5-C Juubito CRT

[M3X_2.0]

Let's see how long it takes for people to make something simple into a shitstorm. Anyway, in Shikamaru Hiden, Obito was stated to have a power that rivals Hagoromo's. It's basically the same thing as Juubi Jinchuuriki Hagoromo and Juubi Jinchuuriki Madara, it's basically the same power/transformation/state, and it's basically what SPSM Naruto got too.

It scales to Obito himself, Juubidara and 8th Gate Guy, those are not outliers, since Guy is basically a god tier alongside Juubidara. Controlled Juubito simply destroyed everyone there, so they don't scale.

Simple enough nothing is simple when is about Naruto

 

[Rocker1189]

Agreed. This should be an opportunity to give DMS Obito a key as well.

 

[M3X_2.0]

DMS?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

5-C Majestic Attire Susano'o Naruto and Sasuke when? I'm honestly surprised that Naruto and Sasuke don't have a Majestic Attire Key yet.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

DMS?

Dual Mangekyo Sharingan Obito.

 

[M3X_2.0]

It's already agreed that Naruto and Sasuke don't scale. You literally bumped that thread like, at least 5 times.

 

[LordTracer]

As long as we make it clear that Juubito is somewhat weaker than Hagoromo (since even Juubidara was stated to only be nearing his level), this is fine with me.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Better question is what level are we gonna put Post-Jūbito Obito at? He has weird feats after losing the Jūbi.

 

[KLOL506]

Maybe just 5-C without the +?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Maybe? Obito didn't have Kurama and Gyuki, while Hag had all of them.

 

[LordTracer]

Maybe just 5-C without the +?

That could work.

 

[M3X_2.0]

To get the + sign, you need 231.3 Exatons. Obito can be lower than that, maybe 230 or even 231.2, idk

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I agree with the OP. The Part 2 God tiers should all be relatively close in power, and this is even further substantiated by Madara also having been stated to approach Hagoromo's power. So they should all be in the same ballpark imo.

After the extraction, Obito also managed to keep up Madara with just a tiny portion of his Juubi chakra, so logically he'd be even stronger with the full Juubi inside him. His chakra also essentially made Kakashi a God tier singlehandedly.

Agreed. This should be an opportunity to give DMS Obito a key as well.

Absolutely.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I agree with the OP. The Part 2 God tiers should all be relatively close in power, and this is even further substantiated by Madara also having been stated to approach Hagoromo's power. So they should all be in the same ballpark imo.

After the extraction, Obito also managed to keep up Madara with just a tiny portion of his Juubi chakra, so logically he'd be even stronger with the full Juubi inside him. His chakra also essentially made Kakashi a God tier singlehandedly.


Absolutely.

Agreed.

 

[joshpiece]

Agree 100%

What would be the suggestion for DMS Obito?

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I agree, would this upgrade any others? (kakashi, might gai)

 

[LordTracer]

DMS Obito is featless apart from speed, y’all are thinking of Obito while connected to Black Zetsu and with a Rinnegan

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Black Zetsu didn't do anything but Hinder Obito. That was the whole point of him latching on to him.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

DMS Obito is featless apart from speed, y’all are thinking of Obito while connected to Black Zetsu and with a Rinnegan

TBF, Zetsu was actively trying to hold him back, and he only got to that level after absorbing chakra from Madara, so I don't think there would be that much of a difference.

DMS Obito would still have access to the chakra he stole, so he should be like "Likely 5-C" or something.

 

[Zencha9]

Pretty straight forward i agree

 

[Cyberblader90]

would Obito being comparable to Hagoromo really makes sense at all

Considering Naruto and Sasuke each only got half of Hagoromo's chakra, and at that point were capable of bodying a version of Madara stronger than Juubito

I would probably interpret it to just be saying that Obito received similar abilities to the Sage of Six Paths.

 

[M3X_2.0]

He is not really comparable, he doesn't have Kurama and Gyuki, while Hagoromo had everything. He is just powerful enough to be mentioned like, after gaining a power equal to Madara and Naruto

 

[USklaverei]

I agree

 

[Galvino]

Obito lacked the sage power that Madara and Naruto had I believe. Isn't not having sage power a big deal? I just doubt Juubito was equal to Madara or Naruto.

 

[M3X_2.0]

That's the point, he is not. While they scale to 5-C+, Obito will downscale to 5-C, without the "+"

 

[Galvino]

Oh okay, yeah that makes more sense than the current rating.

 

[Purgy]

Not sure how valid this is, to rival something is to be comparable.

Madara was stated to be getting close to Hagoromo, yet he was far, far stronger than Juubito.

• Madara prior to becoming the Ten Tails Jin was massively stronger than Obito prior to becoming the Ten Tails Jin
• Madara had the power of half of 9 Tails and the entire 8 Tails, Obito only had a tiny portion of both

Really, Obito isn't comparable to Hagoromo or Madara at all via what we're shown.

If someone with 50% of Hagoromo's power is capable of kinda stomping someone stronger than Obito, then Obito can't really be called a rival at all.

 

[joshpiece]

Is it a fact that ghost Hagoromo = alive Hagoromo.

 

[M3X_2.0]

And comparable doesn't mean they are literally equal, comparable means they are at the same ballpark.

Madara was stated to be getting close to Hagoromo, yet he was far, far stronger than Juubito.

Stop making Madara far above Obito, he only had more Sage Chakra according to Minato, and that is true, he had the additions of Kurama and Gyuki. They are somewhat comparable as well, that's why both of them havethe same Tier.

Madara prior to becoming the Ten Tails Jin was massively stronger than Obito prior to becoming the Ten Tails Jin

I know, it means nothing. Madara is just stronger, it's stated in the manga.

Madara had the power of half of 9 Tails and the entire 8 Tails, Obito only had a tiny portion of both

Exactly what I said previously, Minato confirms that.

Really, Obito isn't comparable to Hagoromo or Madara at all via what we're shown.

He is comparable to them, you liking it or not. Even in the manga there are statements about that. To quote the databook:

Obtaining the power of the ten bodies of the tailed beasts is the same as owning the power of the Sage of Six Paths.

Well, basically, Obito just doesn't have Kurama and Gyuki, unless if you think that Kurama and Gyuki adds 200+ Exatons for the user, wich I think it's wrong. Only in your head Naruto is capable of stomping Madara.

 

[Purgy]

And comparable doesn't mean they are literally equal, comparable means they are at the same ballpark.

The statement you posted says he has power rivaling Hagoromo, to rival something is to be comparable or equal, Obito is neither based on what we see in the manga, in fact, Hagoromo would likely one shot Obito given how 50% of his power performed against Pre-God Tree Madara.

Stop making Madara far above Obito, he only had more Sage Chakra according to Minato, and that is true, he had the additions of Kurama and Gyuki. They are somewhat comparable as well, that's why both of them havethe same Tier.

All this part of your post does is reinforce the fact that Madara is quite a bit above Juubito.

• He had more Sage Chakra
• He had 50% of Kurama and 100% of Gyuki, who are clearly shown to be the strongest Biju by quite a large margin.
• He had a stronger base prior to becoming the Jin

And his profile notes he's far above Controlled Juubito

I know, it means nothing. Madara is just stronger, it's stated in the manga.

Madara is quite a bit stronger and yet he's stated to be getting close to Hagoromo, clearly Juubito isn't rivaling Hagoromo then.

Exactly what I said previously, Minato confirms that.

The thing is that, the statement and what you're arguing aren't the same, so why are you using it as evidence? For Obito to rival Hagoromo he would need to be somewhat comparable, yet you can easily argue he's far below even 50% of Hagoromo.

He is comparable to them, you liking it or not. Even in the manga there are statements about that. To quote the databook:

It's not a matter of me "liking it or not", I don't really care either way, but to say Obito rivals Hagoromo is factually wrong and heavily contradicts the manga.

Well, basically, Obito just doesn't have Kurama and Gyuki, unless if you think that Kurama and Gyuki adds 200+ Exatons for the user, wich I think it's wrong. Only in your head Naruto is capable of stomping Madara.

I don't think it's as linear as you seem to think it is, otherwise if we added all the Biju's power together they wouldn't even come close to Uncontrolled Juubito.

In the short scuffle Base SPSM Naruto and Pre-God Tree Madara had, Madara was helpless and getting bodied.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

If someone with 50% of Hagoromo's power is capable of kinda stomping someone stronger than Obito, then Obito can't really be called a rival at all.

I think Naruto's performance against Madara is being a bit exaggerated here. Madara was visibly exhausted after suffering a life-threatening injury against Guy. He was still healing as well, yet he managed to block an attack from Naruto all the same. He also withstood the Lava Rasenshuriken at point blank range with minimal injuries. Again this is a very exhausted Madara, so I don't believe the idea that Naruto was >>>>>>>>>>>> Madara to be very accurate.

And as I said earlier, after he stole some of Madara's Juubi chakra, Obito managed to keep up with Madara and even blocked his TSB. I think it stands to reason that with the Juubi inside him he would be far stronger than he was post-extraction. His chakra also allowed Kakashi to somewhat keep pace with Kaguya.

That is to say, while there is clearly an established hierarchy between the God tiers, I do not believe the differences in power are that dramatic. I think they're all in the same ballpark, and for that reason I think Juubito should downscale to 5-C, or at least get an "At least 6-A+, likely 5-C".

 

[Purgy]

I think Naruto's performance against Madara is being a bit exaggerated here. Madara was visibly exhausted after suffering a life-threatening injury against Guy. He was still healing as well, yet he managed to block an attack from Naruto all the same. He also withstood the Lava Rasenshuriken at point blank range with minimal injuries. Again this is a very exhausted Madara, so I don't believe the idea that Naruto was >>>>>>>>>>>> Madara to be very accurate.

Madara himself said it wasn't his injuries for the reason he was getting destroyed

And I never said Base SPSM Naruto >>>>>>>>>>>> Madara, I just said that Pre-God Tree Madara was getting bodied in that short scuffle, which he was.

And as I said earlier, after he stole some of Madara's Juubi chakra, Obito managed to keep up with Madara and even blocked his TSB. I think it stands to reason that with the Juubi inside him he would be far stronger than he was post-extraction. His chakra also allowed Kakashi to somewhat keep pace with Kaguya.

We don't know how much of Madara's Sage Chakra Obito stole, so I don't think this really matters overall.

That is to say, while there is clearly an established hierarchy between the God tiers, I do not believe the differences in power are that dramatic. I think they're all in the same ballpark, and for that reason I think Juubito should downscale to 5-C, or at least get an "At least 6-A+, likely 5-C".

Personally I don't mind downscaling, my issue was just with saying Juubito rivals Hagoromo and trying to use that statement as evidence.

Juubito clearly does not rival Hagoromo, but neither do I think he's thousands of times weaker, so downscaling could work.

 

[The_Alxhemist]

Madara was stated to be getting close to Hagoromo, yet he was far, far stronger than Juubito.

You've basically covered everything I found wrong here. But this...i thought Madara was stated to be near Kaguya's level not Hagoromo's

 

[Purgy]

You've basically covered everything I found wrong here. But this...i thought Madara was stated to be near Kaguya's level not Hagoromo's

Here

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Madara himself said it wasn't his injuries for the reason he was getting destroyed

And I never said Base SPSM Naruto >>>>>>>>>>>> Madara, I just said that Pre-God Tree Madara was getting bodied in that short scuffle, which he was.

I know that you never said that verbatim, but I am arguing that there's some extra context here. Madara was not at his best, was not expecting Naruto to be this strong, and was still healing. The fact that he even brought up the healing thing in the first place means that it is a factor, at least to some extent, he just realized that it wasn't the only factor given Naruto's power jump. With all that in mind, he still blocked and survived two of Naruto's attacks, so Naruto being far above him is just not something I agree with.

We don't know how much of Madara's Sage Chakra Obito stole, so I don't think this really matters overall.

We actually do.

Personally I don't mind downscaling, my issue was just with saying Juubito rivals Hagoromo and trying to use that statement as evidence.

Juubito clearly does not rival Hagoromo, but neither do I think he's thousands of times weaker, so downscaling could work.

That's fair, but I would like to mention that rivals doesn't exclusively mean that he's equal.
the word actually has quite a few synonyms such as:

compete with, vie with, match, be a match for, equal, emulate, measure up to, come up to, compare with, bear comparison with, be comparable to/with, parallel, be in the same league as, be in the same category as, be on a par with, be on a level with, touch, keep pace with, keep up with, challenge, and hold a candle to.

Many of these synonyms fit our interpretation quite nicely.

 

[Shadyboi0]

Agree

 

[LordTracer]

I just said that Pre-God Tree Madara was getting bodied in that short scuffle, which he was.

Low-key... Post-Shinju Madara wasn’t doing so well either, his Limbo clone got bruised just by blocking Naruto’s attack and Sasuke pretty casually chopped him in half.

 

[Purgy]

I've said what I wanted to say and don't mind downscaling Juubito, but I do want to refute this;

We actually do.

I don't think this is the Sage Chakra he took

1. He created the TSB staff before taking the piece of 1 and 8 Tails
2. He would have lost it when he gave Naruto those two pieces of 8 and 1 Tails, but he still had Sage Chakra even up to his death and gave it to Kakashi.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I don't think this is the Sage Chakra he took

1. He created the TSB staff before taking the piece of 1 and 8 Tails
2. He would have lost it when he gave Naruto those two pieces of 8 and 1 Tails, but he still had Sage Chakra even up to his death and gave it to Kakashi.

I mean, sure, that's fair, but I don't think it would change much because no matter how much he absorbed it wouldn't come close to equaling the amount he had as the full on Juubi Jinchūriki. If he'd absorbed a large amount I'm sure Madara would've made note of it, like he did when Obito absorbed the small fragments of 1 and 8 Tails.

In any case, this is minor anyway and doesn't affect the downscaling much, so I guess we should stop arguing semantics lol.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Disagree.

the context for that phrase is literally the same that is used in the manga, it just means he has gained the same toolset that Hagoromo had.
It also makes no sense that Juubito would be Equal to hagoromo considering the fact that half of his chakra inside of Naruto who wasn't even using his chakra cloak one-shotted Juubidara who was more powerful than Juubito.