Naruto- Current Justification for Toneri’s Moon calc

[AppleLord]

The current calc accepted here uses a wide for the moon slice, it is not supported by multiple visuals of the movie.

1, 2, 3, 4

Is a few meters.

There's also the “Toneri was moving the moon to crash it upon the Earth.” You see this isn't Toneri's feat. But a Hamura feat.

"Hamura created the energy vessel so that, after a thousand years, its accumulated power could be used to help the inhabitants of Earth."​

"One thousand years after Hamura's death, Toneri Ōtsutsuki - misunderstanding Hamura's intentions for the energy vessel - uses it to move the Moon toward the Earth in order to wipe out those living there."​

The feat was created with prep-time, and doesn’t scale directly to the character.​

It only applies to Toneri with Tenseigan / Vessel with prep-time​

The Byakugan eye monster form tried to recreate the feat but after absorbing the chakra from the sun it was going to implode. It shouldn’t scale either.

A new more consistent calc must be created. The current calc is not consistent with the images we see in the movie. (There’s also the whole hollow moon argument which I won’t bring up.)

TLDR the current Toneri calc is not based on the visuals. It completely ignores that the moon was split only a few meters apart.

 

[KingTempest]

I most definitely need to follow this. A thread this controversial is wow.

There's also the “Toneri was moving the moon to crash it upon the Earth.” You see this isn't Toneri's feat. But a Hamura feat.

"Hamura created the energy vessel so that, after a thousand years, its accumulated power could be used to help the inhabitants of Earth."​

"One thousand years after Hamura's death, Toneri Ōtsutsuki - misunderstanding Hamura's intentions for the energy vessel - uses it to move the Moon toward the Earth in order to wipe out those living there."​

This though is wrong.

Hamura didn't make the vessel as it is now, he created the foundations of it. The vessel is the Byakugans of the Otsutsuki clan that were accumulated over time, which is why your quote says "It's accumulated power could be used to help the inhabitants of Earth". It wouldn't make sense for a dead man to add eyes to a battery long after he's dead.

 

[AppleLord]

@Promestein @Ryukama @DontTalkDT@Ultima_Reality @Sera_EX @SomebodyData@Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus@Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King@Andytrenom @DarkDragonMedeus @Wokistan@MrKingOfNegativity @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa@Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Damage3245@WeeklyBattles @Colonel_Krukov@Shadowbokunohero @Ogurtsow @Starter_Pack@Steven_Pogi_Paitao @Mindovin @Jvando@Abstractions @Zaratthustra @SamanPatou@Dino_Ranger_Black @Antoniofer @Gemmysaur@JustSomeWeirdo @LordGriffin1000@Theglassman12 @Schnee_One @Crabwhale@Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath@The_Wright_Way @Ogbunabali @Moritzva@Firestorm808 @DemonGodMitchAubin@Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Executor_N0@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik@KGiffoni @Jasonsith

Calc evaluation would be appreciate.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I mean, OP reasoning would still stand he would just have to change hamura for what u said

 

[AppleLord]

I most definitely need to follow this. A thread this controversial is wow.


This though is wrong.

Hamura didn't make the vessel as it is now, he created the foundations of it. The vessel is the Byakugans of the Otsutsuki clan that were accumulated over time, which is why your quote says "It's accumulated power could be used to help the inhabitants of Earth". It wouldn't make sense for a dead man to add eyes to a battery long after he's dead.

I quoted the Naruto wiki. Their source was the movie.

Can you post screenshots of the movie that backup your argument? We could drop it if so.

 

[Ped2018]

@Promestein @Ryukama @DontTalkDT@Ultima_Reality @Sera_EX @SomebodyData@Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus@Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King@Andytrenom @DarkDragonMedeus @Wokistan@MrKingOfNegativity @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa@Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Damage3245@WeeklyBattles @Colonel_Krukov@Shadowbokunohero @Ogurtsow @Starter_Pack@Steven_Pogi_Paitao @Mindovin @Jvando@Abstractions @Zaratthustra @SamanPatou@Dino_Ranger_Black @Antoniofer @Gemmysaur@JustSomeWeirdo @LordGriffin1000@Theglassman12 @Schnee_One @Crabwhale@Eficiente @GyroNutz @DarkGrath@The_Wright_Way @Ogbunabali @Moritzva@Firestorm808 @DemonGodMitchAubin@Everything12 @Duedate8898 @Executor_N0@Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik@KGiffoni @Jasonsith

Calc evaluation would be appreciate.

only staff members can tag other people

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

This is what AlexSoloVaAlFuturo said in calc

"The first feat is the split moon one, and before you said that there are multiple panels about the stuff haven't moved the distance calculated here: "From what we see in the movie, they show us a far away shot of the distance the moon moved. The moons appear closer together more so due to cinematic workings of the movie. It’s important to note that that point is the only part of the movie where we have a timeframe to work with. Trying to use a 100m or so distance based on other visuals while simultaneously using the timeframe from the scene where Toneri cut the moon is in direct conflict with the scene in question."

So I think it's best to ask him

 

[AppleLord]

only staff members can tag other people

Never heard of that. Must be a new rule. In the old page we were told to tag people and ask to comment in the threads. If it’s a new rule for this website, I apologize.

 

[KingTempest]

Never heard of that. Must be a new rule. In the old page we were told to tag people and ask to comment in the threads. If it’s a new rule for this website, I apologize.

Nah it's not a rule, it's just that when you tag them, they don't see it. Only when staff tag, then people get notifications.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Eh, I treat this as an art inconsistency of the animators not getting how far the moon was split, I still feel the distance used during the scene that the actual feat happened in is more accurate than using those scans above

 

[LordTracer]

Y’know there’s a newer version of Toneri’s calc with HD images

 

[KingTempest]

I quoted the Naruto wiki. Their source was the movie.

Can you post screenshots of the movie that backup your argument? We could drop it if so.

Busy right now, but I will later today

 

[AppleLord]

Eh, I treat this as an art inconsistency of the animators not getting how far the moon was split, I still feel the distance used during the scene that the actual feat happened in is more accurate than using those scans above

Because it is a single image against the visualisation of the story and the ones presented we should take the one inconsistent scene as the wrong one.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Because it is a single image against the visualisation of the story and the ones presented we should take the one inconsistent scene as the wrong one.

The visuals of the feat happening itself is far more reliable than any scene afterwards, we should be using the pixel scaling of the feat itself over any other part of the movie, the scene where the feat happens is far more reliable and accurate than anything else, any other clip is just an art inconsistency as the animators clearly didn't feel the need to show a massive gap between the moon halves, and even then, you could argue the pieces slowly moved closer together over time

 

[AppleLord]

O

The visuals of the feat happening itself is far more reliable than any scene afterwards, we should be using the pixel scaling of the feat itself over any other part of the movie, the scene where the feat happens is far more reliable and accurate than anything else, any other clip is just an art inconsistency as the animators clearly didn't feel the need to show a massive gap between the moon halves, and even then, you could argue the pieces slowly moved closer together over time

Or the pixel scaling was done wrong for that one scene. The calc remains inconsistent.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

O

or the pixel scaling was wrong for that one scene

The pixel scaling was wrong for the actual feat itself? Yeah no... I don't think that's accurate...

 

[AppleLord]

The pixel scaling was wrong for the actual feat itself? Yeah no... I don't think that's accurate...

It’s contradicted by all other visuals in the movie. The goal was to send the moon to the Earth, it makes no sense for the moon to slowly move itself back together when the vessel had control over it.

 

[KingTempest]

The pixel scaling for the feat is flawless Apple.

The consistency for that distance is the issue though.

 

[KingTempest]

you could argue the pieces slowly moved closer together over time

Picture 3 shows the instance immediately after the moon was cut. I don't think it could've closed 6+ km in a few seconds w/out anyone noticing.


P.S. I'm staying away from the moon slicing argument, I'm honestly just here to see who's argument is better

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Well I still believe fully that using the distance from the on screen feat is more accurate than any other scene at all

 

[Jvando]

Well I still believe fully that using the distance from the on screen feat is more accurate than any other scene at all

I agree with it being more of an art inconsistency issue. Look back to the Naruto + Sasuke Moon creation feat where they sealed Kaguya. After the sealing is complete, the panel depicts the moon thousands of Kilometers above the planet but in a couple panels later, we see it seemingly closer to the ground. Ignoring the fact that it’s difficult to se how far away from the ground it is, it’s pretty clearly an art error in which the author isn’t depicting various scenes to perfect scale with each other which makes sense especially when considering the magnitude of the sizes of the objects in question.

Besides as you stated earlier, using the scene of the feat in question is >>>> more reliable than trying to use any other frame afterward.

Even besides that, considering the moon is also moving closer to earth during this period, it’s likely the pierces also just got back together.

 

[Slacjow]

There's also the “Toneri was moving the moon to crash it upon the Earth.” You see this isn't Toneri's feat. But a Hamura feat.

It's true that the Tenseigan was moving the Moon, but after Naruto and Hinata destroyed it, the Moon also stopped, later when Toneri awakened his Tenseigan he used his own power to move the Moon, and that's why he got upgraded in the first place.

TLDR the current Toneri calc is not based on the visuals. It completely ignores that the moon was split only a few meters apart.

And these aren't visuals from the anime?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

And these aren't visuals from the anime?

Link doesn't seem to work

 

[AppleLord]

It's true that the Tenseigan was moving the Moon, but after Naruto and Hinata destroyed it, the Moon also stopped, later when Toneri awakened his Tenseigan he used his own power to move the Moon, and that's why he got upgraded in the first place.

And these aren't visuals from the anime?

I was referring more to ignoring the visuals from the movie in that sense.

 

[Slacjow]

Link doesn't seem to work

For some reasons couldn't link images directly. It's fine now.

I was referring more to ignoring the visuals from the movie in that sense.

Well, you can't simply go ahead and ignore the only reliable source of the feat in the panel it's happening.

 

[AppleLord]

For some reasons couldn't link images directly. It's fine now.

Well, you can't simply go ahead and ignore the only reliable source of the feat in the panel it's happening.

I’m acknowledging that the visual in that feat is not consistent with the rest of the visual, story, and timeframe.

 

[Jvando]

Well, you can't simply go ahead and ignore the only reliable source of the feat in the panel it's happening.

Exactly, feat happened in Scene A, why is usually by Scene B or C more consistent? Because it’s smaller

Theres a reason why when we pixel scale, we don’t use scenes from 10+ chapters out of when the feat occured. We use panels from around when the feat occured.

I can bring in and argue a couple inverse “explanations” as for why the moon appears smaller in those scenes but the only real explanation anyone needs to understand is that fact that it’s a simple animation inconsistency to make the close up shots less of a pain in the ass to deal with. Imagine trying to accurately depict a 10km chasm when depicting scenes directly on the moon.

 

[Jvando]

I’m acknowledging that the visual in that feat is not consistent with the rest of the visual, story, and timeframe.

That scene is in no way inconsistent with the story and how would it even be inconsistent of the timeframe? Those are completely independent variables to each other.

 

[AppleLord]

That scene is in no way inconsistent with the story and how would it even be inconsistent of the timeframe? Those are completely independent variables to each other.

Picture 3 shows the instance immediately after the moon was cut. I don't think it could've closed 6+ km in a few seconds w/out anyone noticing.


P.S. I'm staying away from the moon slicing argument, I'm honestly just here to see who's argument is better

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

That isn't being inconsistent with the story and timeframe though? That's just a visual / animation / art inconsistency

 

[Slacjow]

I’m acknowledging that the visual in that feat is not consistent with the rest of the visual, story, and timeframe.

People acknowledge that it's inconsistent with the rest of visuals that's why it's better to use visuals in the moment the feat is happening, not use only visuals that suit better your cause.

 

[AppleLord]

People acknowledge that it's inconsistent with the rest of visuals that's why it's better to use visuals in the moment the feat is happening, not use only visuals that suit better your cause.

That still doesn’t excuse the inconsistency. We can’t say the animators forgot how far it split apart and later keep a consistent size. The consistent size of the gap overshadows the inconsistent one. Using that logic we can say the animators had the consistent gap in mind when making the movie. The inconsistent one is brought by pixel scaling.

 

[Jvando]

I

That still literally doesn’t answer why that scene is inconsistent to the timeframe and the story. They are independent variables to each other. The scene doesn’t impact the narrative nor does it have anything to do with the timeframe. The only reason one might find it inconsistent to the timeframe is because they think it is.

And I’ll say it again,

“Picture 3 shows the instance immediately after the moon was cut. I don't think it could've closed 6+ km in a few seconds w/out anyone noticing.”

And somehow that’s more accurate than using the scene where the feat in question is taking place? No, it’s not nor has it ever been.

 

[AppleLord]

That still literally doesn’t answer why that scene is inconsistent to the timeframe and the story. They are independent variables to each other. The scene doesn’t impact the narrative nor does it have anything to do with the timeframe. The only reason one might find it inconsistent to the timeframe is because they think it is.

And I’ll say it again,

“Picture 3 shows the instance immediately after the moon was cut. I don't think it could've closed 6+ km in a few seconds w/out anyone noticing.”

And somehow that’s more accurate than using the scene where the feat in question is taking place? No, it’s not nor has it ever been.

“I’ll say it again” “and somehow more accurate...”

This isn’t a rebuttal to timeframe inconsistency, is a question.

The story inconsistency is the first images I posted. The story needs them to be close for the characters to talk.

 

[Jvando]

That still doesn’t excuse the inconsistency. We can’t say the animators forgot how far it split apart and later keep a consistent size. The consistent size of the gap overshadows the inconsistent one. Using that logic we can say the animators had the consistent gap in mind when making the movie. The inconsistent one is brought by pixel scaling.

No one is saying the animators “forgot” how far away the gap was.

what we are saying is that they simply ignored it. You can’t expect them to pixel scale the scene where the feat happened, take their time in measuring it and try to perfectly measure a 10 km gap in every other close up scene of the moon where the bulk of the movie is occurring. Animators aren’t going to do that because it’s a waste of time and neither do we expect them to keep every aspect of the movie consistent.

 

[USklaverei]

This is exactly the same as the feat of Cero Oscuras de Ulquiorra, where using pixels from a distance, it was very large and the size was much smaller up close, so they used the average between them and unless the calculation of Cero Oscuras is updated and make the size bigger, the same thing should happen here.

 

[KingTempest]

This is exactly the same as the feat of Cero Oscuras de Ulquiorra, where using pixels from a distance, it was very large and the size was much smaller up close, so they used the average between them and unless the calculation of Cero Oscuras is updated and make the size bigger, the same thing should happen here.

"They jump off a cliff and don't die, why can't I do it too?"

 

[AppleLord]

No one is saying the animators “forgot” how far away the gap was.

what we are saying is that they simply ignored it. You can’t expect them to pixel scale the scene where the feat happened, take their time in measuring it and try to perfectly measure a 10 km gap in every other close up scene of the moon where the bulk of the movie is occurring. Animators aren’t going to do that because it’s a waste of time and neither do we expect them to keep every aspect of the movie consistent.

Or they never measured it in the first place since the consistent size doesn’t match this one visual.

 

[Slacjow]

This is exactly the same as the feat of Cero Oscuras de Ulquiorra, where using pixels from a distance, it was very large and the size was much smaller up close, so they used the average between them and unless the calculation of Cero Oscuras is updated and make the size bigger, the same thing should happen here.

What does that Bleach calc have to do with GWRE feat? If you have issues with it you should address it.
Also, not everybody here read Bleach and know what you are talking about.

 

[USklaverei]

What does that Bleach calc have to do with GWRE feat? If you have issues with it you should address it.
Also, not everybody here read Bleach and know what you are talking about.

Unless you are blind, you will not know what I am talking about, since I have explained in detail about why they are the same.