Ben 10 fights a stickman

[Spinoirr]

Speed is equal and both can use anything they have. Omniverse Ben is being used and he has Master control with all his Optional Equipment fighting cyborg Henry

Ben starts with Goop

Ben Tennyson:
Henry stickmin: 7
Icon:

 

[Psychomaster35]

Pretty sure this is a stomp in Henry’s favor thanks to his retries

Maybe this would be more fair if you include Alien X and Cybernetic Henry

 

[Spinoirr]

Maybe lol

 

[Spinoirr]

Pretty sure this is a stomp in Henry’s favor thanks to his retries

Maybe this would be more fair if you include Alien X and Cybernetic Henry

Alright now he can use all his aliens fighting cyborg Henry

 

[Spinoirr]

Bump

 

[Psychomaster35]

Im just waiting for arguments for Ben first before I debate

 

[CBslayeR]

So physically Ben is outclassed in most of his aliens physically besides the 5-As and Alien X, but the 5-A's can't really do anything about retries.

The biggest problem for Ben here is that he legitimately only has one win condition that Henry can't retry from, which is Alien X's EE. It's 2-B in range but it's kinda ooc. The good thing is that if he wins with Alien X or Clockwork he'll find out about retries (Sotobro effect from Ben 10 lets time manipulators know when time is being tampered with), which can make him realize he'll have to use Alien X law manip or EE

But that's probably not gonna happen because Henry greatly outhaxxes here, Reference is a straight up auto win if he punches Ben and swaps him with No Watch Ben. Plus Henry has a lot of chances to try out different haxxes with resets so its likely that he ends up using Reference pretty early due to it being Cyber Henry.

Tempted to vote Henry here but I wanna know what Henry can't retry from, will he be forced into a retry if he's put to sleep or mind haxxed?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Henry’s retries are passive, as he’s able to retry from being stunned, tranquilized, and even soul destruction, plus they can even activate the moment before he gets killed or incapacitated

 

[ZillertheBucko]

can't the downgrader turn the omnitrix into a dot?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Oh yeah, thats another way Henry can beat Ben, but at the cost of having Henry’s equipment get turned into powerless dots as well, though he’d still win in a physical fight against Ben anyways

 

[CBslayeR]

Henry’s retries are passive, as he’s able to retry from being stunned, tranquilized, and even soul destruction, plus they can even activate the moment before he gets killed or incapacitated

Hasn't Henry been incapped and killed in a few cutscenes? He couldn't reset for those so maybe there's other ways for Ben to win

 

[Psychomaster35]

Hasn't Henry been incapped and killed in a few cutscenes? He couldn't reset for those so maybe there's other ways for Ben to win

If you’re talking about how Henry dies at the end of the Betrayed and Revenged routes, Henry was still able to go to another route given how every ending was confirmed canon, especially accounting for the save states where the SAVE and LOAD options were in 2 completely different routes

 

[Spinoirr]

I assume base is the better option for Henry to give Ben a chance

 

[Psychomaster35]

I assume base is the better option for Henry to give Ben a chance

Actually, Ben would still have the same wincons anyways

 

[CBslayeR]

I assume base is the better option for Henry to give Ben a chance

If you do base Henry loses reference which seems to be his only effective win condition

 

[Spinoirr]

Hmmm alright I'll keep it as is

 

[ZillertheBucko]

well without using hammerspace or enhancements he still has supernatural luck, retries, afterimaging, reflecting attacks, convert, zero point, broadway force
and maybe he could try pickpocketing the omnitrix or something
I don't know much about ben 10 tho, but I have to say I don't really see how someone can make an argument in his favor really

 

[CBslayeR]

well without using hammerspace or enhancements he still has supernatural luck, retries, afterimaging, reflecting attacks, convert, zero point, broadway force
and maybe he could try pickpocketing the omnitrix or something
I don't know much about ben 10 tho, but I have to say I don't really see how someone can make an argument in his favor really

Omnitrix can't be removed like that, and Henry can't kill Ben due to it regenerating him when he dies. Ben also has 2-B EE he can use with a certain alien

 

[Spinoirr]

Also the fail safe

 

[ZillertheBucko]

profile says henry was able to reset from EE

 

[CBslayeR]

profile says henry was able to reset from EE

I don't think it was EE I think it was just the universe getting vaporized, plus it wouldn't be on a 2-B scale if it were either

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I don't think it was EE I think it was just the universe getting vaporized, plus it wouldn't be on a 2-B scale if it were either

I don't see how it being 2-B makes a difference, it's hax not AP

 

[Ayewale]

As far as I'm aware, from the discussion above, it seems like Ben gets out-haxed here rather badly, as Henry has a myriad of ways to get rid of Ben, whereas Ben's only true win condition is existence erasure via Alien X. However, even that comes with some caveats. I've watched Ben 10 Classic, AF, UA, OV and even some of the reboot, and Ben using Alien X to instantly erase people has never happened. Hell, Ben going instantly into Alien X is something that we've never actually seen apart from him versus the Rooters. And against the Rooters he simply wiped their minds instead of erasing them from existence. Henry should win here, methinks. It'd be super OOC for Ben to wipe someone from reality.

Edit: Forgot to mention but Henry could also potentially just come back from EE, as he was able to retry after having his universe 'erased'. The only reason Alien X even has existence erasure is because Servantis said that he could 'wipe everything from existence', which could just as easily be as much of an AP feat as Henry coming back from universe erasure, so I think it should count.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

As far as I'm aware, from the discussion above, it seems like Ben gets out-haxed here rather badly, as Henry has a myriad of ways to get rid of Ben, whereas Ben's only true win condition is existence erasure via Alien X. However, even that comes with some caveats. I've watched Ben 10 Classic, AF, UA, OV and even some of the reboot, and Ben using Alien X to instantly erase people has never happened. Hell, Ben going instantly into Alien X is something that we've never actually seen apart from him versus the Rooters. And against the Rooters he simply wiped their minds instead of erasing them from existence. Henry should win here, methinks. It'd be super OOC for Ben to wipe someone from reality.

Edit: Forgot to mention but Henry could also potentially just come back from EE, as he was able to retry after having his universe 'erased'. The only reason Alien X even has existence erasure is because Servantis said that he could 'wipe everything from existence', which could just as easily be as much of an AP feat as Henry coming back from universe erasure, so I think it should count.

(it's not an AP feat at all, EE is hax)

 

[CBslayeR]

(it's not an AP feat at all, EE is hax)

Henry surviving his universe getting destroyed isn't him surviving EE at all, its just flavor text on his profile, and EE has different potencies and ranges which Alien X's is on a 2-B scale which means Henry gets erased since it'd effect every single timeline he's in

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Henry surviving his universe getting destroyed isn't him surviving EE at all, its just flavor text on his profile, and EE has different potencies and ranges which Alien X's is on a 2-B scale which means Henry gets erased since it'd effect every single timeline he's in

do we actually know the range of henry's resets tho? All we know is that he has a multiversal range, and iirc this wiki has like a thousand different versions of multiversal

 

[Psychomaster35]

do we actually know the range of henry's resets tho? All we know is that he has a multiversal range, and iirc this wiki has like a thousand different versions of multiversal

Given how the Corruptick crashed the entirety of Completing the Mission, it had to have destroyed 180 timelines given its the number of fails (164) and endings (16) combined, probably even more (up to the entirety of the fails and endings) when you take into account the Multiverse Reset which builds up all the fails and endings achieved from the previous games.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Given how the Corruptick crashed the entirety of Completing the Mission, at most it had to have destroyed 180 timelines given its the number of fails (164) and endings (16) combined.

but we still know that there are more universes than the endings themselves, given that reference was able to go into a new timeline
also corruptick seems to be plot manipulation, so I can't say for sure if it's relevant here
then again maybe none of this is relevant, cause if it was then that'd mean I'd be trying to argue that alien X can lose to no equipment henry which.....I'm just not gonna die on this hill ok
anyways as long as alien X isn't activated henry takes the win really

 

[Psychomaster35]

Theoretically, though, even if Ben does manage to pull Alien X, Henry could potentially use the time machine to go back to an earlier point before Alien X was activated. Alien X may have the potential to erase Henry from all of his timelines, but since that isnt a first resort, its most likely leading to Henry going back to an earlier point and punching Ben to an alternate timeline where he never got the Omnitrix.

Voting Henry taking this more times than not.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

perhaps that's negated by acausality, but yeah I still think henry wins overall

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Theoretically, though, even if Ben does manage to pull Alien X, Henry could potentially use the time machine to go back to an earlier point before Alien X was activated. Alien X may have the potential to erase Henry from all of his timelines, but since that isnt a first resort, its most likely leading to Henry going back to an earlier point and punching Ben to an alternate timeline where he never got the Omnitrix.

Voting Henry taking this more times than not.

"Time huh? Thanks for the tip."

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Henry FRA

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Yeahhhhhh he wins but like
Acausality
So

 

[Spinoirr]

Also that affect that lets Ben know when someone went back in time and he has the time cycles

 

[CBslayeR]

Theoretically, though, even if Ben does manage to pull Alien X, Henry could potentially use the time machine to go back to an earlier point before Alien X was activated. Alien X may have the potential to erase Henry from all of his timelines, but since that isnt a first resort, its most likely leading to Henry going back to an earlier point and punching Ben to an alternate timeline where he never got the Omnitrix.

Voting Henry taking this more times than not.

Alien X will know if he time travels though, and be able to follow him which basically leads to Ben being forced to use law manip or EE which means Alien X = Win for Ben

Still, since its Cyber Henry its more likely he uses Reference here and swaps Ben for no watch Ben before failsafe gives him Alien X or he switches to it on his own. Voting Henry

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Alien X will know if he time travels though, and be able to follow him which basically leads to Ben being forced to use law manip or EE which means Alien X = Win for Ben

Still, since its Cyber Henry its more likely he uses Reference here and swaps Ben for no watch Ben before failsafe gives him Alien X or he switches to it on his own. Voting Henry

I thought this was base No equipment Henry
Whoops

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Anyways to clear some things up about reset
Since all fails and successes are canon, would that mean that instead of reversing time, he actually is just succeeding in a different timeline?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Anyways to clear some things up about reset
Since all fails and successes are canon, would that mean that instead of reversing time, he actually is just succeeding in a different timeline?

He still reverses time before he made that fail to do another option that would lead him to his successful ending. Every time he fails, it would make one timeline he didn't succeed in before doing another option that would be a fail or a success.

Anyways, we need 3 more votes.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

He still reverses time before he made that fail to do another option that would lead him to his successful ending. Every time he fails, it would make one timeline he didn't succeed in before doing another option that would be a fail or a success.

Anyways, we need 3 more votes.

time travel logic
amazing

 

[Psychomaster35]

Bump