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DBZ Speed CRT

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2x still seems way too low. We're also either going to get Solar System level FSS Super Saiyans or Large Star level SS2 if we go down that route.
 
ByAsura said:
2x still seems way too low. We're also either going to get Solar System level FSS Super Saiyans or Large Star level SS2 if we go down that route.
Click to expand...
Gohan likely had a pretty massive rage boost when fighting Cell, so this might explain how Gohan got so much stronger against Cell with his increase from SSJ to SSJ2
 
And yes Null, he was angry. Everytime in the anime SSJ is achieved in U7 it is anger. SSJ2 is like Grade 5 but different. He screams in anger and all.
 
Null makes sense, due to gohan hates towards fighting, his shyness too could play a factor. He could be very close or maybe stronger than cell whilst he is in his super saiyan, he didn't show because of his self doubt, kinda like how he was beam clashing with cell
 
If I recall correctly, Gohan's transformation was off-screen in the manga, with the anime portraying him as transforming off the "need not want" principle and a feeling of worthlessness in the face of Goku's attack. Future Trunks transformed out of guilt and grief. Goten and Trunks could transform willingly in their first appearances, and the anime portrays Goten as perfectly calm when he transforms.

Also, by that logic, every Super Saiyan experiences a rage boost, even after their initial transformation, and even then, they aren't really experiencing a rage boost, anger is just the catalyst for the transformation.
 
DivineAura44 said:
I meant confirmed first time, we don't even know if that first time for Goten and the way Trunks said it, sounds even more convincing that it wasn't his first time.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure Goten’s first time was during training with Chi-Chi, and he wasn’t angry there either so 🦍

And Trunks still wasn’t angry when he did it the first time
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Gohan likely had a pretty massive rage boost when fighting Cell, so this might explain how Gohan got so much stronger against Cell with his increase from SSJ to SSJ2
Click to expand...
Not at first. He was holding back massively. The anger caused him to become SS2, just like Goku with SS1.

Also, I think there’s a statement that SS2 was the strongest Saiyan form. If that’s true, then it’s above Grade 3, which is gigantically above Grade 2, let alone Super Saiyan.

Edit: It's SS3.
 
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OK, so based on feedback it seems like most of the people who have been commenting feel this is a reasonable addition to the scaling, and I have been asked to include it in the blog I made. Of course I would include the discussed reasoning in the notes section. I would like to ask that everybody who supports it, or not, please comment saying as much, so I know exactly how much support it has and who has actually reviewed it before going forward with implementing it.

Thanks

100% Frieza =At least 1,192c
SSJ Goku =At least 1,490c
SS1 Grade 2 Vegeta = At least 1,490c
FPSS1 Goku = At least 2,980c
Perfect Cell/Dabura = At least 2,980c
SS2 Teen Gohan = At least 5,960c
Fat Buu = At least 11,920c
SS1 Gotenks/SS3 Goku = At least 11,920c
Vegetto = At least 11,920c
SS1 Vegetto = At least 596,000c
 
ByAsura said:
Not at first. He was holding back massively. The anger caused him to become SS2, just like Goku with SS1.

Also, I think there’s a statement that SS2 was the strongest Saiyan form. If that’s true, then it’s above Grade 3, which is gigantically above Grade 2, let alone Super Saiyan.

Edit: It's SS3.
Click to expand...
Thinking about it, is FPSSJ Goku stronger than SSJ Grade 3 Trunks? Vegeta was shocked at half of Goku's power, but not so when Trunks powered up to Grade 3

Also Trunks only surpassed suppressed Perfect Cell (he was holding back the entire time and the only time he went full power was against Gohan in the Cell Games)
 
Vegeta woke up afterwards.

Anyway, yes, FPSS Goku still 100% surpasses Grade 3 Trunks. Half his power shocked everyone, including Trunks, and Krillin (he felt Grade 3 Trunks' Ki) said that Goku was beyond everyone of the Z-Fighters while facing off against Cell. Also, it's strongly implied that Vegeta did gain Grade 3 in the HTC, but never used it because he knew the deficiencies (this is supported by Goku also knowing them, despite seemingly not having used it previously, and Vegeta breaking the SS barrier in the first two months).

To go even further, Trunks says his full power is unbelievable after training for a second time in the HTC. So he could surpass 2nd HTC Grade 3 Trunks.
 
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It's apparently 10x SS1, but I don't see where they got that number from. It always seemed made up and a tad illogical to me.

Seems good.
 
ByAsura said:
It's apparently 10x SS1, but I don't see where they got that number from. It always seemed made up and a tad illogical to me.

Seems good.
Click to expand...
Yeah I don't believe it's ten times either. Do we got any canonical statements about how much Trunks increased his strength with Grade 3?

Anyway the scaling would look like:

Grade 3 SSJ Trunks = 1,490 c
50% FPSSJ Goku = 2,980c
100% FPSSJ Goku = 5,960c
50% SSJ2 Gohan = 11,920c
100% SSJ2 Gohan = 22,840 c
Fat Buu = 44,680 c
SSJ Vegito = 2,284,000 c
 
ByAsura said:
2x still seems way too low. We're also either going to get Solar System level FSS Super Saiyans or Large Star level SS2 if we go down that route.
Click to expand...
Large star level SS2 would be nonsense since Cell was sie confirmed Solar System Buster
Either we accept 2x then we have to give FPSSJ 4-B Rating otherwise reject the 2x multipliers since it Seele way higher
Though the solution is accepting 2x since gohan got a rage boost but buu Saga FPSSJ should be 4-B eben if we say the rage boost
 
LightReinh12345 said:
Large star level SS2 would be nonsense since Cell was sie confirmed Solar System Buster
Either we accept 2x then we have to give FPSSJ 4-B Rating otherwise reject the 2x multipliers since it Seele way higher
Though the solution is accepting 2x since gohan got a rage boost but buu Saga FPSSJ should be 4-B eben if we say the rage boost
Click to expand...
The rage boost is only referenced as the catalyst for the SS2 form, so I advocate for just saying it's not 2x. It comes from one guide and has no manga support, unlike SS1.
Stefano4444 said:
It come from this.
Click to expand...
I know where it's from, I'm just saying I disagree with the number.
LightReinh12345 said:
Btw In the official Spanish guide wasn't it stated Grade 3 trunks is 10 times stronger than Grade 2 Vegeta or something?!?!?
Click to expand...
Apparently the translation is "Trunks acquires a force 10 times greater, but his movement skills are more limited." It could be Grade 1 or 2.

Also, this was the guide that called SS2 the strongest form.
  • Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form)
    An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!
  • Son Gohan Gohan's true power that had lain dormant finally awakens! He transforms through his extreme rage towards Cell, who tormented Goku and the others with his Cell Juniors, and even destroyed No.16! His personality does an about-face; the strongest Super Saiyan, he easily battles Cell!
 
ByAsura said:
The rage boost is only referenced as the catalyst for the SS2 form, so I advocate for just saying it's not 2x. It comes from one guide and has no manga support, unlike SS1.
Click to expand...
Gohan in particular gets massively stronger when he's enraged, such as against Nappa, and later against Frieza too.

Him being a Super Saiyan doesn't change that his power grow by a very significant amount when he's enraged
 
Everything suggests that SS2 was the boost, though, especially Goku revealing that he already transformed in the HTC. Even the source I posted above indicates this.
  • Son Gohan Gohan's true power that had lain dormant finally awakens! He transforms through his extreme rage towards Cell, who tormented Goku and the others with his Cell Juniors, and even destroyed No.16! His personality does an about-face; the strongest Super Saiyan, he easily battles Cell!
Gohan just gets angry and transforms. He even has to rely on rage boosts later to beat Cell.
 
ByAsura said:
The rage boost is only referenced as the catalyst for the SS2 form, so I advocate for just saying it's not 2x. It comes from one guide and has no manga support, unlike SS1.

I know where it's from, I'm just saying I disagree with the number.

Apparently the translation is "Trunks acquires a force 10 times greater, but his movement skills are more limited." It could be Grade 1 or 2.

Also, this was the guide that called SS2 the strongest form.
  • Super Saiyan Grade Five (Strongest Form)
    An aura with sparks like flashes of lightning and an upright, combative hairstyle are the distinguishing features of this, the strongest Saiyan warrior! One's personality also becomes aggressive; even the ordinarily gentle Gohan started to enjoy battle! Its power is enough to push back even Cell's energy bullet, which had enough force to blow away the Solar System!
  • Son Gohan Gohan's true power that had lain dormant finally awakens! He transforms through his extreme rage towards Cell, who tormented Goku and the others with his Cell Juniors, and even destroyed No.16! His personality does an about-face; the strongest Super Saiyan, he easily battles Cell!
Click to expand...
Trunks was still 10x stronger than grade 1 or 2 if its true
 
ByAsura said:
Everything suggests that SS2 was the boost, though, especially Goku revealing that he already transformed in the HTC. Even the source I posted above indicates this.
  • Son Gohan Gohan's true power that had lain dormant finally awakens! He transforms through his extreme rage towards Cell, who tormented Goku and the others with his Cell Juniors, and even destroyed No.16! His personality does an about-face; the strongest Super Saiyan, he easily battles Cell!
Gohan just gets angry and transforms.
Click to expand...
Then if so then 4-B FPSSJ Goku and Gohan is legit. Goku and Gohan scaling to Shin makes no sense since nothing suggest Shin is equal to FPSSJ Goku, and his only statement regarding his strength is that he can one shot Frieza with a finger (which doesn't say much to beings that are on the league of Perfect Cell)
 
Shin is actually scaled to making stars (this is stated in Super) and scaling far above Piccolo, which is true.

Still completely disagree with 2x.
 
ByAsura said:
Shin is actually scaled to making stars (this is stated in Super) and scaling far above Piccolo, which is true.

Still completely disagree with 2x.
Click to expand...
Piccolo isn't compatarable to FPSSJ Goku at all. So scaling far above Piccolo doesn't mean much. Especially since Grade 2 SSJ Vegeta is still stronger than Cell Saga Piccolo
 
Piccolo scales to the Cell Jrs after he became much, much stronger by training in the HTC. Shin doesn't scale to Goku, he's just Large Star level because Piccolo is, and he can make stars.
 
ByAsura said:
Piccolo scales to the Cell Jrs after he became much, much stronger by training in the HTC. Shin doesn't scale to Goku, he's just Large Star level because Piccolo is, and he can make stars.
Click to expand...
Didn't the Cell Jr. beared Piccolo down? He only barely held his own against one of them

And if Shin don't scale to Goku, then there's no reason why Goku shouldn't downscale from Super Perfect Cell's 4-B feat (as in FPSSJ Goku < FPSSJ Gohan << Perfect Cell << Super Perfect Cell = 4-B), as Goku has his own scalings conpletely unrelated to Shin
 
Lord Tracer is right, so this is my last reply.

Piccolo was still standing by the end, and somewhat fought on par with them (even in the scan where Cell says only SS Vegeta/Trunks were holding their own). I'd say he was outmatched, but he's definitely somewhat comparable.

I brought up some of this logic in a previous thread. It was countered when someone claimed that destroying the Solar System is a very specific thing that Cell brought up after his massive amp.
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Yeah I don't believe it's ten times either. Do we got any canonical statements about how much Trunks increased his strength with Grade 3?

Anyway the scaling would look like:

Grade 3 SSJ Trunks = 1,490 c
50% FPSSJ Goku = 2,980c
100% FPSSJ Goku = 5,960c
50% SSJ2 Gohan = 11,920c
100% SSJ2 Gohan = 22,840 c
Fat Buu = 44,680 c
SSJ Vegito = 2,284,000 c
Click to expand...
So are we going to use this scale now? Or still the old one?
 
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