Alive Minato vs EMS Sasuke

[Crayons]

That's not his own strength. Kurama is only a summon he has under very specific circumstances.

Yeah he had Hashirama cells. That means EMS>Hashirama Cells+SM

No, it just means Base Kabuto is stronger than Base Sasuke.

Itachi was sick when he was alive, which significantly hampered his stats. You can't seriously be suggesting Hebi Sasuke and EMS Sasuke have relative speed.

I don't care about foot speed, I'm talking about combat speed.

Sasuke only had his 3T Sharingan active when he clashed with Base Naruto.

Yes he had 3 Tomoe Sharingan + Rinnengan.

Huh? Since when EMS Madara > Alive Madara with Hashirama Cells + SM? Have you seen it? He took all biju down with Sage Mode Hashirama. Madara didnt even get hurt ^_^ I doubt that EMS Madara on his past can take on 9 biju by himself at the same time.

Yes Hebi Sasuke and EMS Sasuke have relative speed. Hebi Sasuke was able to fight Raikage.. MS Doesnt give character boost movement. Otherwise MS Sasuke could speed blitz Raikage.. Just look at Hebi Sasuke vs Bee. Base Bee speed also able to match 4th Raikage speed in Raiton Mode.

The only difference between MS and EMS is firepower and usage ^_^

Even in War Arc Kakashi vs Obito at Dimension ^_^ kakashi still could tag Obito. So those so called LIGHT SPEED what so ever, I dont know where you get them from. If someone can move at Light Speed or Massively Hypersonic Speed, they would instantly appear in 100ft distance. The Distance between Naruto vs Sasuke at valley of end isn't even 100 meter apart.

Maybe you dont know how long 100 meter is

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yes he had 3 Tomoe Sharingan + Rinnengan.

Huh? Since when EMS Madara > Alive Madara with Hashirama Cells + SM? Have you seen it? He took all biju down with Sage Mode Hashirama. Madara didnt even get hurt ^_^ I doubt that EMS Madara on his past can take on 9 biju by himself at the same time.

Yes Hebi Sasuke and EMS Sasuke have relative speed. Hebi Sasuke was able to fight Raikage.. MS Doesnt give character boost movement. Otherwise MS Sasuke could speed blitz Raikage.. Just look at Hebi Sasuke vs Bee. Base Bee speed also able to match 4th Raikage speed in Raiton Mode

That's still 3T Sasuke.

Since Hashirama said it.

Madara did very much get hurt.

Hebi Sasuke never fought Ay. That was FKS Sasuke, who was specifically stated to be stronger than Hebi Sasuke.

Also EMS Sasuke matched/surpassed Mastered KCM Naruto's speed, who's way faster than the V1 Ay that FKS Sasuke fought.

Bee got much stronger and faster in the WA. In the FKS arc, V1 Bee was relative to V1 Ay.

 

[Crayons]

First, That wasnt even Kisame, that was White Zetsu..We all know white zetsu speed isn't impressive. Even Fodder was matching those white zetsu.

So you show Sasuke with 3 Tomoe Sharingan Running with KCM Naruto? it means hes fast? Didnt Sakura also run with them at the same time ^_^. So Base Sakura speed match EMS Sasuke + KCM Naruto. Nice Logic Even 6th Gate Lee was faster than Jubidara attack

Sorry but EMS Sasuke still had limited with chakra. EMS Sasuke got destroyed by SM Kabuto speed. Even It was stated that Sage Mode Naruto isn't faster than KCM Naruto, but it give better reaction time. Minato reaction is faster than EMS Sasuke.

Even if Minato isn't good at handling Sage Mode, he could still activate it instantly. The Minato we saw during Naruto birth had limited chakra as well, As he was maintaining kyuubi seals for hours and yet he was still able to pull off a Large Rift dimension to teleport biju dama away..

Also "Hebi Sasuke never fought Ay. That was FKS Sasuke, who was specifically stated to be stronger than Hebi Sasuke." That just show that "Ay" was still slower reaction than Minato and yet Sasuke still get outclassed in term of speed by "Ay". i dont know whos "Ay".

 

[MinatoSparkle]

First, That wasnt even Kisame, that was White Zetsu..We all know white zetsu speed isn't impressive. Even Fodder was matching those white zetsu.

So you show Sasuke with 3 Tomoe Sharingan Running with KCM Naruto? it means hes fast? Didnt Sakura also run with them at the same time ^_^. So Base Sakura speed match EMS Sasuke + KCM Naruto. Nice Logic Even 6th Gate Lee was faster than Jubidara attack

Sorry but EMS Sasuke still had limited with chakra. EMS Sasuke got destroyed by SM Kabuto speed. Even It was stated that Sage Mode Naruto isn't faster than KCM Naruto, but it give better reaction time. Minato reaction is faster than EMS Sasuke.

Even if Minato isn't good at handling Sage Mode, he could still activate it instantly. The Minato we saw during Naruto birth had limited chakra as well, As he was maintaining kyuubi seals for hours and yet he was still able to pull off a Large Rift dimension to teleport biju dama away..

Also "Hebi Sasuke never fought Ay. That was FKS Sasuke, who was specifically stated to be stronger than Hebi Sasuke." That just show that "Ay" was still slower reaction than Minato and yet Sasuke still get outclassed in term of speed by "Ay". i dont know whos "Ay".

That's not relevant. Ay and Bee still moved and attacked at the same speed.

Sakura is relative to MKCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke yes. There are a lot of panels and statement supporting this, and it's accepted by the wiki.

I don't see how Kabuto being stronger than Sasuke helps your case in the slightest. What are you even trying to prove?

Yeah Minato's reactions are faster because he could react to 8th Gate Guy, not whatever weird scaling you're talking about.

...And?

Ay is the Fourth Raikage. And I've proved why EMS Sasuke is faster than MS Sasuke already

 

[Nierre]

Sakura is relative to MKCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke yes. There are a lot of panels and statement supporting this,

If you have those panels, whenever you can- could you send them? I'd actually like to see them and save them for the future.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If you have those panels, whenever you can- could you send them? I'd actually like to see them and save them for the future.

There are ones on Sakura's VSBW page. If u want more I can send some.

 

[Crayons]

That's not relevant. Ay and Bee still moved and attacked at the same speed.

Sakura is relative to MKCM Naruto and EMS Sasuke yes. There are a lot of panels and statement supporting this, and it's accepted by the wiki.

I don't see how Kabuto being stronger than Sasuke helps your case in the slightest. What are you even trying to prove?

Yeah Minato's reactions are faster because he could react to 8th Gate Guy, not whatever weird scaling you're talking about.

...And?

Ay is the Fourth Raikage. And I've proved why EMS Sasuke is faster than MS Sasuke already

"Ay" was in Raiton Mode while Bee was in Base Mode. "Ay" would been able to blitz base bee..

Even Hebi Sasuke couldn't blitz Base Bee. He may have fire power with Amaterasu, but we saw that even with Amaterasu a chakra cloak can protect you from Amaterasu. We saw it on battle between Naruto vs Sasuke at the end.

Amaterasu was useless against Sage Mode at all. Go see Sasuke used Amaterasu on Blind Madara. He no longer had Rinnengan when he was Amaterasu by Sasuke. The only reason Sasuke can react so well against Madara because of his EMS, but that doesnt mean his body can move faster. Example our eyes reaction can see Lightning Strike and yet our body cant move that fast

Yea Show me EMS Sasuke can react to 8th Gate Gai? He would been demolished. Not even Jubidara was able to react against 8th Gate Gai speed and yet Minato could teleport in and out before Gai could collide on minato while Gai was moving at his fastest speed.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

"Ay" was in Raiton Mode while Bee was in Base Mode. "Ay" would been able to blitz base bee..

Even Hebi Sasuke couldn't blitz Base Bee. He may have fire power with Amaterasu, but we saw that even with Amaterasu a chakra cloak can protect you from Amaterasu. We saw it on battle between Naruto vs Sasuke at the end.

Amaterasu was useless against Sage Mode at all. Go see Sasuke used Amaterasu on Blind Madara. He no longer had Rinnengan when he was Amaterasu by Sasuke. The only reason Sasuke can react so well against Madara because of his EMS, but that doesnt mean his body can move faster. Example our eyes reaction can see Lightning Strike and yet our body cant move that fast

No, Bee had his version 1 cloak.

What are you talking about?

When did I ever mention Amaterasu? And no, we can't see lightning striking, we can only see the glow left by the lightning after it's struck.

 

[Crayons]

No, Bee had his version 1 cloak.

What are you talking about?

When did I ever mention Amaterasu? And no, we can't see lightning striking, we can only see the glow left by the lightning after it's struck.

He couldnt Blitz Base Bee.

You never travel outside maybe someday you can see Lightning Strike..We have few of them back in my country in Venezuela

 

[MinatoSparkle]

He couldnt Blitz Base Bee.

You never travel outside maybe someday you can see Lightning Strike..We have few of them back in my country in Venezuela

That literally proves Bee got faster. In the Five Kage Summit arc Version 1 cloak Bee was relative to Version 1 lightning armor Ay, while in the WA Base Bee was relative to (a somewhat holding back) version 2 lightning armor Ay.

Bruh, I've seen lightning. I know what you're talking about, but you have not seen lightning travel. You're telling me you've seen something like this?

No, I'm sure it was more like this
.

 

[Smashtwig]

Off topic but Ay is a stupid damn name, for two Raikages, straight.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Off topic but Ay is a stupid damn name, for two Raikages, straight.

Actually A is the name of all 4 original Raikage.

 

[Smashtwig]

The Cloud are stupid

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The Cloud are stupid

Lmao it's a title like B. The jinchuriki bodyguard of the Raikage before Killer B was actually Blue B. And you know about C and Darui. Not sure why Darui breaks the trend but whatever.

 

[Smashtwig]

wait it's actually C. Bruh I assumed it was like a word starting with S- it's ACTUALLY C WHAKN sdfnads fadk STUPID

 

[Crayons]

That literally proves Bee got faster. In the Five Kage Summit arc Version 1 cloak Bee was relative to Version 1 lightning armor Ay, while in the WA Base Bee was relative to (a somewhat holding back) version 2 lightning armor Ay.

Bruh, I've seen lightning. I know what you're talking about, but you have not seen lightning travel. You're telling me you've seen something like this?

No, I'm sure it was more like this
.

No im not saying that I can see Lightning Travel Path. Im saying I can see the Lightning the 2nd Pic is right. but then can our body move that fast? just cuz we can see that lightning.

ur thinking sasuke body can move that fast cuz his eyes can see better?. EMS Sasuke was trash to Rinnengan Madara and Jubidara was beyond Sasuke reaction speed.. He doesnt have that fast reaction movement like Minato that could easily evade his Amaterasu. Susanoo is useless as it take a huge chakra. Sasuke doesnt have large chakra pool, the only reason you see him on War Arc didnt get tired, was because Jugo was there to provide him with chakra during his fight.. but at the end when both Naruto and Sasuke lost their Six Path power, Even Sasuke required to absorb all other biju chakra to use Amaterasu.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

No im not saying that I can see Lightning Travel Path. Im saying I can see the Lightning the 2nd Pic is right. but then can our body move that fast? just cuz we can see that lightning.

ur thinking sasuke body can move that fast cuz his eyes can see better?. EMS Sasuke was trash to Rinnengan Madara and Jubidara was beyond Sasuke reaction speed.. He doesnt have that fast reaction movement like Minato that could easily evade his Amaterasu. Susanoo is useless as it take a huge chakra.

Seeing lightning isn't that impressive a feat. It's stationary after it's reached the ground. So yes we can move that fast.

? Idk when I said whatever you're implying, but his Susanoo at least can move that fast.

He could block Juubito's TSO and could protect Naruto with his Susanoo before a TSO exploded.

I agree Minato could avoid Amaterasu.

It doesn't take that much chakra for EMS Sasuke. He was able to maintain it for several minutes consecutively against Juubito.

 

[Crayons]

Seeing lightning isn't that impressive a feat. It's stationary after it's reached the ground. So yes we can move that fast.

? Idk when I said whatever you're implying, but his Susanoo at least can move that fast.

He could block Juubito's TSO and could protect Naruto with his Susanoo before a TSO exploded.

I agree Minato could avoid Amaterasu.

It doesn't take that much chakra for EMS Sasuke. He was able to maintain it for several minutes consecutively against Juubito.

First of All.
- He never manage to block Jubito TSO and Protect Naruto.

Gamakichi was Standing Next to Sasuke and Obito appear underneath Gamakichi and Naruto fell off from Gamakichi. Sasuke did not move or anything, he just activated his Susanoo when Obito half body appear infront of Naruto and Sasuke

Spoiler

Sasuke EMS isn't even fast

Spoiler

It was Naruto who save Sasuke by Grabbing Minato and Minato uses FTG.


Saying that Jubito TSO is impressive feat. I Say even Gamakichi sword was also impressive that it could block Jubito TSO from underneath.

Also we havnt seen Minato jutsu. He said this earlier "Its been a while he used this jutsu". But since He lost both hands, we didnt even see this kind of jutsu before.

That Amaterasu is useless against Minato. FTG Negate Amatersu. You see he Teleported and that amaterasu didnt teleport along with him.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

First of All.
- He never manage to block Jubito TSO and Protect Naruto.

Gamakichi was Standing Next to Sasuke and Obito appear underneath Gamakichi and Naruto fell off from Gamakichi. Sasuke did not move or anything, he just activated his Susanoo when Obito half body appear infront of Naruto and Sasuke

Spoiler

Sasuke EMS isn't even fast

Spoiler

It was Naruto who save Sasuke by Grabbing Minato and Minato uses FTG.


Saying that Jubito TSO is impressive feat. I Say even Gamakichi sword was also impressive that it could block Jubito TSO from underneath.

Also we havnt seen Minato jutsu. He said this earlier "Its been a while he used this jutsu".

Using his Susanoo to protect Naruto is indeed blocking a TSO. None of what you said disproves that.

So is KCM Naruto not fast because he also couldn't react to Juubito? Or is Hashirama not fast?

Obviously they are, getting blitzed by Juubito isn't much of an antifeat.

Naruto saved Sasuke because he had chakra arms, something Sasuke didn't have. And Sasuke outdid this feat by reacting before Naruto here.

Why are you mentioning this? I've gotten the feeling that this whole time you've been arguing to me about why Minato beats Sasuke, and I've made it clear many times that I also think that. I'm just arguing against your reasons for why.

 

[Smashtwig]

That Minato was in KCM tho

 

[Crayons]

Why are you mentioning this? I've gotten the feeling that this whole time you've been arguing to me about why Minato beats Sasuke, and I've made it clear many times that I also think that. I'm just arguing against your reasons for why.

1.) You have no timeline of when the TSB will explode.

• Tobirama appeared and Grab it.
• Tobirama disappear and it didnt explode.
• Tobirama appear behind Obito and TALK - it did not explode yet. Pretty sure Tobirama isn't a FASTEST RAPPER?
• Tobirama hit Jubito with TSB n explode along with him.

So yeah They have prolly 5-10 seconds..

Minato could probably do it too, grab the TSB as it did not even explode right away As Tobirama was sweet talking with Jubito back with it.

in vsbattle If manga does not provide TIME LINE. then u use anime. The only timeline I ever seen in Naruto manga, was their training and 5 seconds delay Shinra Tensei.

 

[Crayons]

That Minato was in KCM tho

That was Edo (50% Kyuubi) Minato.. we know that Edo have restricted fire power based on manga. So we never actually know what Alive Minato with full chakra capabilities..As the only fight we seen with Minato when he was alive was when he was low chakra due to maintaining the kyuubi seals when Naruto was being born. He couldn't even enter Sage Mode.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

That Minato was in KCM tho

I mean, I don't really see how that would change things. It still came into contact with him.

 

[Smashtwig]

I’m talking about his speed, I really don’t think anyone would think Alive Minato is faster than Edo KCM

 

[MinatoSparkle]

1.) You have no timeline of when the TSB will explode.

• Tobirama appeared and Grab it.
• Tobirama disappear and it didnt explode.
• Tobirama appear behind Obito and TALK - it did not explode yet. Pretty sure Tobirama isn't a FASTEST RAPPER?
• Tobirama hit Jubito with TSB n explode along with him.

So yeah They have prolly 5-10 seconds..

Minato could probably do it too, grab the TSB as it did not even explode right away As Tobirama was sweet talking with Jubito back with it.

in vsbattle If manga does not provide TIME LINE. then u use anime. The only timeline I ever seen in Naruto manga, was their training and 5 seconds delay Shinra Tensei.

It was exploding fast enough that Juubito didn't think they could react, and Naruto couldn't react, despite reacting to V2 Ay.

Tobirama is just a god when it comes to speed. And yes he can talk extremely fast, that's how anime logic works.

It was exploding in less than a split second, it just doesn't seem that fast because it's in relation to a bunch of incredibly fast characters. Also Minato in his dazed state could not do that.

Not how it works.

I’m talking about his speed, I really don’t think anyone would think Alive Minato is faster than Edo KCM

What speed feats were you talking about though? I don't recall Crayons mentioning KCM speed feats. Anyways, Alive Minato is faster than mentally nerfed KCM Minato, unnerfed is debatable but in SM probably.

 

[Smashtwig]

O I thought he was tryna say that Alive Minato was faster

guys just vote incon

 

[MinatoSparkle]

O I thought he was tryna say that Alive Minato was faster

guys just vote incon

nah just vote MinaGOAT

 

[Arkenis]

minato fra.

Minato blitzes him and surprises him with 24 kunais and one to the neck.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

minato fra.

Minato blitzes him and surprises him with 24 kunais and one to the neck.

First part is valid

Second is not as they're both sub rel.

 

[Arkenis]

First part is valid

Second is not as they're both sub rel.

sasuke struggles with too much movement like against Bee. I think Minatos spam of kunais should be enough in the case that Sasukes precog helps him here I think Minato outlasts him and ends up rasenganing him

 

[Smashtwig]

minato’s Raijin basically allows him to outpace anyone essentially

 

[MinatoSparkle]

sasuke struggles with too much movement like against Bee. I think Minatos spam of kunais should be enough in the case that Sasukes precog helps him here I think Minato outlasts him and ends up rasenganing him

True, although that was only 3T Sasuke.

Sure

minato’s Raijin basically allows him to outpace anyone essentially

Ya

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[Crayons]

I’m talking about his speed, I really don’t think anyone would think Alive Minato is faster than Edo KCM

Pretty sure he is.. If you look at Edo Madara and Alive Blind Madara.
Edo Rinnengan Madara vs 5 kage
Alive Rinnengan Madara vs Kage + Biju ^_^ was total blitz.

Considering he was still able to move fast to take BabyNaruto from Obito and take him out from his Exploding Diapers with limited chakra.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Pretty sure he is.. If you look at Edo Madara and Alive Blind Madara.
Edo Rinnengan Madara vs 5 kage
Alive Rinnengan Madara vs Kage + Biju ^_^ was total blitz.

Considering he was still able to move fast to take BabyNaruto from Obito and take him out from his Exploding Diapers with limited chakra.

To be fair, Madara had SM while he was blind.

No one's arguing Edos are superior to their alive counterpart, just that Edo Minato having KCM is a bigger buff than being Edo is a debuff. Which I think is debatable.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

bump

 

[Sero]

Minato Fra

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Damn the tallies are dead even across the board now.

 

[Arkenis]

If I have not been added, I am for Minato fra and I put an argument for Minato as well.

 

[Smashtwig]

Wait, what can Minato do against Susanoo again? Aside from “lol teleport away”