Abstract Existence Questions

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I have a few questions regarding Abstract Existence and whether or not a potential character I know would qualify for it.

First things first, the abstract existence itself. If a character is able to, say, exist solely as nothingness and a will, without any physical form for them, would they be considered abstract?

Want that answered first before I get to the 2nd question.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

case by case, it could be unspecified standard No-colpore, unless you have more context like: "my through sheer will, I have become pure thoughts without physical form"

then it is likely since thoughts are abstract to some degree.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hmm okay. What about also existing as nothingness without a physical form then?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

well that is also variable, nothingness could be NEP(IdK 1 0r 2) as well or something like that.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hmm okay. Well lets assume for a moment that it would qualify as AE.

What type woudl the AE be if the character in question was incapable of being killed, even by existence erasure?

 

[Warren_Valion]

If he exists as nothingness, then that could be NEP.

Existing through one's will, is just non-corporeality, unless of course, he exists as willpower or something like that, that would be AE.

But if he exists at willpower, then I feel that contradicts existing as nonexistence.

 

[Planck69]

From what I understand, being nothingness is NEP and being pure will should be AE.

 

[Antoniofer]

One can be "nothingness" and still have its own will; in true is that there's little difference between the more simple forms of NEP and AE.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

One can be "nothingness" and still have its own will; in true is that there's little difference between the more simple forms of NEP and AE.

Oh ofc it can have its own will, my question was moreso about if they existed as a will.

 

[Antoniofer]

Eh, people get mixed too much non-corporeal, nep and ae that the difference is thin; is someone is it own will (like Der Kaizer) then your non-corporeal, if one is [fully] made nothingness then it's non-corporeal as well (not the same as made of vacuum or being nep), now if in top of being non-corporeal one is imperceptible then it's nonexistent (although this may be subjective).

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

So ultimately, NEP and AE are very similar then?

 

[Antoniofer]

I would say that both are the very similar except for few details: NEP is imperceptible (at least by most individuals), in its maximum expression they are devoid of aspects, making them immune to several forms of Concept Manipulation (although I would consider this to be just a different power). Not that someone with AE can't be immune to these powers or imperceptible to certain individuals, so there's middle ground where both powers are kind of the same.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Okay then. So as far as actually rating the abilities ago, what would we put?

Could Absract Existence be rated as a “likely”, “possibly”, or not listed at all and just go with NEP?

 

[Antoniofer]

Iirc, AE pages says that, in order too obtain the power, one needs to be immortal and come back as long whatever it represent remain existing, something is not the case here. If I were you I'll simply rate it as Non-corporeal, ad then simply add any other power it has show.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually I did mention that the character would be incapable of being killed earlier:

What type woudl the AE be if the character in question was incapable of being killed, even by existence erasure?

 

[Antoniofer]

In what sense? Like being immune/resistente to Destruction/EE, or simply it regenerate from it?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Both actually.

For the resistance, Characters who have EE are incapable of permanently killing him.

And for the regen, a level of EE that actually works against the character still can’t permanently kill them. Their nothingness can be erased from an entire realm, but they regen afterwards.

 

[Antoniofer]

"Incapable of permanently killing him" sounds like the EE works, but either partially or the character regenerate afterwards.
"Their nothingness can be erased from an entire realm" sounds kind of weird and needs context. What even is this serie?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Ah sorry, i'll give more context for the latter.

Inside the realm I was referring to earlier, losing is considered the same thing as death. When losing a battle, you are no longer able to exist within this realm and are expelled out of it. As demonstrated, you are erased.



This being of nothingness and the main protags & antags were fighting each other inside this realm (clip is just to prove the nonexistent enemy was inside of it)



When the main antagonist whom the nonexistent being (called Void) was partnered with is defeated (skip to 3:30 onwards), Void gets expelled from the realm as neither of them can no longer exist inside the dimension. However, Void still very much existed outside of the dimension as shown later in the clip.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

that can also be Immortality 8 or maybe 5(due to not existing, you cannot kill something that does not exist) if he don't have enough AE feats.

(also anime name?)

 

[Antoniofer]

Unfortunately I'm not in conditions to check those videos, so can't confirm nor deny anything.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Unfortunately I'm not in conditions to check those videos, so can't confirm nor deny anything.

Oh my bad then Ant

 

[StrymULTRA]

How fortunate, we've the perfect example for this.

Tho it should be Type 1 NEP

 

[Antoniofer]

I mean, going by the description, Muso Tensei simply makes you intangible plus other few powers, is not really different than Intangibility or Non-corporeal + something else.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, going by the description, Muso Tensei simply makes you intangible plus other few powers, is not really different than Intangibility or Non-corporeal + something else.

Both say that you become nothingless tho, but I guess so

 

[Antoniofer]

In some verses, nothingness is treat as another element: you have not having physical body, something ghosts and spirits lack, they phase through matter with variable secundary effects (generally nothing or chills); then you have made of of nothingness, that is like if the user were Vanilla Ice and could erase matter (or even more) in contact (in top of possibly being intangible).

 

[Planck69]

Kenshiro is more of the latter.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

that can also be Immortality 8 or maybe 5(due to not existing, you cannot kill something that does not exist) if he don't have enough AE feats.

(also anime name?)

Hmm okay. I just went under the assumption that the "not dying" part would help indicate AE since our page for it specifies this in the descrption.

 

[Antoniofer]

That's what I thought. So how you dicern, being made of nothingness do not makes you nonexistent, but rather possibly (there's always especial cases, like that one child from Inuyasha) intangible/non-corporeal.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Soo just that I get an official answer out of this, it would be safer to just list this as NEP + Non-Corporeal + a type of Immortality until more feats for AE come?

 

[StrymULTRA]

In some verses, nothingness is treat as another element: you have not having physical body, something ghosts and spirits lack, they phase through matter with variable secundary effects (generally nothing or chills); then you have made of of nothingness, that is like if the user were Vanilla Ice and could erase matter (or even more) in contact (in top of possibly being intangible).

Ken before had his intangibility counterable only via Void Manip as stated before in his weaknesses section, that's why it got straight to NEP.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Soo just that I get an official answer out of this, it would be safer to just list this as NEP + Non-Corporeal + a type of Immortality until more feats for AE come?

well, unless there are more arguments in favor of AE, I think yes.

(also name of the series?)

 

[StrymULTRA]

(also name of the series?)

Vanguard

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

well, unless there are more arguments in favor of AE, I think yes.

(also name of the series?)

My bad. The series is Cardfight!! Vanguard

And kk. I’m working on the verse atm so as of now, there might not be anything new to add in.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Now for the type of immortality to be added:

that can also be Immortality 8 or maybe 5(due to not existing, you cannot kill something that does not exist) if he don't have enough AE feats.

Which type would be more appropriate? T8 or T5?

 

[Antoniofer]

Rather than granting powers merely by an association, consider checking if the character is actually immortal.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well aside from it being a nonexistent being, characters who use EE are incapable of killing him

And when a level of EE used against him actually works, the character still isn’t able to be killed.

Shouldn’t that be suitable enough to say immortality of some kind is appropriate?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

well that seems type 5

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

well that seems type 5

Okay then, thanks