when you're literally making shit up. It's never once stated in the show that characters are granted some sort of resistance when they're already exposed to divinity as children.

I'm not making anything up. There is evidence of people who were previously exposed to divinity being immune, such as the person who came back from Hell, and where all the other angels, gods, and demons aren't affected.

Linda was not inquisitive. She literally froze up completely, and couldn't face him for days.
I should not have to cite that freezing up is a common fear response in humans.

There's no established divinity here because Chloe was never exposed to any divine elements, she was basically just a human. And even after, it still doesn't work remotely on Chloe even when Lucifer's self-actualisation doesn't affect her despite seeing much more warped forms.

My guy, I've already given multiple examples where this is not the case.

When Chloe actually sees it, it does, in fact, work, so to say it doesn't work remotely is not true.
She has a clear expression of fear, breathes heavily, backs away, then distances herself.

Fear Manipulation = the ability to inflict a level of "fear" on the target using supernatural means.

Transforming is supernatural, but the fear inflicted is natural, so it doesn't count.

The level of fear we see in people across the six seasons far exceeds that which those people should reasonably be scared at seeing someone manifest a spooky face, especially people who didn't even believe in the Devil a second ago. The context surrounding it, and the sudden recognition of the Devil even when not explicit, is evidence that is supernatural.

It's not a blatant false equivalence, I'm saying a man transforming into a demonic form is scary to many people, just like how it's not that scary to many others.

He's also not done that to people who aren't hardened criminals, while simultaneously scaring other people.

Give me a example of it not working on a normal human.
As far as I know, there are none.
It instills great fear, and obviously people react to fear differently.
That does not disprove that they're being made to feel fear supernaturally. He is not mind-controlling a specific behavior, he is merely instilling fear and the acknowledgement of the Devil, and their reaction to those feelings will depend on their personality.

This is completely out of context because Lucifer canonically manifests his abilities in a different way, that being revealing people's true natures. It's outright explained that his ability to reveal desires is in the same boat as Amenadiel's power to control time and Michael's ability to make people reveal their worst fears.

Angels can manifest and de-manifest multiple abilities, so I don't see your point here. For example, he's also been: invulnerable, winged, able to fly across dimensions, reveal his devil face, and the intention ones- these are all distinct powers he's manifested and de-manifested at various times, with overlap. He canonically manifests multiple abilities at different times.

It is completely discriminative. It has totally different effects on the people who see it, and that's shown not to be based on Lucifer's doing.

As explained above, this is simply different reactions to immense fear, which you would expect.
He is not mind-controlling a specific behavior, so this does not disprove that he's supernaturally instilling fear.

Let's put it this way, if Lucifer became a big ass snake and caused a guy to have a heart attack, would you say that's fear manipulation?

That is not what happens, and I reject this comparison, since it excludes a ton of context present in the actual feats.

 

[Godernet]

Goku solos so I agree

 

[ByAsura]

I'm not making anything up. There is evidence of people who were previously exposed to divinity being immune, such as the person who came back from Hell, and where all the other angels, gods, and demons aren't affected.

You mean he was unaffected by Demons. That's not divinity.

Funny how you also still have yet to provide me with a single quote that proves your point.

Linda was not inquisitive. She literally froze up completely, and couldn't face him for days.
I should not have to cite that freezing up is a common fear response in humans.
When Chloe actually sees it, it does, in fact, work, so to say it doesn't work remotely is not true.
She has a clear expression of fear, breathes heavily, backs away, then distances herself.

I did say they were scared. My point was that the level of fear was totally incongruous with people who straight up committed suicide, and it isn't really logically explained even by your point that people just have different reactions, whereas it'd actually work if it was natural.

The level of fear we see in people across the six seasons far exceeds that which those people should reasonably be scared at seeing someone manifest a spooky face, especially people who didn't even believe in the Devil a second ago.

First off, who says? These are fictional characters, not even real people.

Secondly, if anything, seeing the supernatural for would probably be scarier for someone who doesn't believe in it at all.

The context surrounding it, and the sudden recognition of the Devil even when not explicit, is evidence that is supernatural.

Most of the time people come to the conclusion that he's the Devil because he literally calls himself Lucifer Morningstar and seemingly (to them) pretends to be the Devil/the son of God. Half the time they don't even say shit about him being the Devil.

Lucifer even has to tell Julian that he's the Devil.

Give me a example of it not working on a normal human.
As far as I know, there are none.

Already did. Half of this crowd are practically unaffected and laughing. Notably, they aren't all accusing him of being the Devil.

Angels can manifest and de-manifest multiple abilities, so I don't see your point here. For example, he's also been: invulnerable, winged, able to fly across dimensions, reveal his devil face, and the intention ones- these are all distinct powers he's manifested and de-manifested at various times, with overlap. He canonically manifests multiple abilities at different times.

First off, that's not the same at all. That's Lucifer unveiling existing abilities that he lost by restoring his wings through self-actualisation. It's shown outright to be a trade off because he loses his devil face, while his mojo is only ever affected by the fact that it doesn't work on Chloe.

Also, Lucifer blatantly contradicts this by separating his mojo (a term applied to abilities in general, like Amenadiel's power) from his Devil Face and is extremely surprised that it still doesn't work on her.

• Lucifer: Detective, since you're clearly comfortable with my devilishness... [...] Care to see my mojo in action?

That is not what happens, and I reject this comparison, since it excludes a ton of context present in the actual feats.

Honestly, there's no context present that actually matters.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Ya no this is not fear manipulation at its slightest, in no scene, he manipulated fear. Just being able to scare people is not sufficient. Bringing someone to suicide was a good argument, but after I re-watched it, he was actually overreacted and scared.

 

[FinePoint]

You mean he was unaffected by Demons. That's not divinity.

What?
No, I mean demons aren't scared by it, and since the Devil is an Angel, and Hell is his domain, it's all sort of connected to Lucifer's divinity.

Funny how you also still have yet to provide me with a single quote that proves your point.

That divine/demonic things aren't affected? That should be obvious if you've seen the show, but the OP already gives an example of God, and also the guy who went to Hell.
I mean, I can, but it will take a minute, since it's a Netflix show, and I have the flu right now.

I did say they were scared. My point was that the level of fear was totally incongruous with people who straight up committed suicide, and it isn't really logically explained even by your point that people just have different reactions, whereas it'd actually work if it was natural.

First off, who says? These are fictional characters, not even real people.

Secondly, if anything, seeing the supernatural for would probably be scarier for someone who doesn't believe in it at all.

This line of logic doesn't work.
If we assume we can't possibly determine a normal level of fear, then this entire debate is meaningless. We have to make some assumptions when scaling fictional characters, and we have not received any evidence that average people are anything other than average people in this universe.
If we, like reasonable people, assume that these normal people have normal fear responses, then it's true that their reactions are extreme.

Most of the time people come to the conclusion that he's the Devil because he literally calls himself Lucifer Morningstar and pretends to be the Devil/the son of God. Half the time they don't even say shit about him being the Devil.

Lucifer even has to tell Julian that he's the Devil.

All he says in that clip is that he's going to punish him. Regardless, this part is more speculative and a side point, so I'm not too attached to it.

Already did. Half of this crowd are practically unaffected and laughing. Notably, they aren't all accusing him of being the devil.

It seems more clear in that scene that only the one person saw it, whether through PIS or supernatural means.
It wouldn't make sense for them to not mention it at all. They are excited because of the money going everywhere.

Lucifer blatantly contradicts this by separating his mojo (a term applied to abilities in general, like Amenadiel's power) from his Devil Face.

• Lucifer: Detective, since you're clearly comfortable with my devilishness... [...] Care to see my mojo in action?

I still don't see your point. What are you arguing, exactly, that Lucifer couldn't possibly have fear manipulation because he already can get people to say their desires? He's demonstrated many other powers, which have all varied via self-manifestation, this doesn't make any sense as an argument.

Honestly, there's no context present that actually matters.

That mortal minds react strongly to divinity and are more malleable.
That this power is supernatural in nature.
That he has already demonstrated levels of mind manipulation with his "mojo".
That he is an angel, and can self-manifest powers.
That to most people he scares, he is just a guy in a suit, who then has a ******-up face for a second. A giant snake poses natural danger in the fact that it's a giant snake, ad could easily eat you.

 

[DivineAura44]

Someone gonna change the thread name

 

[ImmortalDread]

Someone gonna change the thread name

I assume administrators can do it.

 

[Lynieryz]

Agree FRA

 

[Robo432343]

Honestly, I would give it a possibly rating as him suiciding intentionally because he saw his face is not factually.
I would

What?
No, I mean demons aren't scared by it, and since the Devil is an Angel, and Hell is his domain, it's all sort of connected to Lucifer's divinity.

That divine/demonic things aren't affected? That should be obvious if you've seen the show, but the OP already gives an example of God, and also the guy who went to Hell.
I mean, I can, but it will take a minute, since it's a Netflix show, and I have the flu right now.



This line of logic doesn't work.
If we assume we can't possibly determine a normal level of fear, then this entire debate is meaningless. We have to make some assumptions when scaling fictional characters, and we have not received any evidence that average people are anything other than average people in this universe.
If we, like reasonable people, assume that these normal people have normal fear responses, then it's true that their reactions are extreme.

All he says in that clip is that he's going to punish him. Regardless, this part is more speculative and a side point, so I'm not too attached to it.

It seems more clear in that scene that only the one person saw it, whether through PIS or supernatural means.
It wouldn't make sense for them to not mention it at all. They are excited because of the money going everywhere.

I still don't see your point. What are you arguing, exactly, that Lucifer couldn't possibly have fear manipulation because he already can get people to say their desires? He's demonstrated many other powers, which have all varied via self-manifestation, this doesn't make any sense as an argument.

That mortal minds react strongly to divinity and are more malleable.
That this power is supernatural in nature.
That he has already demonstrated levels of mind manipulation with his "mojo".
That he is an angel, and can self-manifest powers.
That to most people he scares, he is just a guy in a suit, who then has a ******-up face for a second. A giant snake poses natural danger in the fact that it's a giant snake, ad could easily eat you.

gg

 

[Robo432343]

I think god should have resistance to poison as well coz his blood is divine like lucifers

 

[Excellence616]

Can't it be Fear Inducement?