Devil Breaker Nero (DMC5)

[Mister6ame6]

Yeah I’m still not convinced on Dante being weaker than Nero here.

Is more because of this Dante fighing a way weaker version of Urizen himself while Nero was considered a worth match for a post one mouth blood sucking Urizen. Well, at least it should put both char in similar level since V thought that Nero after his training can hold his own against him (To the point he cannot say if Nero wins or lose against him after comparing his power to Urizen).

Bro, you they literally don't have hands or even simple intelligence to wield it. Like seriously?
You really think V would consider his summons as candidates to wield DSS?

Not having hands don't matter here as V literally mentions they lack the body, mind, soul and will to wield to fight Urizen. They have inteligente tho? They are Mundus's generals dude, do i'm need to tell more then this for you? Only Nightmare was stated to lack a mind, but Griffon and Shadow defenely have the inteligente for it imo.

I cannot believe you made such an arguement.
Bro wtf?

???

 

[Theglassman12]

And both Dante and Nero were beatened to near death by a Urizen who was hardly trying and was just sitting on his chair the whole time, using Urizen getting scratched or Nero needing DSS despite the fact V thought dante was dead at the time isn't really evidence Nero would be stronger than 5 Dante.

 

[KLOL506]

Nero

Stronger than DMC5 Endgame Peak Dante

COMEDY

 

[Mister6ame6]

And both Dante and Nero were beatened to near death by a Urizen who was hardly trying and was just sitting on his chair the whole time, using Urizen getting scratched or Nero needing DSS despite the fact V thought dante was dead at the time isn't really evidence Nero would be stronger than 5 Dante.

Fair enougth for me, but would then being on similar levels reasonable since both Dante and Nero are treated on similar manner from V?

 

[Mister6ame6]

COMEDY

Early Game man, i'm not insane bro to think Devil Breaker Nero is stronger then End Game DMC5 Dante.

Now Post-True DT awakening Nero is another story

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Fair enougth for me, but would then being on similar levels reasonable since both Dante and Nero are treated on similar manner from V?

They are never treated in a similar way, Dante is literally his best shot at the whole thing and V treats him like that.

Nero on the other hand is basically the "I'm ******" backup. He isn't using Nero because he thinks he can compete in the same way as Dante but because he has 0 options left

 

[Mister6ame6]

He was others options too, Griffon, Shadow and Nightmare, even if wanna argue the DE things for Nightmare that's still not a problem for Griffon and Shadow, which are rn scaled on the same level as Nero himself, which he thought are not worth to bother getting DSS for then, but for Nero was, so him being weaker then the summons makes 0 sense when he was his best shot to fight Urizen after Dante. Nero is defenely stronger then the summons at absolute bare minimum.

And the fact V analised his power and was not able to says if he wins or lose against Urizen should make kinda obvius that he is wayyyy stronger then mf Nightmare.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Are you seriously using that as an argument? Not only is the sword picky on who uses it but neither Griffon nor shadow can even wield the Sparda due to lacking hands, how are they even supposed to use it?

V literally says he has no choice but to trust him not that he is stronger that "all" his summons besides we are back to the whole nightmare thing.

V isn't a fighter, he can't afford to use his energy summoning Nightmare willy nilly unless he is absolutely out of options and even then it's during a very limited time, that's why he went for Dante instead of fighting Urizen with nightmare when the latter was still weaker.

This is the reason why they are trying to make Nero more powerful by giving him the Sparda, that was V's last chance and if Nero didn't pull a miracle after getting the sword then they were done for.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Are you seriously using that as an argument? Not only is the sword picky on who uses it but neither Griffon nor shadow can even wield the Sparda due to lacking hands, how are they even supposed to use it?

Ok man, they can always attacth the sword in the body pretty easy to fix the hands solution, you have a point on the Sparda choosing its own wielder tho.

V literally says he has no choice but to trust him not that he is stronger that "all" his summons besides we are back to the whole nightmare thing.

Griffon: "Can he win and change your fate?"

V "I can't say, but i'm don't have a choice but to share my fate with him"

He literally can't say what is gonna happens if Nero and Urizen crashs with eacth other, the same guy who knows the power of everybody and how they compare with another demon with absolute easy, can't tell if Nero will win or lose against the strongest Demon King in existence, do i'm need to say anything more about how strong Nero is after his training? Sure, later, Urizen got stronger as Griffon points out, but still don't take away how powerfull Nero became after his training.

V isn't a fighter, he can't afford to use his energy summoning Nightmare willy nilly unless he is absolutely out of options and even then it's during a very limited time, that's why he went for Dante instead of fighting Urizen with nightmare when the latter was still weaker.

Yeap, you gotta a point there, but one thing to remaid here is that V did go after someone stronger then his target, not someone weaker then his target.

This is the reason why they are trying to make Nero more powerful by giving him the Sparda, that was V's last chance and if Nero didn't pull a miracle after getting the sword then they were done for.

Yeap, you are 100% right on that, the only i'm trying to show here is that Nero's training did payed off and he did go against someone that is defenely not below Demon King Level, that's is my goal on this thread.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Ok man, they can always attacth the sword in the body pretty easy to fix the hands solution, you have a point on the Sparda choosing its own wielder tho.

LOL I imagined Griffon stabbed with the sword trying to fight.

But seriously, how do we know if that is even going to work? It's a big ass assumption hence why V only had Nero as a last resort.

Griffon: "Can he win and change your fate?"

V "I can't say, but i'm don't have a choice but to share my fate with him"

He literally can't say what is gonna happens if Nero and Urizen crashs with eacth other, the same guy who knows the power of everybody and how they compare with another demon with absolute easy, can't tell if Nero will win or lose against the strongest Demon King in existence, do i'm need to say anything more about how strong Nero is after his training? Sure, later, Urizen got stronger as Griffon points out, but still don't take away how powerfull Nero became after his training.

I think you are forgetting some very important stuff. When V first met Nero he was unconscious and in a hospital, waaaay weaker than he was even during DMC 4.

Now there was a whole month in which Nero was training and he got the devil breakers, from the Nico report we know for a fact that he is at least as strong as he was during DMC 4.

When V meets him again is when Nero has regained all that power back.

Whether V sensed his power or not is irrelevant, whatever power Nero has is irrelevant because Nero is all that is left for them.

V doesn't say "Nero has a better chance than Dante" or something along those lines, he just goes "He can win? Idk but I really hope so"

That doesn't put him in any way, shape or form relative to Dante or Urizen.

The story even confirms this when V goes looking for the Sparda in hopes of getting Nero more power. V knows that Nero is far from whatever victory they need but that's all they have, they can't afford anything else.

That's why when they find Dante V is relieved because they now stand a chance.


In short: V had bronze (Nero) went looking for gold and found Dante.

 

[Random-Helper323]

The fact that V finds both Dante and the Sparda and yet is happy for Dante to wield the Sparda instead of Nero doesn't exactly point to Nero being stronger than Dante either.

 

[Mister6ame6]

LOL I imagined Griffon stabbed with the sword trying to fight.

But seriously, how do we know if that is even going to work? It's a big ass assumption hence why V only had Nero as a last resort.

Not really they can just find something in the middle of city to use not that hard to imagine, but the stab things does makes sense imo.

I think you are forgetting some very important stuff. When V first met Nero he was unconscious and in a hospital, waaaay weaker than he was even during DMC 4.

Now there was a whole month in which Nero was training and he got the devil breakers, from the Nico report we know for a fact that he is at least as strong as he was during DMC 4.

When V meets him again is when Nero has regained all that power back.

Yeap, but you are also forgeting some very important details here, is how strong Nero is stated to be in DMC4, as Dante says he is maybe stronger then himself along with Agnus confirming that Sanctus on his true form is wayyyy stronger then Dante too even before getting DSS.

This basically explain why Nero did better then Dante against Urizen btw, Nero is stronger then Dante overall in power but lacks the experience to use properly with DMC4 context.

Whether V sensed his power or not is irrelevant, whatever power Nero has is irrelevant because Nero is all that is left for them.

V doesn't say "Nero has a better chance than Dante" or something along those lines, he just goes "He can win? Idk but I really hope so"

Its kinda does if you apply DMC4 context on it imo, Nero is already stronger as confirmed in the game and novel.

That doesn't put him in any way, shape or form relative to Dante or Urizen.

The story even confirms this when V goes looking for the Sparda in hopes of getting Nero more power. V knows that Nero is far from whatever victory they need but that's all they have, they can't afford anything else.

Read what i'm said above if we apply all the context of all powerfull the Order of Sword cast is it does makes alot of sense why Nero performed better then Dante against Urizen is proof that he is stronger then him.

That's why when they find Dante V is relieved because they now stand a chance.


In short: V had bronze (Nero) went looking for gold and found Dante.

V was never really relieved with finding Dante because the last time he tried to use him its failed hard and he knows very well that Dante chance are no better then before.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Yeap, but you are also forgeting some very important details here, is how strong Nero is stated to be in DMC4, as Dante says he is maybe stronger then himself

Novel only, and only referring to physical lifting strength.

along with Agnus confirming that Sanctus on his true form is wayyyy stronger then Dante too even before getting DSS.

I never heard that in the game so I'm guessing also novel only. Also contradicted by Sanctus using the Saviour which Dante was able to overwhelm while holding back (why use it like a mecha if it's weaker than he is?), and even without all that Agnus is hardly a reliable source when he also believed (in the game, not just in a questionable novel) that he himself could beat Dante. Agnus couldn't believe it when Dante beat him (leaving aside that Dante stomped him effortlessly), so are we really going to trust his assumption that Dante is weaker than Sanctus? Even Sanctus, after defeating Nero with the Saviour, states that Nero isn't as strong as Dante. And Sanctus said that even while he was underestimating Dante; he didn't believe Dante could fight the Saviour and he did, he believed his Alto Angelo body could beat Dante and got stomped, etc. And unlike when Sanctus fought Nero and wanted to catch him alive, he didn't have any such reason to hold back against Dante when they fought.

V was never relieved with finding Dante because the last time he tried to use him its failed hard and he knows very well that Dante chance are no better then before.

And yet he still had no objections to Dante using the Sparda instead of Nero. He even allowed that after telling Dante that Nero was useless.

Even the end-game Nero that some argue is superior to Dante and Vergil struggles to beat an exhausted Vergil, a Vergil in the same state as when Arkham stomped him in DMC3 while simultaneously admitting that Vergil in good condition would have been stomping him instead. Even Nero's grapple move against Vergil has Vergil overwhelming him in their sword battle until Nero turns it around, and again, this is an already-exhausted Vergil, the same level of exhaustion that allowed Arkham to easily stomp him, even with Dante and Lady helping Vergil, far more decisively than Nero did. So even Nero's win over Vergil ironically proves Vergil and Dante were stronger.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

DMC4 Novel is finnicky.
The same novel has Nero peg Credo as 10 times stronger than Sanctus. Which unironically gives Credo & Sanctus>=Dante.
A surface level read will yeild conclusions such as Nero>Dante and consequently the entire verse by consequence. Which just sounds dumb.

The reason for this misunderstanding is that people think Nero is overwhelmingly stronger than Dante. When in fact it's opposite. It's Dante which all root of problem. He is downplayed as **** in novel. Which makes is seems most of the DMC4 upper echelons are on par if not stronger than Dante.
Entire cast of Fortuna has sound and coherent scaling mostly to each other, but the moment Dante is introduced into it..... everything becomes *******. He is blatantly downplayed, literally made a joke out of himself as far as strength is concerned, when that should not be the case at all.

To that end I plan to settle this matter once and for all, and probably make an official discussion rule out of it too.
Not use DMC4 Dante from novel as any scaling proof. Because he is given the Comic Hero treatment and made in a PIS levels of downplay, like Thor getting choked by sewage wires or Thanos getting bullied by New York citizens. It happens from time to time but we shouldn't take it all seriously.

 

[Random-Helper323]

DMC4 Novel is finnicky.
The same novel has Nero peg Credo as 10 times stronger than Sanctus. Which unironically gives Credo & Sanctus>=Dante.

That also conflicts with everything that happens. If Credo is ten times stronger than Sanctus, it conflicts with Sanctus stomping Credo and with Nero beating Credo and then losing against Sanctus.

A surface level read will yeild conclusions such as Nero>Dante and consequently the entire verse by consequence. Which just sounds dumb.

Sounds like a complete joke overall, if we merge that with DMC4's scaling we get

Dormant Saviour > Nero > Credo > Sanctus = Nero > Dante > Activated Saviour > Dormant Saviour > Nero.

That sort of scaling chain is nothing but an error. A scaling chain that contains loops and contradictions. And I left out the fact that DMC4 clearly shows us that Sanctus > Credo, which would add another glaringly obvious loop into the scaling chain.

To that end I plan to settle this matter once and for all, and probably make an official discussion rule out of it too.
Not use DMC4 Dante from novel as any scaling proof. Because he is given the Comic Hero treatment and made in a PIS levels of downplay, like Thor getting choked by sewage wires or Thanos getting bullied by New York citizens. It happens from time to time but we shouldn't take it all seriously.

Plus it gives us a scaling chain with loops in it, and which directly contradicts the games and everything else.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

That sort of scaling chain is nothing but an error.

It's much much worse....
Like Dante needing DT to counter Agnus' power steal.
Agnus ********** Sanctus to oblivian and pegging Nero stronger than Dante.
Dante slower than Blitz( although this is a case of holding back)
Dante being unable to damage Saviour meaningfully, and would have been "turned to ashes" by Saviour's death beam while in DT!!!!!

The novel, super downplays Dante as if he was a Marvel Comic Hero being disliked by an author. Just PIS on top of PIS just to make Fortuna cast look good in comparison to Dante. It's disgusting, even though in other areas novel is pretty good and I like it.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Why the **** is forrum starring my slurs? Can't I even curse now? Real snowflake moment.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It's much much worse....
Like Dante needing DT to counter Agnus' power steal.
Agnus ********** Sanctus to oblivian and pegging Nero stronger than Dante.
Dante slower than Blitz( although this is a case of holding back)
Dante being unable to damage Saviour meaningfully, and would have been "turned to ashes" by Saviour's death beam while in DT!!!!!

Considering how badly that whole thing contradicts the lore... The Fortuna guys literally got their power by scavenging scraps from Mallet and Dumary Islands. Their "angel" forms are literally rip-offs of Nelo Angelo.

The novel, super downplays Dante as if he was a Marvel Comic Hero being disliked by an author. Just PIS on top of PIS just to make Fortuna cast look good in comparison to Dante. It's disgusting, even though in other areas novel is pretty good and I like it.

Considering that even Itsuno has demonstrated that he doesn't like Dante, that's not a surprise.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

The novel says one thing and does another and almost all the time is about Dante having a walk in the park.

The savior? Hard supposedly hard to destroy but also Nero was inside so Dante was careful and still shoryuken'd its ass

Agnus? Boosted by hell he can beat Dante but gets slapped easily

Nero? Stronger than Dante but sanctus also says Dante is stronger and Nero himself says Dante was only toying with him throughout their fight.

I can point more examples but it's obvious already that narration and the story contradict each other and of course the big bads are only gloating and flaunting their new powers hyping themselves.

We can use the novel just fine, only keep in mind how those contradictions happen and run with the obvious thing

 

[Random-Helper323]

We can use the novel just fine, only keep in mind how those contradictions happen and run with the obvious thing

And keep in mind that if the novel contradicts the game, the game takes priority and supersedes the novel.

 

[Mister6ame6]

You know what, i'm was wanna make a big fat ass argument adressing all this shit, buuuut i'm tired and lazy of debating Nero shit rn

So you guys can close this thread rn, not trying anything anymore imo.