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Bowser vs Sonic Part 2
- Thread starter sanicspood
- Start date
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Sonic has universal range with Chaos Control scaling to Shadow in Rivals 2 teleporting out of a closed off dimension, teleporting out of a wall out be easy, and literally nobody said anything about special stages
Gilad_Hyperstar
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Chaos Control doesn't come from the special zone
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i know, i was just saying that chaos control should not help him get out of sealing cause from what i remembered the special stages were the closest feat i can remember that would be counted as sealing
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In Luigi's Mansion Mario could still move even while being sealed in a painting, unless power star sealing is completely different I don' see why Sonic can't teleport out
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In Rivals 2 Shadow could teleport out of a closed dimension, teleporting out of a painting should be easy then, there's different types of sealing, but in this case since it doesn't null them he should be fine
How so? Does Bowser's null it? You aren't providing evidence to your claims, unlike us
Gilad_Hyperstar
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You're confusing two completely different instances. Sonic going out of special stages isn't sealing, but rather just pesudo resistance to BFR, as the special stages are seperate universes. And two, the emeralds are what got Sonic out of the special stages, so Super Sonic, who is powered by all seven of them, should be just as capable of replicating said feats.
Sonic was able to escape from being trapped in a container in Sonic Adventure 2, and managed to teleport out using Chaos Control
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because in mario the toads that have power stars and know how to use them, the same power stars that can break seals he placed on doors and should be able to break the ones they have, they cant they just straight up cannot
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,188
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If you suggest that Sonic escapes BFR by breaking the thing sealing him then you're sadly mistaken.
Sonic isn't breaking anything. He's teleporting out of the thing sealing him
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Please show scans, show evidence that these Toads that have stars were sealed and couldn't use their power stars, because the evidence I posted shows otherwise
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Looking at Bowser's page the Toads that got sealed can still move and talk with Mario, I would assume the Toads with stars simply can't use them because Bowser has most of them, but I could be wrong which is why I ask for evidence
I don't see how Sonic can't just use Chaos Control, especially in his super form
The other type of sealing is just on doors so that they can't open, something teleportation would already bypass
I don't see how Sonic can't just use Chaos Control, especially in his super form
The other type of sealing is just on doors so that they can't open, something teleportation would already bypass
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Power stars can break seals, this is also stated by a toad, a toad as we can see has a power star on him and should be able to break the seal on him as mario can do with his own power stars but he does not and is still trapped there and another toad with a star who should be able to once again unseal himself and others, but they cant even though they should be able to, and this is not the only media where we see toads are able to use power stars
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This is just points I talked about in my last post, nothing on what you posted would even imply they are nulled when:
1: The stars they give are perfectly fine and not nulled
2: They can move and talk
From what you showed me in order to break the seal Mario has to use the stars on the door, which the Toads can't, meanwhile Sonic can use chaos control without moving
Also what Gilad said earlier
Arguing that Toads can't break their seals with stars is somewhat irrelavant since the seal didn't null them, so it won't null the emeralds inside Sonic, and he isn't breaking the seal
1: The stars they give are perfectly fine and not nulled
2: They can move and talk
From what you showed me in order to break the seal Mario has to use the stars on the door, which the Toads can't, meanwhile Sonic can use chaos control without moving
This point doesn't work because Mario himself doesn't free them after getting their stars, but only after beating Bowser, even though he can break the other seals, it seems more like PIS then.
Also what Gilad said earlier
Arguing that Toads can't break their seals with stars is somewhat irrelavant since the seal didn't null them, so it won't null the emeralds inside Sonic, and he isn't breaking the seal
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OP, I feel like you should remove the FRA unless more reasoning comes, since they were based on "seal" gg even though that is being proved to not work by itself, it seems like insuficient reasoning
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- Thread starter
- #56
i will once the guy concedes
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1.Yeah the stars arent nulled because they were given to mario, because the toads themselves could not use them due to the sealing
2. that means nothing
Yes, they cant cause they cant use the power stars to break out of their own seal, then they could go and do that, that doesnt mean anything in this case sonic just up and cant use his powers
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Except there is no proof that the star gained it's power back after being given to Mario, it's far more likely it didn't lose it's power ever, since your only proof is "they didn't use them" even though Mario didn't free them either, or they didn't use them because they couldn't move to the doors, your argument relies on "what if" without evidence, like, I could just say the Toads simply don't know how to use the stars, which is why they would wait for Mario, afterall there are plenty of fodder Toads
Yes it does, people who are nulled usually can't move or act, and especially not give items to others
You didn't read half of my post, Mario didn't even break their seals, someone who could actually do it, this isn't a point, just a oversight
Plus you STILL didn't explain how this Sonic would even get sealed in the first place, is it an attack, AoE, magic spell, thought based, etc. It's just "seal gg lol"
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Ugh, you aren't pulling a fast one, User.
First I would like to bring up ap. Bowser at the very least has his Jumbo Star, meaning that starry sky ap is one-shot level, as he's 80x above starry sky level. Bowser flicks Sonic and it's over.
Second, sealing. While Sonic has dimensional travel, Bowser bypasses this. Power Stars have this same ability (displayed anytime you exit a level, as there's no portal to leave). In order to bypass said sealing, you'd need much much better resistance negation. This is displayed anytime Mario is forced to gain more Power Stars for more stages. Otherwise he laughs at you for having a lack of Power Stars. Sonic cannot bypass this. While the sealing itself is off-screen, Bowser has easy methods to bring this up-close, due to items in MP.
Sonic's bigger abilities such as time stop are nulled here due to his resistance via the Star Rod, his "resistance negation" won't due much since Mario's Stop Watch bypasses his own resistance to it via Superguard. He's resisting Ring Time. He's resisting Void Manipulation.
Bowser can also steal items forcefully, from yet again MP. In-fact, his wish granting is done thought based, so he can wish stuff like making Sonic go away, seal him again. Perception manipulation slows down Sonic a lot, allowing Bowser to just dig in and easily hit Sonic. Doesn't help that Bowser can also duplicate himself, and they won't be going away due to the invulnerability.
There's also his transmutation which is done with "a blink of an eye", sealing Sonic's soul via a Catch Card, Sleep Manipulation, and others.
Bowser FRA.
First I would like to bring up ap. Bowser at the very least has his Jumbo Star, meaning that starry sky ap is one-shot level, as he's 80x above starry sky level. Bowser flicks Sonic and it's over.
Second, sealing. While Sonic has dimensional travel, Bowser bypasses this. Power Stars have this same ability (displayed anytime you exit a level, as there's no portal to leave). In order to bypass said sealing, you'd need much much better resistance negation. This is displayed anytime Mario is forced to gain more Power Stars for more stages. Otherwise he laughs at you for having a lack of Power Stars. Sonic cannot bypass this. While the sealing itself is off-screen, Bowser has easy methods to bring this up-close, due to items in MP.
Sonic's bigger abilities such as time stop are nulled here due to his resistance via the Star Rod, his "resistance negation" won't due much since Mario's Stop Watch bypasses his own resistance to it via Superguard. He's resisting Ring Time. He's resisting Void Manipulation.
Bowser can also steal items forcefully, from yet again MP. In-fact, his wish granting is done thought based, so he can wish stuff like making Sonic go away, seal him again. Perception manipulation slows down Sonic a lot, allowing Bowser to just dig in and easily hit Sonic. Doesn't help that Bowser can also duplicate himself, and they won't be going away due to the invulnerability.
There's also his transmutation which is done with "a blink of an eye", sealing Sonic's soul via a Catch Card, Sleep Manipulation, and others.
Bowser FRA.
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Just going to say something, if Bowser was 80 starry skies, he would be a solid 3-C.
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- Thread starter
- #61
counted, been waiting for ur response.
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Don't expect me to respond often, I dislike this wiki as is, I'll made few exceptions at best.
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- #63
i can understand that tbh.
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- #64
also i still dont think this is a stomp cuz bowser doesn't seem to resist bfr which sonic has, sonic also has probability manip which bowser doesn't resist as well
sonic also has life force absorption so that's a wincon aswell since bowser doesn't resist
sonic also has life force absorption so that's a wincon aswell since bowser doesn't resist
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I am just going to reply tommorow, except for one question, is this on his page? Because as Ned said 80x starry skies is 3-C.
ShakeResounding
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If that's the case then this match-up shouldn't even be happening. Especially considering this is in-character.
Anybody else here consistently hate Spood's matches?
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According to Blaze in the post above Bowser has dimensional travel, so that isn't a wincon if he is right, probability manip only makes his attacks more likely to hit their enemy, which wouldn't help if he has no wincons, only life force is a wincon there, that is if what he argued is on the page
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The 80x amp is legit (I don't think anyone realized this prior), although iirc, didn't someone say it actually takes 300+ times above starry sky to even be 4-A+ in the blog itself?
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life force absorption is on sonics page
ShakeResounding
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Nope, had no idea about an 80x amp. Might wanna check if this actually makes Bowser 3-C or not.
If Sonic's only wincon is life-force absorption then this match-up is actually a stomp. It's from a weapon Sonic won't ever consider using as Super Sonic. Weaponry is more of Base Sonic's thing.
If Sonic's only wincon is life-force absorption then this match-up is actually a stomp. It's from a weapon Sonic won't ever consider using as Super Sonic. Weaponry is more of Base Sonic's thing.
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i mean its still a wincon
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I'd argue this is a massive stomp in Bowser's favor. 3-C or not, he's in one-shot range.
ShakeResounding
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Faultiest logic I've ever read and doesn't change that this is a stomp.
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yea i realized that after what datweeb said
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Yeah, have to agree with Weeb here, Sonic is only 5.7 exafoes, a leap from where he was last time, but not enough to touch anything in Mario.
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If it's a wincon that people say is not in character for Sonic then does that really matter?
Also I think I will vote for Bowser but IDK much about both characters so I'll wait for more arguments if it isn't just a stomp to be had
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If a character won't use a wincon it's still a stomp, a matchup where they have a chance to actualy win it's when it's not
Gilad_Hyperstar
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If Bowser is really that high above Starry Sky level, then yeah, this is a stomp in Bowser's favor
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