Silver Fang's speed redux

[Lightning_XXI]

While I'll say my opinion on the matter, take this as an invite to discuss this again and, hopefully, wrap this up

As we know, during Cap 153, Forfeit, Silver Fang and Garou finished their fight with an obvious victory for the Hero Hunter, while Bang did put up a good fight. In this case, however, Garou was sleeping, and only really started to wake up during Cap 154, page 16, when he one shot Fuhrer Ugly and made all that Subsonic mess against Platinum Sperm and ENW, and after that, he was awake enough to analyze his surroundings and, on total reflex, dodges one of Flash's attacks. This is basically what gave Bang his Likely Relativistic+ Combat and Reaction speed, the "likely" is thanks to Garou being asleep during the battle

Now, I changed sides on this from agreeing to not agreeing, and eventually, I do not agree

The main point in scaling Awake Garou dodging the attack to Asleep Garou is because he did on instinct/reflex, that being what allows him to fight asleep in the first place, but that also assumes Flash using his max known speed during that kick, which is, for me, rather unlikely

Flash certainly bases his style on speed which he confirms himself, but he does hold back enough to people slower than him dodge. Note that at this moment, Flash didn't knew they were Hellfire and Gale, he just attacked his random opponent before anything else, a similar situation to his kick against Garou. Even after knowing more about his opponents (Ninjas, so likely fast enemies), he still held back for quite a while, only using his current Relativistic+ speed at the very end of the fight, where he had a plan to take both of them with a single slash). His fight against Garou and Platinum showed him pushing himself to the "Flashy" attacks and even the Flowing Shadow Feet, which, certainly, allows us to say he was going all out there (He kinda has those Forbidden Techniques aswell, but anyway), and, against Blast, he indeed started with the Maximum Speed Flashy Kicks, this, however, is no normal situation, as Flash knew that man was Blast, and wanted to test him. The same "non max speed" approach happened against the Demon level Octopus, which after Flash stabbed its eyes, he implied to start using more of his power, until Tatsumaki arrived. Therefore, my conclusion is that saying Flash was using his max known speed (Relativistic+) in that kick is iffy on its own and goes against the overall in character showings from him, but the problems don't end up here

Next I'll be quoting @GreatIskandar14045's logic

Not only that Garou was unconscious when he fought Bang and Bomb, at the time when he woke which is obviously... he goes much better than he was at his sleep (like when he was fighting against Darkshine)

This is backed up by the fight, as we see how it goes from a rather one sided match where Darkshine has no problem in keeping up with him to something a little closer, with Garou managing to surprise him, react to him and dodge his attacks, in both situations, Darkshine wasn't going all out, but he has no reason to go slower after Garou woke up, so him actually pushing Darkshine to go all out and reacting to what he couldn't before is a clear indication that his speed is higher, one could say that it is a matter of better skill, but that doesn't make you faster. Also note how this does not come from the later part of the battle, where Garou started to evolve, and it's only to show the difference in speed between awake and Asleep Garou

Lastly, as we saw in his fight against Darkshine and his fight against Platinum Sperm in Cap 156, Garou evolves fast when awake, from keeping up with Flash, to keeping up Platinum (Who's faster) to blitzing him in the end, with a direct statement of him getting faster. The chances of him being faster after he woke up are clear and even hinted by the narrative with the timer and how beings this fast are overall showcased (traces of light, timers, etc)

So, conclusion (again), of what goes against Bang's likely scaling

- Garou might be faster after he woke up by evolving

- Garou is faster after he woke up because he showcased better speed feats after he woke up against Darkshine

- Bang's scaling depends on Flash using his maximum speed during the first kick against Garou, which goes against Flash's in character behavior

Awakening Breath's bang speed should be be changed from Likely Relativistic+ to "At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher" or similar

What you guys think ?

 

[ByAsura]

Garou’s shown to get stronger, faster and more durable through adversity, like becoming Awakened Garou after being partially crushed by rubble.

I’d say the Explosive Release Fist Bang hit him with can certainly qualify for adversity.

A problem this poses is AB Bang’s new Attack Potency.

 

[Kin201]

Yeah, I guess we can say bye bye for Rel+ Bang with this. It causes some scaling problems such as Bomb reacting to his fight with Garou with absolute ease. Which is what people were arguing in the discussion thread. It is impossible for Bomb to even see them if Bang is actually Rel+, and therefore 500 times faster than him. Unless we have to do something such as upgrading Bomb's reactions, which I don't prefer honestly.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Garou’s shown to get stronger, faster and more durable through adversity, like becoming Awakened Garou after being partially crushed by rubble.

I’d say the Explosive Release Fist Bang hit him with can certainly qualify for adversity.

A problem this poses is AB Bang’s new Attack Potency.

I was so focused on his speed, that I forgot about the AP part. And yeah, chances are Garou evolved after the fight and only then he scaled to Platinum

 

[Damage3245]

Awakening Breath's bang speed should be be changed from Likely Relativistic+ to "At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher" or similar

Sure, I'm fine with this.

 

[ByAsura]

We can probably just give Garou and Bang Higher with Awakened Breath, while Post-Molt EC/Post-Superfight Garou’s strongest attack can be at least City level since vaguely being stronger than the power needed to immobilise someone isn’t enough for the 1.8x difference between 30.5 megatons and City level+.

 

[Quangotjokes]

I agree to the revision

 

[Kachon123]

I agree with the revision

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Garou’s shown to get stronger, faster and more durable through adversity, like becoming Awakened Garou after being partially crushed by rubble.

I’d say the Explosive Release Fist Bang hit him with can certainly qualify for adversity.

A problem this poses is AB Bang’s new Attack Potency.

I'm pretty sure that Garou was the one using Explosive Release Fist while Bang stuck to Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist.

 

[Kachon123]

I'm pretty sure that Garou was the one using Explosive Release Fist while Bang stuck to Water Stream Rock Smashing Fist.

Correct

 

[ByAsura]

You’re right, I was misremembering.

But you could still classify the damage/fight itself as enough reason.

 

[Theendzero13]

Seens fine

 

[Nehz_XZX]

You’re right, I was misremembering.

But you could still classify the damage/fight itself as enough reason.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I disagree and Bang does scale in speed to Rel+

 

[Magmag]

I disagree and Bang does scale in speed to Rel+

Elixir on the smoke

 

[ElixirBlue]

Garou might be faster after he woke up by evolving

Even so, during the fight with Darkshine, Darkshine was still reacting and pulling arms up to guard against Garou’s incoming attacks later down into their fight quite some time after Garou woke up.

The claim Garou became unreasonably faster than Bang when he woke up is something I don’t agree happened.

 

[ElixirBlue]

The main point in scaling Awake Garou dodging the attack to Asleep Garou is because he did on instinct/reflex, that being what allows him to fight asleep in the first place, but that also assumes Flash using his max known speed during that kick, which is, for me, rather unlikely

That isn’t the only reason. Garou knocked Platinum Sperm up as Garou was waking up (Summoned by King). Sure, PS wasn’t paying attention, but that would assume PS’s reaction speed is far slower than his later showings and slower than ENW who was taken out by “asleep” Garou, if Garou didn’t wake up till after ENW was gone.

 

[GyroNutz]

Awakening Breath's bang speed should be be changed from Likely Relativistic+ to "At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher" or similar

I agree

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Thank you for all the replies

Even so, during the fight with Darkshine, Darkshine was still reacting and pulling arms up to guard against Garou’s incoming attacks later down into their fight quite some time after Garou woke up.

The claim Garou became unreasonably faster than Bang when he woke up is something I don’t agree happened.

That wasn't the point

Darkshine clearly tracked Garou's attacks and precisely punched him away, while awake Garou managed to evade his attacks and counter attack. The difference in speed is clear, it may not be huge, but that's why the likely higher comes from on my suggestion, we don't have an exact middle ground between the S Class normal speed and the speedsters, regardless, Garou is faster after awakening, the scaling between Bang and Garou ends the moment he wakes up

That isn’t the only reason. Garou knocked Platinum Sperm up as Garou was waking up (Summoned by King). Sure, PS wasn’t paying attention, but that would assume PS’s reaction speed is far slower than his later showings and slower than ENW who was taken out by “asleep” Garou, if Garou didn’t wake up till after ENW was gone.

I don't really understand this point ?

Platinum's absolute focus was King at that time, someone who he believes to be stronger than Tatsumaki, and that was the case even after Garou went for him, we can't really take his Reaction speed into account to something he isn't even seeing or paying attention, you can certainly get hit by something that you would normally dodge if said object is completely outside your vision (can't count how many times this happened to me or to many other characters in fiction).

I didn't think PS was being used as evidence for Bang, so I didn't talk about him in the OP

if Garou didn’t wake up till after ENW was gone

He woke up before he attacked Platinum Sperm and ENW

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Awakening Breath's bang speed should be be changed from Likely Relativistic+ to "At least Massively Hypersonic, likely higher" or similar

I agree

 

[Nullflowerblush]

If Garou is moving off of pure instinct, then he is most likely moving at his top speed, unless his impulse to hold back.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Darkshine clearly tracked Garou's attacks and precisely punched him away, while awake Garou managed to evade his attacks and counter attack. The difference in speed is clear, it may not be huge, but that's why the likely higher comes from on my suggestion, we don't have an exact middle ground between the S Class normal speed and the speedsters, regardless, Garou is faster after awakening, the scaling between Bang and Garou ends the moment he wakes up

The topic is saying Garou jumped from

At least Massively Hypersonic

to

Relativistic+

Upon waking up. Issues when it comes to that logic is when discussing Darkshine's fight with Garou.

1. Darkshine makes no mention that Garou's speed increased between Sleeping and Waking. Even after Garou starts dodging Darkshine's attacks, Darkshine only makes mention of it at the end of 126 while Garou was doing his barrage and even then, Darkshine at first thought the speed increase was his imagination.

2. Despite increasing his speed in chapter 126 and dodging Darkshine's in that chapter, as their fight contiunes into chapter 129, Darkshine is still capable of reacting to Garou's speed. That wouldn't be possible, if Garou's increases were so huge so quickly like the gap between Massively Hypersonic and Relativistic+

Platinum's absolute focus was King at that time,

That part of absolute focus isn't accurate by definition, since he had spared enough of his focus on the battlefield around him to knock out the rest of the S Class while King was in front of him. Heck, if we were to follow that interpretation of Platinum's absolute focus, he shouldn't have spared any focus on the surround S Class once he heard of King's Ultimate Attack.

He woke up before he attacked Platinum Sperm and ENW

Then I missed remember that. I thought he attacked Platinum and ENW out of instinct, since Awake Garou's motivation of rescuing King and defeating 3 monsters is unclear about him at this time.

 

[ElixirBlue]

If Garou is moving off of pure instinct, then he is most likely moving at his top speed, unless his impulse to hold back.

Thats true too

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Agree with the downgrade, obviously.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

1. Darkshine makes no mention that Garou's speed increased between Sleeping and Waking. Even after Garou starts dodging Darkshine's attacks, Darkshine only makes mention of it at the end of 126 while Garou was doing his barrage and even then, Darkshine at first thought the speed increase was his imagination.

And somehow that makes the scans I linked don't count ? Statements are one way of having information, feats are one other way to retrieve them, we see Garou react to what he wasn't reacting, then the speed gap is there

2. Despite increasing his speed in chapter 126 and dodging Darkshine's in that chapter, as their fight contiunes into chapter 129, Darkshine is still capable of reacting to Garou's speed. That wouldn't be possible, if Garou's increases were so huge so quickly like the gap between Massively Hypersonic and Relativistic+

Darkshine wasn't going all out at the beggining of the fight, that much is clear. My case uses the fact that Darkshine started the fight casually, tracked down every movement from Garou, then Garou woke up and started to react and counter attack him, at that moment, Darkshine had no reasonable reason to be attacking more slowly, so Garou's speed has already increased, after that, Darkshine begins to fight for real

I'll talk about the other point at the ending

That part of absolute focus isn't accurate by definition, since he had spared enough of his focus on the battlefield around him to knock out the rest of the S Class while King was in front of him. Heck, if we were to follow that interpretation of Platinum's absolute focus, he shouldn't have spared any focus on the surround S Class once he heard of King's Ultimate Attack.

I also didn't understood this one

The scan I linked to you was Platinum focused after he took down the S Class, and he did that because he didn't wanted any King follower around, who were all loudly rooting for the hero, after that, what was distracting Platinum there ? With the other ones down for good, he had no other focus besides King, this makes no sense

Then I missed remember that. I thought he attacked Platinum and ENW out of instinct, since Awake Garou's motivation of rescuing King and defeating 3 monsters is unclear about him at this tim.

I think it was his "I don't care if it's hero or monster" style, since the very reason why he fought both FF and PS was because "absolute evil is unbiased"

Anyway, you assumed we have a Massively Hypersonic - Relativistic+ gap here only by waking up, but that ignores the other points I made here in the OP: His evolution

As quoted by ByAsura earlier:

Garou’s shown to get stronger, faster and more durable through adversity, like becoming Awakened Garou after being partially crushed by rubble.

I’d say the Explosive Release Fist Bang hit him with can certainly qualify for adversity.

A problem this poses is AB Bang’s new Attack Potency.

Just a heads up, he later corrected his post, Bang used other technique, but the logic is the same

While I'm neutral on his Attack Potency, he makes a good case on what triggers Garou's evolution, not only Garou woke up soon after Bang's defeat, but he also had reasons to evolve, going by all of his showing against hard enemies (which is basically the definition of Reactive Power Level), as his power increases rapidly when fighting strong opponents, that's also very clearly showcased by his fight against Platinum

Basically, the MHS/Rel+ gap mentioned by you doesn't happen only by Garou waking up, but also has his own evolution and reactive power level into account. His showing against the distracted Platinum Sperm and the Casual Flashy Flash are also invalid as I explained here and in the OP. That also covers your points for Darkshine and the gap

Again, thanks for all the replies

 

[ElixirBlue]

And somehow that makes the scans I linked don't count ? Statements are one way of having information, feats are one other way to retrieve them, we see Garou react to what he wasn't reacting, then the speed gap is there

Yeah, but the feat you are using, in Darkshine's eyes, that wasn't an increase in speed. Its part of the narrative Darkshine didn't see Garou increasing in speed till the barrage.

Rereading, Garou wasn't dodging. He used the Water Stream Fist to move the direction of Darkshine's fist away from him.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Even if you assume that conscious Garou doesn't get a massive speed amp over his sleep mode, I just don't understand why would you'll scale Bang to Garou who has most likely grown faster and faster at the time after his awakening.

 

[ElixirBlue]

most likely grown faster

Most likely grown by waking up based on what tho?

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Most likely grown by waking up based on what?

You twisted the meaning of my comment, I said he grown faster after he woke up, which is a thing, since his acceleration/passive reactive power level is a thing. As well, if Garou gets stronger during his awakening then assuming he gets faster too is fairly the safest interpretation in order to not **** up these speed scalings.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Garou gets faster with evolution, literally stated by the narrator during his fight with Platinum Sperm and by his speed section

 

[ElixirBlue]

Garou gets faster with evolution, literally stated by the narrator during his fight with Platinum Sperm

Yes, and shown against Darkshine but Darkshine was still able to react later in their fight.

You twisted the meaning of my comment, I said he grown faster after he woke up, which is a thing, since his acceleration/passive reactive evolution is a thing. As well, if Garou gets stronger after he wake up then assuming he gets faster too is fairly the safest interpretation in order to not **** up these speed scalings.

Against Darkshine, Darkshine didn't think Garou increased his speed when he woke up. Darkshine's fist was not dodge by newly awaken Garou but he was redirected by the Water Stream Fist. It was only during the barrage later, after Garou had his chest broken, that Darkshine noticed Garou increasing in speed.



How would the speed scaling get ****** up? If I recall, nobody had upscale from Bang or him in his breathing technique in speed prior. Bomb reacting to the fight doesn't really matter here, since Asleep Garou didn't use the breathing technique to increase his speed til after he defeated Bomb. Also, Bomb was weaken before fighting Garou, if you want to use that.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Against Darkshine, Darkshine didn't think Garou increased his speed when he woke up. Darkshine's fist was not dodge by newly awaken Garou but he was redirected by the Water Stream Fist. It was only during the barrage later, after Garou had his chest broken, that Darkshine noticed Garou increasing in speed.

That's not the context I'm talking about. Garou is capable to increase his speed passively (thanks to his monsterization), so assuming that Bang scales to Garou who dodged Flash's kick, after a fairly long time span after his fight against Bomb and Bang (which in this time he most likely had passively increased his speed already), is a big assumption that needs to be proven with big evidence.

How would the speed scaling get ****** up? If I recall, nobody had upscale from Bang in speed prior. Bomb reacting to the fight doesn't really matter here, since Asleep Garou didn't use the breathing technique to increase his speed til after he defeated Bomb. Also, Bomb was weaken before fighting Garou, if you want to use that.

Now, you're assuming that he got hundreds of times speed amp (means MHS to Rel+) with Awakening Breath when no one's noticing, when there's no narrative implication suggesting that way, not even mention that the latter Rel+ feat (Garou ducking Flash), was happened when Garou was kind of casual. That, and bringing my previous argument, Murata put a timer there (the first one, in Subsonic Garou stuffs) in order to highlight his speed, that was a narrative depiction that Garou got much faster after waking up from his sleep. Because the latter Garou is just faster, that's all.

Edit:

So summary:
First, he wakes up.
Second, his passive evolution.

 

[Therefir]

Garou literally went from fighting Platinum Sperm in equal grounds to blitzing him in mere milliseconds, so I'm not sure who you are trying to convince saying he can't go from MHS to Rel+.

I agree with the downgrade as well.

 

[Damage3245]

Yes, and shown against Darkshine but Darkshine was still able to react later in their fight.

Not to the extent of being equal to Garou though. He was clearly struggling, and he was being massively overwhelmed by Garou as the fight went on.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Garou literally went from fighting Platinum Sperm in equal grounds to blitzing him in mere milliseconds, so I'm not sure who you are trying to convince saying he can't go from MHS to Rel+.

Yeah, Garou evolves far to rapidly in every encounter to attempt to backscale someone to a later feat he preformed. Garou going 100% against PS likely 10/10s the Garou from 5 minutes ago.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Garou literally went from fighting Platinum Sperm in equal grounds to blitzing him in mere milliseconds, so I'm not sure who you are trying to convince saying he can't go from MHS to Rel+.

Garou went from MHS to Rel+ standing around? Garou blitzed PS through Combat and Garou gets stronger through combat, not stronger by defeating an enemy.

Not to the extent of being equal to Garou though. He was clearly struggling, and he was being massively overwhelmed by Garou as the fight went on.

Not to the extent of being equal to Garou, but the problem is the downgrade implies Garou can blitz Bang instantly right after the fight ended by either:

A. Because he woke up, which was not the case against Darkshine. Darkshine didn’t note there was a speed increase when Garou woke up and Garou didn’t dodge his attack before his barrage but used WSF move the direction of Darkshine’s strike.

B. Defeating Bang gave him another level like an RPG character, when Garou only evolves through combat, not through defeating his enemy.

 

[ElixirBlue]

That's not the context I'm talking about. Garou is capable to increase his speed passively

Through Combat. Metal Bat’s “Fighting Spirit” that Garou’s narrative had implied to have previously copied during his fight against Gyro Gyro and Orochi to get stronger through struggle. And yes, Garou is capable of copying others.

There is no implications in the series Garou gets stronger by standing around. (Well, other than “Old Man can’t scale to Flashy cause he is Old Man”)

Now, you're assuming that he got hundreds of times speed amp (means MHS to Rel+) with Awakening Breath when no one's noticing

First, Bang was “At least MHS” because all his previous speed feats were casual.

Second, Awakening Breath was noticed by Bang and Bomb when Garou used it. Bomb had no reason to comment on Bang using it since he knew about the technique Bang has.

with Awakening Breath when no one's noticing, when there's no narrative implication suggesting that way,

Yes, there is narrative implications of the Awakening Breath was going to boost Bang to far higher stats when he was about to use it against Elder Centipede to possibly defeat him (which that “possibly” might turn into “likely” with whatever happens with Sage Centipede)

not even mention that the latter Rel+ feat (Garou ducking Flash), was happened when Garou was kind of casual.

How does the Awakening Breath turn off and why is Garou’s expression “What the ****?!” viewed as casual?

Murata put a timer there (the first one, in Subsonic Garou stuffs) in order to highlight his speed, that was a narrative depiction that Garou got much faster after waking up from his sleep. Because the latter Garou is just faster, that's all.

That timer was more for King’s gag on Metal Bat than for Garou, since Murata never uses a timer for Garou’s speed increases or anything else in the series for that matter, only had done so for a normal human stat King’s perspective. :V

The timer was meant to imply King’s Ultimate Attack was instant to Metal Bat and King himself and to show Garou wasn’t traveling at speeds King could follow.

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

Will give quick responds, exams.

Through Combat. Metal Bat’s “Fighting Spirit” that Garou’s narrative had implied to have previously copied during his fight against Gyro Gyro and Orochi to get stronger through struggle. And yes, Garou is capable of copying others.

Exactly.

There is no implications in the series Garou gets stronger by standing around. (Well, other than “Old Man can’t scale to Flashy cause he is Old Man”)

Do you forget him ******* around with his Subsonic stuffs, though?

First, Bang was “At least MHS” because all his previous speed feats were casual.

They aren't casual, they are full speed.

There's even an implication that Bomb is stronger than base Bang via Murata if my memory serves me right. Awakening Breath pushed Bang towards his very limits (like Meteoric Burst does, although nowhere that extreme) doesn't make them casual.

Second, Awakening Breath was noticed by Bang and Bomb when Garou used it. Bomb had no reason to comment on Bang using it since he knew about the technique Bang has.

Going by your nitpicking previous logic here (Garou vs Darkshine), no offense, there's nothing suggest that he gets MUCH faster since it was never blatantly stated. Also, 1 to hundreds of time is a ******* big leap.

Yes, there is narrative implications of the Awakening Breath was going to boost Bang to far higher stats when he was about to use it against Elder Centipede to possibly defeat him (which that “possibly” might turn into “likely” with whatever happens with Sage Centipede)

Unquantifiably higher stats, yes. Again, that doesn't mean his power and speed get increased to hundreds of times with little to no evidence.

How does the Awakening Breath turn off and why is Garou’s expression “What the ****?!” viewed as casual?

Because Garou was off-guard, translating he could've done much better if he was prepared.

As well, this scaling is flawed. If Garou was Rel+ with Awakening Breath than how could he dodged Flash's kick when it was off (and off-guard)? Yes, another proof if he gets massively faster on time to time.

That timer was more for King’s gag on Metal Bat than for Garou, since Murata never uses a timer for Garou’s speed increases or anything else in the series for that matter, only had done so for a normal human stat King’s perspective. :V

The timer was meant to imply King’s Ultimate Attack was instant to Metal Bat and King himself and to show Garou wasn’t traveling at speeds King could follow.

All of them are correct, it's Murata's way highlighting the speed feats (correlating with King's gag scene that it was so fast that no one knew it was Garou vs PS and ENW), and let's not forget that no one were capable of reacting it on the first place, like Metal Bat and possibly Genos if he see it.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Do you forget him ******* around with his Subsonic stuffs, though?

What does that have to do with Garou standing around and passively getting faster? Garou gets stronger through conflict and fights, not One Shotting monsters.

First, Bang was “At least MHS” because all his previous speed feats were casual.

They aren't casual, they are full speed.

Bang’s MHS justifications:

• Atomic Samurai considered him to be very fast
• Outran a falling spaceship and three other S class heroes including Atomic Samurai himself.
• Easily dodged and repelled all of Metal Bat's swings during a sparring match.
• Easily blitzed Fuhrer Ugly

Sorry, no, none of them implies “full speed”.

Going by your nitpicking previous logic here (Garou vs Darkshine), no offense, there's nothing suggest that he gets MUCH faster since it was never blatantly stated. Also, 1 to hundreds of time is a ******* big leap.

Er, yes, Bang scaling to Garou just as Garou scaling to Flashy. Either way, there’s a “******* big leap” happening. The Awaking Breath may include Bang but it is an actually stat increase technique, instead of a phantom increase out of nowhere caused by nothing consistent in the story the thread is implying for Garou after his fight with Bang.

Unquantifiably higher stats, yes. Again, that doesn't mean his power and speed get increased to hundreds of times with little to no evidence.

Yes, fighting Garou is the quantifiable increase for the Awakening Breath finally given after being unqualified against Elder Centipede.

Because Garou was off-guard, translating he could've done much better if he was prepared.

Why does Garou being prepared makes him faster than his instincts?

As well, this scaling is flawed. If Garou was Rel+ with Awakening Breath than how could he dodged Flash's kick when it was off (and off-guard)?

His Instinctual reaction? What scan or part of the story makes his instinct speed slower than his conscious speed?

All of them are correct, it's Murata's way highlighting the speed feats (correlating with King's gag scene that it was so fast that no one knew it was Garou vs PS and ENW), and let's not forget that no one were capable of reacting it on the first place, like Metal Bat and possibly Genos if he see it.

Metal has no Rel+ feats as of yet and Genos only sense, not actually saw the attacks. And Metal Bat only saw the smoke from a distance and knew King was over there.

ENW’s speed scales below Atomic, who deflected its attack. Atomic almost got kill by Ugly’s speed, who reacted and turned around to Darkshine’s speed. Darkshine tagged Garou’s speed, who had just outran some of Orochi’s attacks. Garou had just surpassed Darkshine’s speed. Darkshine couldn’t tag Bang. Both Garou and Bang blitzed Ugly. Garou’s stopped for a moment before turning to ENW, which allowed ENW to react and try to attack Garou.

Forgetting Flashy and Tats for a moment, which hero can tag Bang?

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

If no one give respond to @ElixirBlue within next week, I'll do it myself after my exams are finished.

But it's not a promise, though.