Sans vs Junko Enoshima

[Armorchompy]

I want to reiterate that TK is his weakest attack and he only slams people into things with it, so I’m sceptical if it will get passed Junko’s toonforce blunt damage resistance.

Even if it doesn't kill her on the spot (1000x AP advantage, it will), it's gonna at the very least knock her phone out of her hands.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It took a whole minute to make Makoto feel in Despair and wanting to kill himself, same with class 77 despite having a different effect on them. Sans in that time one-shots.

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

Even if it doesn't kill her on the spot (1000x AP advantage, it will), it's gonna at the very least knock her phone out of her hands.

It wouldn’t, since as you say it’s instant, she won’t have pulled it out yet.

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

It took a whole minute to make Makoto feel in Despair and wanting to kill himself, same with class 77 despite having a different effect on them. Sans in that time one-shots.

Isn’t Makoto particularly resistant to those kinds of things given the whole Ultimate Hope thing he has going on? He never gave into despair once, not until he was hypnotized supernaturally.

Edit: Also class 77 weren’t shown the despair video, they just watched their dear friend be cruelly executed.

 

[Armorchompy]

Does she even carry a phone or something to actually show the video?

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

Does she even carry a phone or something to actually show the video?

It’s on her page so presumably so.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It wouldn’t, since as you say it’s instant, she won’t have pulled it out yet.

You just conceded that is a stomp since Junko can't nothing.

Isn’t Makoto particularly resistant to those kinds of things given the whole Ultimate Hope thing he has going on? He never gave into despair once, not until he was hypnotized supernaturally.

He didn't show any resistance to it, he was under it like anyone else, Ultimate Hope is because he can counter Despair with other ways as words or his own charisma. It took the same time with Class 77 who were just regular students about mentality.

Does she even carry a phone or something to actually show the video?

No, she's not Ryota, but even if she had, Sans still nulls her via gravity.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It’s on her page so presumably so.

Standard Equipment: None (Though sometimes seen using baseball bats or ice picks, meaning, she can use most weapons that she sees to benefit her)

No

 

[Armorchompy]

It’s on her page so presumably so.

"Standard Equipment: None (Though sometimes seen using baseball bats or ice picks, meaning, she can use most weapons that she sees to benefit her)"

://///

There's also the fact that since it relies on subliminal messaging and people y'know, understanding the content of the video, it'd probably would be at least less effective if viewed from a tiny screen from far away.

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

You just conceded that is a stomp since Junko can't nothing.

He didn't show any resistance to it, he was under it like anyone else, Ultimate Hope is because he can counter Despair with other ways as words or his own charisma. It took the same time with Class 77 who were just regular students about mentality.

No, she's not Ryota, but even if she had, Sans still nulls her via gravity.

No I didn’t, since no one has refuted my argument that her toon force mitigates or nullifies the damage of him TK slamming her. And yes, he has a strong will and unfailing hopefulness, and once again Class 77 wasn’t shown the despair video.

And yes she does have it since it was on her page in that key and SBA would give it to her.

Edit: It’s listed in Powers and Abilities, if you missed it.

 

[Armorchompy]

No I didn’t, since no one has refuted my argument that her toon force mitigates or nullifies the damage of him TK slamming her. And yes, he has a strong will and unfailing hopefulness, and once again Class 77 wasn’t shown the despair video.

Gravity hax is more than enough to pin her down as Sans attacks her with bone attacks.

And yes she does have it since it was on her page in that key and SBA would give it to her.

Here we go again. This is not what SBA does at all. Just because someone has an ability it doesn't mean they're in the condition to use it. This would be an ability she's allowed to use via prep time.

 

[StrymULTRA]

and once again Class 77 wasn’t shown the despair video.

Dude what? Class 77 fell in Despair because of that, it was one of the main points of Despair Arc's plot.

Here we go again. This is not what SBA does at all. Just because someone has an ability it doesn't mean they're in the condition to use it. This would be an ability she's allowed to use via prep time.

^This

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

Gravity hax is more than enough to pin her down as Sans attacks her with bone attacks.

Here we go again. This is not what SBA does at all. Just because someone has an ability it doesn't mean they're in the condition to use it. This would be an ability she's allowed to use via prep time.

His gravity manipulation doesn’t seem to affect Frisk’s speed, only grounding the flying heart, so it’s possible Junko will still be able to move around. And if it requires prep, it should be listed as such.

 

[Armorchompy]

And if it requires prep, it should be listed as such.

That's not required. It's usually a good idea, but it's not required.

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

Dude what? Class 77 fell in Despair because of that, it was one of the main points of Despair Arc's plot.

^This

I just rewatched the part just a few minutes ago, they clearly despaired when Chiaki died. Unless they were shown the video during the execution or something? I could have missed that I suppose.

 

[StrymULTRA]

His gravity manipulation doesn’t seem to affect Frisk’s speed, only grounding the flying heart, so it’s possible Junko will still be able to move around. And if it requires prep, it should be listed as such.

It still limits their movements, so her phone would still be on the ground as Junko tries to pull it, and when she tries to take it, she gets bone'd to death.

I just rewatched the part just a few minutes ago, they clearly despaired when Chiaki died. Unless they were shown the video during the execution or something? I could have missed that I suppose.

They clearly were, that's how the fell in despair instead of being just sad.

Also

Paralysis Inducement, Mind Manipulation and Morality Manipulation via despair video (Leaking it on the Internet drove a large amount of people to become anarchists that tore down any buildings, killed people with glee and replaced famous buildings with one's themed after Monokuma and Junko. Made class 77 willing to kill themselves to be possessed by her AI, as well as making them psychotic)

Is done with indirect ways, not a direct hax normally, so she'd need prep to be like Ryota.

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

That's not required. It's usually a good idea, but it's not required.

She doesn’t make the video herself though, Ryota does. So it can’t even be listed on her page if she needs to create it alone. As it’s listed there I’m going to assume she can use it.

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

It still limits their movements, so her phone would still be on the ground as Junko tries to pull it, and when she tries to take it, she gets bone'd to death.

They clearly were, that's how the fell in despair instead of being just sad.

Also

Paralysis Inducement, Mind Manipulation and Morality Manipulation via despair video (Leaking it on the Internet drove a large amount of people to become anarchists that tore down any buildings, killed people with glee and replaced famous buildings with one's themed after Monokuma and Junko. Made class 77 willing to kill themselves to be possessed by her AI, as well as making them psychotic)

Is done with indirect ways, not a direct hax normally, so she'd need prep to be like Ryota.

It could be on her phone or something as we’ve discussed earlier, and grav manip won’t necessarily knock it onto the ground if she hasn’t taken it out yet.

 

[StrymULTRA]

It could be on her phone or something as we’ve discussed earlier, and grav manip won’t necessarily knock it onto the ground if she hasn’t taken it out yet.

Let's take these scenes:

• If Junko takes her phone, gravity hax knocks the phone down, Junko tries to get it, but then Sans attacks her and one-shots.
• If Sans garvity haxes, Junko would try to get up and use her phone, but in the process, Sans attacks her and still one-shot.

And his attacks cross 12 metres in a speed comparable of moving a hand, so Junko wouldn't be able to hax Sans regardless.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

How is this going on for so long?

Analytical Prediction does not grant acrobatics, and she lacks the needed showcases of skill to dodge Sans' attacks.
There is no actualy reason why she would be able to predict magic. While supernatural is a thing in Danganronpa, nothing she had to predict broke logic as hard as this.
Sans is a thousand times stronger than her, even his TK one-shots.
Her despair video takes time to kick in, and it assumes that she can grab her phone, go through its memory, and show Sans its contents.


This is a stomp, as simple as that.

 

[Armorchompy]

As it’s listed there I’m going to assume she can use it.

No, you're not, if she can't here.

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

Let's take these scenes:

• If Junko takes her phone, gravity hax knocks the phone down, Junko tries to get it, but then Sans attacks her and one-shots.
• If Sans garvity haxes, Junko would try to get up and use her phone, but in the process, Sans attacks her and still one-shot.

And his attacks cross 12 metres in a speed comparable of moving a hand, so Junko wouldn't be able to hax Sans regardless.

You yourself said he gravity haxes first, so it’s closer to the second scenario. But she wouldn’t take it out yet if she couldn’t use it. Not to mention she can still potentially dodge the bones if it only grounds her instead of immobilizing her, and Sans doesn’t keep his foes perpetually grav haxxed in character so when he relents she’ll pull it out and get him with paralysis and then despair.

 

[Armorchompy]

You yourself said he gravity haxes first, so it’s closer to the second scenario. But she wouldn’t take it out yet if she couldn’t use it. Not to mention she can still potentially dodge the bones if it only grounds her instead of immobilizing her, and Sans doesn’t keep his foes perpetually grav haxxed in character so when he relents she’ll pull it out and get him with paralysis and then despair.

The bones cover several meters of ground, come out in a split second and speed is equalized. Literally impossible to dodge even if you have the acrobatics to, which she does not, AND SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE PHONE TO BEGIN WITH

 

[StrymULTRA]

Despair video takes a minute to fully affect the opponent, that would just annoy Sans in a death battle scenario lmao.

You yourself said he gravity haxes first, so it’s closer to the second scenario. But she wouldn’t take it out yet if she couldn’t use it. Not to mention she can still potentially dodge the bones if it only grounds her instead of immobilizing her, and Sans doesn’t keep his foes perpetually grav haxxed in character so when he relents she’ll pull it out and get him with paralysis and then despair.

In that attempt she'd get attacked, there's a whole process of getting up, taking the phone and use it, while Sans attacks cross the whole area in a way shorter time.

 

[ShionAH]

This is still going? Stomp (Sans favour)

 

[Zencha9]

Im gonna probably fix that she does have her phone but she can't use before getting one shotted by TK

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

How is this going on for so long?

Analytical Prediction does not grant acrobatics, and she lacks the needed showcases of skill to dodge Sans' attacks.
There is no actualy reason why she would be able to predict magic. While supernatural is a thing in Danganronpa, nothing she had to predict broke logic as hard as this.
Sans is a thousand times stronger than her, even his TK one-shots.
Her despair video takes time to kick in, and it assumes that she can grab her phone, go through its memory, and show Sans its contents.


This is a stomp, as simple as that.

Fair enough. It was hard as hell debating when I was working under the impression the fight could go either way, what with her best wincon being restricted, her potential ability to resist TK being ignored and her skills being downplayed. But if this is a stomp then I concede, in an unfair fight like this Junko just doesn’t stand a chance. Gives me some ideas for another Sans fight though!

It might seem weird to say considering how high strung we got, but looking back I think I actually enjoyed this. I haven’t had the opportunity to so fiercely discuss a topic in a long time. “Good Game” as it were to the rest of you, even you Armorchompy, whom I was previously upset with, you ”fought” well.

I need to go take a break, my body is trembling and I’m really hungry. I’ve just been sitting here doing nothing else this whole time.

Edit: I should make clear I’m not being sarcastic and holy crap I’m getting dizzy and faint I don’t feel good bye.

 

[Armorchompy]

I need to go take a break, my body is trembling and I’m really hungry. I’ve just been sitting here doing nothing else this whole time.

You should probably not take it this seriously, you risk harming yourself for a hobby.

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

You should probably not take it this seriously, you risk harming yourself for a hobby.

My muscles are super stiff but I’m no longer hyperventilating and by lungs and brain feel better now. I really didn’t think anything was wrongb I only got this sudennly over a few seconds

Edit: Completely fine now. If this is a stomp it should be closed right? I’d call a mod myself but that’s currently beyond my knowledge.

 

[Armorchompy]

My muscles are super stiff but I’m no longer hyperventilating and by lungs and brain feel better now. I really didn’t think anything was wrongb I only got this sudennly over a few seconds

Alright, just for future reference though, you don't need to reply every few minutes, plenty of VS threads have one or two replies a day and that's fine.

Edit: Completely fine now. If this is a stomp it should be closed right? I’d call a mod myself but that’s currently beyond my knowledge.

Yeah, it should be closed.

 

[A_Hero_Long_Forgotten]

Alright, just for future reference though, you don't need to reply every few minutes, plenty of VS threads have one or two replies a day and that's fine.

Yeah, it should be closed.

Yeah I know, I just like keeping the discussion up. Too many threads fall into obscurity due to no one commenting enough.

 

[Antvasima]

I was asked to close this due to it being a stomp thread.