About the New Style for profiles

[Vietthai96]

The reason Sonic profile look absolutely horrendous (No offend to @ElixirBlue ) due to the heavy use of tabber and abilities separation. Like he separating abilities as hard as possible with passive, active, skills and resistance. I don't think it is necessary. Also i usually use up to 2 layer of tabbers, 3 is already very crazy let alone 4 layers

 

[Damage3245]

The reason Sonic profile look absolutely horrendous (No offend to @ElixirBlue ) due to the heavy use of tabber and abilities separation. Like he separating abilities as hard as possible with passive, active, skills and resistance. I don't think it is necessary. Also i usually use up to 2 layer of tabbers, 3 is already very crazy let alone 4 layers

I agree. Tabbers should not be used to that extent.

Dividing abilities between keys, and perhaps dividing abilities from resistances are when tabbers make sense. Not 4 layers of tabbers.

 

[Vietthai96]

I agree. Tabbers should not be used to that extent.

Dividing abilities between keys, and perhaps dividing abilities from resistances are when tabbers make sense. Not 4 layers of tabbers.

i even see two tabbers with 1 tabber have 1 ability, the passive Accelerated Development, the other one have 3 abilities. Which is extremely waste of effort and space

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

I don’t think it looks bad but yeah I do see how others could

 

[Bernkastelll]

God that's ******* awful, my eyes starts bleeding and my body wants to vomit everytime I see a profile in that format, I'm glad that the profiles that I made have literally 0 others scalers, nobody would want to mess that shit lol

Also that's disgusting asf if you try to put that format to profiles with big walls of text

 

[Bernkastelll]

ithin a tabber within a tabber format like on Sonic.

literally impossible to read i dont even know which tabber should I click

 

[Damage3245]

God that's ******* awful, my eyes starts bleeding and my body wants to vomit everytime I see a profile in that format, I'm glad that the profiles that I made have literally 0 others scalers, nobody would want to mess that shit lol

Also that's disgusting asf if you try to put that format to profiles with big walls of text

I mean, you could say the same thing for profiles that have big walls of text already.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I mean, you could say the same thing for profiles that have big walls of text already.

that would just unecessarily increase the size of profiles with walls of text, making it almost unreadable and taking far more time

 

[Damage3245]

that would just unecessarily increase the size of profiles with walls of text, making it almost unreadable and taking far more time

Hence why the scrollboxes are being used at all. (Though some profiles are using them incorrectly)

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean, you could say the same thing for profiles that have big walls of text already.

If they're handled badly yes. Proper link placement makes any textwall perfectly readable.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Yeah this format is like semi-ok for large profiles. But for profiles with 3 powers I vehemently object to using this format.

There are vastly superior ways to list down abilities without resorting to a box with bullet points.

For instance, bolding the abilities and using infoboxes for their explanations.

 

[Armorchompy]

We absolutely need rules for this format, this is getting silly.

 

[Damage3245]

I agree we need to put guidelines in, but that profile isn't doing anything wrong so far as I can tell. There's no out-of-place scrollbox, it has only a few abilities but they're bolded and listed in a clear bullet-point format... It's definitely not too long on the page, so what is the issue?

You just don't like abilities being listed as opposed to being displayed in a paragraph?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Do we? It's just personal opinion right?

Or is this actively causing issue with the wiki in some way? If it's an option and someone likes it, I don't see why we should punish or not allow them to do so.

 

[Armorchompy]

It annoys me that there are two formats running around with absolutely no rules, so you have similar profiles that end up looking really different because of two different formats. It's unprofessional, it's not organized and there is absolutely no reason for it.

 

[Damage3245]

It annoys me that there are two formats running around with absolutely no rules, so you have similar profiles that end up looking really different because of two different formats. It's unprofessional, it's not organized and there is absolutely no reason for it.

1) There's two formats because we don't want to enforce this change on users, not do we want to restrict people to using the previous awful styling.

2) The newer format is mroe organized but its implementation is not because we're not enforcing it on pages.

3) There are many good reasons for it as far as I can tell.

 

[Armorchompy]

previous awful styling.

subjective

2) The newer format is mroe organized but its implementation is not because we're not enforcing it on pages.

subjective

3) There are many good reasons for it as far as I can tell.

list 'em. How is John Cena's profile improved by this format?

 

[TheRustyOne]

I don't understand what you're saying here. It just sounds like a difference of opinion, and you dislike it.

If the argument against it seems to be that there is no consistency, well doesn't that mean this entire format would have to be erased? Because there will be no consistency in uses this whatsoever. Unless there is an actual issue I don't see any reason to restrict access to it, just because someone think it's disorganized.

You saying it's disorganize is also subjective as well.

 

[Damage3245]

list 'em. How is John Cena's profile improved by this format?

Bolded abilities are easier to spot, on the page like how we have bolded ratings.

A list format means it is easier to read down through the list instead of scanning a paragraph.

If I had to choose between:

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Martial Arts (Skilled Wrestler, Has won over 17 championships), Weapon Mastery (Able to utilize tables, ladders, chairs, or even parts of the ring such as the steel stairs efficiently)

And:

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics
• Martial Arts (Skilled Wrestler, Has won over 17 championships)
• Weapon Mastery (Able to utilize tables, ladders, chairs, or even parts of the ring such as the steel stairs efficiently)

Then the latter just makes way more sense to me. Its easier to read. Its easier to spot certain abilities.

 

[Armorchompy]

I don't understand what you're saying here. It just sounds like a difference of opinion, and you dislike it.

I don't see how that's any less legit than you liking it.

If the argument against it seems to be that there is no consistency, well doesn't that mean this entire format would have to be erased? Because there will be no consistency in uses this whatsoever. Unless there is an actual issue I don't see any reason to restrict access to it, just because someone think it's disorganized.

I think it being applied to pages should be approved in CRTs, at least old ones. Which is what was done for Dante's profile and the majority agreed that it was ugly and didn't help.

You saying it's disorganize is also subjective as well.

No, there being two formats used without rhyme or reason is objectively disorganized.

 

[Armorchompy]

Bolded abilities are easier to spot, on the page like how we have bolded ratings.

Who is going to struggle to spot three powers?

A list format means it is easier to read down through the list instead of scanning a paragraph.

Literally nobody is going to find any difficulty in reading Cena's abilities, it's literally two lines.

If I had to choose between:

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Martial Arts (Skilled Wrestler, Has won over 17 championships), Weapon Mastery (Able to utilize tables, ladders, chairs, or even parts of the ring such as the steel stairs efficiently)

And:

• Superhuman Physical Characteristics
• Martial Arts (Skilled Wrestler, Has won over 17 championships)
• Weapon Mastery (Able to utilize tables, ladders, chairs, or even parts of the ring such as the steel stairs efficiently)

Then the latter just makes way more sense to me. Its easier to read. Its easier to spot certain abilities.

Incredibly subjective and disagreeable. Also, misrepresented by the lack of links.

 

[Damage3245]

Who is going to struggle to spot three powers?

I'm speaking more in general.

Literally nobody is going to find any difficulty in reading Cena's abilities, it's literally two lines.

That's not a positive reason to compress it into a paragraph.

Incredibly subjective and disagreeable. Also, misrepresented by the lack of links.

On the contrary, I think it's incredibly objective but you're free to disagree.

Unless you're going to try and tell me that this is a superior way of listing a character's attacks:

Five Knuckle Shuffle: Once an opponent is down, Cena will ricochet off the ropes of the ring and taunt his opponent, before performing a fist drop., Attitude Adjustment: A Fireman's carry into either a powerslam or a standing takeover., Stepover Toehold Facelock: Cena will grab his opponent's leg, lock it between his thighs, lie on top of his opponents back before locking his arm around his opponent's head.

 

[FinePoint]

It's mostly existing long-time members I see arguing vehemently against the change. That's to be expected with any major change.

Personally, I've thought since day one that the wall-of-text format was a ******* eyesore and made me strain to understand where one key ended and another one began, and especially difficult to match the | bars with a particular key if the profile had many of them.

Spaciously it's not as optimal, but for the sake of actual reading comprehension I think it's far superior.

 

[TheRustyOne]

What if people just prefer it to look like that?

Either we get rid of this entirely, or people have the right to use it whenever. There is no restricting this to certain profiles because reasons. Your argument is that it's "disorganized" as it looks different from other profiles, only means you want the entire thing to be gone. Because even one profile having it makes it "disorganized".

Having options is never a bad idea, and I think it's a welcomed addition IF people want to actually use it. No one wants this to be mandatory, just an option for people to use.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm speaking more in general.

I'm not, I'm speaking specifically about this case.

That's not a positive reason to compress it into a paragraph.

It literally is.

On the contrary, I think it's incredibly objective but you're free to disagree.

"I think" "it's objective"

lmao

Unless you're going to try and tell me that this is a superior way of listing a character's attacks:

Five Knuckle Shuffle: Once an opponent is down, Cena will ricochet off the ropes of the ring and taunt his opponent, before performing a fist drop., Attitude Adjustment: A Fireman's carry into either a powerslam or a standing takeover., Stepover Toehold Facelock: Cena will grab his opponent's leg, lock it between his thighs, lie on top of his opponents back before locking his arm around his opponent's head.

Cool, that's not P&A, so it's not the same thing. Also again a complete misrepresentation, as P&A has blue links that help space out the text, and this doesn't.

What if people just prefer it to look like that?

What if people don't? It's a two-way thing, and it takes just one guy to add it to a profile, as has happened for something like Sonic, to my understanding.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I think the problem lies in a profile that uses the old system made by user who likes the old system. Who lays claim to the stylings of the profile? The new user who wants to change it? Or the original poster?

This is the immediate problem of free reign at the moment. Because nothing is stopping me from changing all the new formats I see back into the old format.

 

[Damage3245]

Cool, that's not P&A, so it's not the same thing. Also again a complete misrepresentation, as P&A has blue links that help space out the text, and this doesn't.

It is the same thing in principle to me.

They're both lists. Are you saying you'd be fine with listing notable attacks like that if the names of the attacks were colored blue?

What if people don't? It's a two-way thing, and it takes just one guy to add it to a profile, as has happened for something like Sonic, to my understanding.

There's supposed to be CRTs for implementing it.

 

[Armorchompy]

It's mostly existing long-time members I see arguing vehemently against the change. That's to be expected with any major change.

Brother, Damage has been on site twice as long as I have. And so has Rusty.

Personally, I've thought since day one that the wall-of-text format was a ******* eyesore and made me strain to understand where one key ended and another one began, and especially difficult to match the | bars with a particular key if the profile had many of them.

I feel just as negatively about the new one, as it happens.

 

[Damage3245]

I think the problem lies in a profile that uses the old system made by user who likes the old system. Who lays claim to the stylings of the profile? The new user who wants to change it? Or the original poster?

If a user makes a brand new page, they decide the format. But it can be changed in a CRT.

For an existing profile, it can be changed in a CRT.

The ones who "lays cliam" to it is the community, decided upon in a thread.

 

[Armorchompy]

It is the same thing in principle to me.

I literally explained why they aren't.

They're both lists. Are you saying you'd be fine with listing notable attacks like that if the names of the attacks were colored blue?

It wouldn't be good because NA&T have longer explanations on average and aren't separated by parenthesis which makes them more difficult to parse. But yes, assuming they were bolded too, it'd be fine, though this is still a false equivalence.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

If a user makes a brand new page, they decide the format. But it can be changed in a CRT.

For an existing profile, it can be changed in a CRT.

The ones who "lays cliam" to it is the community, decided upon in a thread.

This seems excessive. We've never had to have CRTs for profile adjustments before. People have edited profiles to fix formatting for years without ever needing to make a CRT for it. Hell, it's encouraged. That's how we get Content Mods.

We just need solid standards for this. Either all of them use the new system, or none of them do.

 

[Damage3245]

I literally explained why they aren't.

It wouldn't be good because NA&T have longer explanations on average and aren't separated by parenthesis which makes them more difficult to parse. But yes, assuming they were bolded too, it'd be fine, though this is still a false equivalence.

Your explanation is fine for you, but not for me.

I don't see it as a false equivalence; the root issue is how we display information to the user. If you're arguing for a wall of text that is more difficult to read, then I'm going to have to disagree with you.

Must I bring out the screenshot of Garou's old Powers & Abilities section?

If you're going to tell me that this is preferable to the current format, then we will just never see eye to eye on this.

 

[Damage3245]

This seems excessive. We've never had to have CRTs for profile adjustments before. People have edited profiles to fix formatting for years without ever needing to make a CRT for it. Hell, it's encouraged. That's how we get Content Mods.

We just need solid standards for this. Either all of them use the new system, or none of them do.

I agree it's excessive. Deciding on the big formatting changes in a CRT was a suggestion from earlier on to make sure there are edit wars later with people disagreeing over which format to take.

But there's a difference between just "fixing" formatting and switching over to a new style like this.

If we have to do choose with all of them using the new system, I'd be fine with that, but the lack of enforcement is meant to not alienate users.

 

[FinePoint]

Brother, Damage has been on site twice as long as I have. And so has Rusty.

I didn't say that every long-time member disagreed with it, just that anytime change happens (in general), people who are accustomed to the old way of doing things will complain, even nobody is forcing it on them.

I feel just as negatively about the new one, as it happens.

You can feel however you want, but decisions can and have historically been made based on opinions. The entire legal system is technically subjective, our code of ethics is subjective, whether a restaurant should serve raw cow's blood or steak is technically subjective.

You're able to analyze subjective decisions on a statistical and logical basis and come to a conclusion about what's going to work best for most people, and as a community which is public general audiences should be kept in mind. To many new users just getting started in battleboarding and scaling, a massive wall of text loosely separated by a single in-text vertical line is likely intimidating and confusing.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Your explanation is fine for you, but not for me.

I don't see it as a false equivalence; the root issue is how we display information to the user. If you're arguing for a wall of text that is more difficult to read, then I'm going to have to disagree with you.

Must I bring out the screenshot of Garou's old Powers & Abilities section?

If you're going to tell me that this is preferable to the current format, then we will just never see eye to eye on this.

It's a nuanced problem. You can't read anything because nothing is distinguished from another. P&A links are blue, but so are the scan links. If we just opted for the nav boxes for explanations, and bolded powers, it should be fine, if not better at the very least.

 

[Armorchompy]

Your explanation is fine for you, but not for me.

Oh my god yes, it's all subjective, good job on figuring it out. I still made actual arguments tho, so there's that.

I don't see it as a false equivalence; the root issue is how we display information to the user. If you're arguing for a wall of text that is more difficult to read, then I'm going to have to disagree with you.

Must I bring out the screenshot of Garou's old Powers & Abilities section?

Yeah, cause it was fine

If you're going to tell me that this is preferable to the current format, then we will just never see eye to eye on this.

Wtf is up with your PC? It's more spaced out on mine. Anyway that profile's linking isn't optimal, linking to only one or two words would greatly improve the readability. So yes, once that is done, it would be.

 

[Bernkastelll]

If a user makes a brand new page, they decide the format. But it can be changed in a CRT.

For an existing profile, it can be changed in a CRT.

The ones who "lays cliam" to it is the community, decided upon in a thread.

This seems a really bad thing.

People that worked for several months to create a good profile with a good design (the old one) being forced to change to something awful just because some people wants it to?

 

[Armorchompy]

I didn't say that every long-time member disagreed with it, just that anytime change happens (in general), people who are accustomed to the old way of doing things will complain, even nobody is forcing it on them.

Look, if you're gonna call me an out of touch boomer, go ahead, that is still a non-argument.

You can feel however you want, but decisions can and have historically been made based on opinions. The entire legal system is technically subjective, our code of ethics is subjective, whether a restaurant should serve raw cow's blood or steak is technically subjective.

You're able to analyze subjective decisions on a statistical and logical basis and come to a conclusion about what's going to work best for most people, and as a community which is public general audiences should be kept in mind. To many new users just getting started in battleboarding and scaling, a massive wall of text loosely separated by a single in-text vertical line is likely intimidating and confusing.

I see no proof that the community as a whole feels that way and have seen various negative opinions on the new format.

 

[TheRustyOne]

We just need solid standards for this. Either all of them use the new system, or none of them do.

I have no opinion on the new style, but if the argument people are using is that it makes the wiki look disorganized or inconsistent.

The above is the only option. Do people agree that this format makes the wiki as a whole disorganized and inconsistent?

 

[FinePoint]

Look, if you're gonna call me an out of touch boomer, go ahead, that is still a non-argument.

I do not wish to insult you in any way. I was merely making an explanatory observation that some resistance to change is a pattern that is expected.