Fallout Unfucking-Up Thread

[Keeweed]

Time manipulation came from the current profile, but perception manipulation is definitely better.

The shotgun perk just makes the bullets ignore some DT which other profiles for other versus rate as durability negation (dark souls and Terraria have similar abilities). The piercing strike should be removed though.

Wild Wasteland is a pretty strange one. I want more opinions on that one.

The purifier perk I guess just shouldn’t be mentioned.

 

[Keeweed]

Also what about Equipment, can someone compile that as well?

I'll make a blog for the rework.

I have some homework to do soon. After I finish it I’ll do the equipment.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Isn't there just a list of Weapons and Armor you can acquire on the Fallout Wiki?

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah. The weapons, armor, and items will be easy to find, we just need to find the powers they add.

 

[The_Impress]

Fallout: Rework

vsbattles.fandom.com

Current state of rework, I am listing all the Perks and stuff as mentioned above, a few minor changes tho

 

[The_Impress]

If some of the feats mentioned above have video examples, it'll be great if someone could provide them, especially for Intelligence and Luck feats

 

[Keeweed]

I’ll find a lot more of the luck and intelligence feats later, but here’s the casino kicking you out because you keep winning too much: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...=fnhJzXcpILo&usg=AOvVaw3Ltj5UVVZ94fz3y8cPcfDH

 

[Keeweed]

Ok I finished my work for today. When it comes to the courier rework:

One of the poison resistance scans isn’t linked properly. Why was the status effects inducement and paralysis inducement removed. The Courier can stun people and paralyze people without equipment (Paralyzing Palm and the Khan trick). The Courier should still have limited durability negation with his shotguns. His perk has the same mechanics as the shark tooth necklace in Terraria and a katana in Dark Souls and both currently have durability negation on this site. Finally, I checked, and the Courier’s resistance to energy weapons also applies to the sonic emitter so he should have resistance to sound manipulation (Fallout NV is very generous with what counts as energy weapons, but the In Shining Armor perk is a bit more effective against lasers than it is other energy based weapons).

edit: I also forgot the Courier should have immense pain tolerance since they can still fight after have every bone in their body broken.

 

[Keeweed]

I’ve gathered up all the powers from equipment I could find. Note one of the justification for radiation resistance would need to be move from natural powers to the equipment key and healing will entirely move to the equipment key. The Courier will still have regeneration in the natural key, he just doesn’t have Stimpaks in that key.


Fallout NV equipment:

Energy Manipulation, Plasma Manipulation, Energy Projection (Many of their weapons can shoot lasers and Plasma, the Euclid C-Finder can direct a satellite laser at opponents once a day, has plasma grenades and mines), Matter Manipulation (Their plasma weapons can destabilize opponents on a molecule level, turning them to goop), Heat Manipulation (The Laser Detonator heats up nukes until they explode), Light Manipulation (Many of their weapons can shoot lasers, they have flash bangs, and their pip-boy can produce light), Electricity Manipulation (The Tesla Cannon shoots large beams of electricity, the Arc welder shoots streams of electricity, has a cattle prod, the X-2 antenna shocks opponents it hits, has a pulse gun, pulse grenades, mines, and ammo that can EMP robots and machines), Fire Manipulate (Has a multitude of Flamethrowers, incendiary grenades, incendiary rounds, and Molotov Cocktails), Explosive Manipulation (Can fire small nukes at opponents, have a multitude of rocket launchers, grenade launchers, grenades, mines, dynamite, and homemade explosives; has holy frag grenades which explode into small nuclear explosions), Radiation Manipulation (Their mini nukes spread radiation), Sound Manipulation (The sonic emitter can shoot sound waves that turn off force fields), Enhanced Senses (The K9000 cyberdog gun can smell enemies near the Courier, Cateye allows them to see in the dark, Ghost Sight allows the Courier to see in dark and through fog and illusions, the stealth suit increases the users perception, elite riot gear and Ranger Armor has built in night vision and advanced optics), limited Teleportation (Can travel to the Big Mountain with the Transportalponder Device), Invisibility (Stealth Boys turn the Courier), Stealth Mastery (The Stealth Suit makes the Courier vastly harder to detect, allows the Courier the ability to effortlessly sneak around military drones designed to find the stealth suit), Purification (Type 3, Can cure poisons and toxins with Antivenom), Healing (Via Stimpaks), Poison Manipulation (Can put a multitude of different poisons and toxins on their weapons), Perception Manipulation (Turbo makes their view of the world slow down), Self-Sustenance (The Space Suit allows them to survive in space and the rebreather allows them to breath underwater), Statistics Amplification, and Statistics Reduction (Can increase their mental and physical stats with different drugs, but these drugs also decrease other stats in the process, can increase their stats temporarily by reading books and magazines, Power Armor can increase their strength, the Courier’s Duster can either increase luck, strength, endurance, or agility depending on which duster it is, Ulysses Duster makes the Courier more charismatic, and the Atomic-valence tri-radii-oscillator increases their regeneration)

Resistance to Pain Manipulation (Med-X makes them more resilient to pain), Poison Manipulation (The Hazmat suit and Courier Duster ‘Blackjack’ make them more resistant to poisons), and Radiation Manipulation (Rad-X increases their resistance to radiation, radiation suits protect them from radiation, the Courier’s Duster ‘Old World Justice’ makes them more resilient to radiation, the Space Suit can block out radiation, Ulysses Mask allows the Courier to breath radiating air without suffering from negative effects)

Standard Equipment: Stealth Suit Mark II (The stealth suit was designed to drastically increase the user’s stealth capabilities. It is equipped with an A.I that will automatically inject the Courier with Stimpaks or drugs if they need them, informs them of nearby hostiles, and tells the Courier if they are currently hidden or not)

 

[The_Impress]

I'll try to fix the Poison Scan

Stunning inherently isn't Status Effect Inducement and if other sources are listing it for mundane abilities then remove them. Isn't Khan Trick literally just throwing dust in the opponent's eyes? Miss Fortune's own ability shouldn't be on the Courier's profile and Paralyzing Palm I'll add ig.

You're acting like Dark Souls and TerrarIa have bosses which aren't straight up tiers apart as opposed to Fallout which aren't that majorly split, most of the characters capping at Tier 9 to low end Tier 8. Piercing damage alone can't really explain that insane a gap there, but here it can :V

Regarding Tech P&A:

Fun fact, Lasers are also under Heat Manipulation.

EMP we also list as Limited Technology Manipulation

Isn't Sound damage's ability to turn off forcefield their own tech's weakness rather than the gun's strength?

Stealth Suit may be Camouflage rather than Stealth Mastery

Also isn't the Stealth Suit Optional Equipment?

 

[Keeweed]

The stealth suit I think was required to beat the dlc. The stealth suit definitely isn’t camouflage because it doesn’t make you invisible or hide you like stealth boys, it just increases the user’s stealth abilities.

when it comes to sound manipulation I guess it could be a weakness of the Forcefields.

Ms Fortune’s ability should be on the Courier’s profile because he summons her. He uses her to attack so her powers should be listed on his profile (for example the Terrarian has his summons powers listed on his profile).

Terraria’s durability negation literally works exactly the same as the shotgun perk. The perk is specifically stated to ignore some of the opponents DT, which is the very same reason Terraria has its durability negation.

The way the Courier stuns people can be status effect inducement since other characters have it for blinding people with mud or blinding lights. Pretty much you can have the power even if you inflict the status effect through natural means (poison also apparently falls under status effect inducement, even when that is naturally delivered).


Unrelated note: I was looking up things you can do with luck in NV and you can do Caesar’s brain surgery through sheer luck.

 

[The_Impress]

You know whataboutisms only get you that far, right? The Dark Souls thing I already got a revision going to remove that by that verse's supporter. I'll check Terrarian's nonsense too.

Also Miss Fortune and Mysterious Stranger are beings independent of The Courier, they're not some pet they own or a Pokémon. They're not getting their shit listed on the page.

Clips of said stunning? And no, if any profile lists hax for otherwise mundane abilities feel free to remove them from others' too. It is literally one of the points we note as wanking and get pages deleted off of that.

 

[Keeweed]

Profile straight get deleted for stuff like that. Weird, but I guess I’m fine not adding it then (the stunning).

The Mysterious Stranger is his own entity, but I’m pretty sure ms fortune isn’t. It’s weird that her paralysis won’t be mentioned on the Courier’s profile when that’s the main reason they summons them. If it isn’t in the powers and abilities section maybe it should be mentioned in the techniques section then?

For the durability negation stuff I’ll make a thread for Terraria. If it gets removed from Terraria’s profile I’ll be fine with it not being on the Courier’s.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Though I think I may have found a supporting feat. I believe you can vaporize the drilling ‘tanks’ in the fallout 3 dlc. I know it is a simulation, but it’s supposed to be an accurate to real life one.

As a note, it is not. In fact a computer terminal outright said that Chase had changed it so heavily that it no longer reflected real life.

Sim back up and running after another few days of changes. Chase is running everyone ragged, making tweaks here and there. The sim is, without any shadow of a doubt, divorced from reality. I've never seen the classified military reports, but some of the stuff Chase has added to the sim? There's no way it happened like that.
Version 7-36-099 was scrapped after Chase decided his face didn't look just right. I realize progress reports aren't the place for this, but there are concerns that the man is losing it. No one confronts him because everyone is scared. After West-Tek dropped off the grid, there were lots of rumors about the military commandeering private contractors, and no one wants to give Chase a reason to do that here. But really, what's the point in running this sim over and over and over? Any tactical data was mined months ago.

So I don't think we should use it as a tier justification

Also I remember there was an 8-B calc? What happened to it?

It was removed as an outlier. Well that and the massive amount of low showings Power Armor has that makes anything above 9-A unreasonable lore wise

 

[Keeweed]

The simulation not being used is fine. Vaporization feats already got nuked for this verse anyways since lasers will no longer scale to the characters’ normal durability (I think it still scales to their durability against heat and energy based attacks, but I don’t really understand the heat revisions). How about the Courier’s sandbox, is it ok right now?

Edit: this one

Fallout: Rework

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Qawsedf234]

The only issue I have with it is assuming all perks are available, when you cannot get all of them game wise. Other than that, yeah its pretty good.

 

[Keeweed]

Well I’m not sure how we handle things like that. I know all the powers should be listed since he can get those powers, but should we have it be a weakness that he can’t have all the perks at once, or a note on the profile?

 

[Qawsedf234]

A note may be needed. That or we do something weirdly extreme and just give everything a possibly rating or something.

 

[Keeweed]

It definitely wouldn’t be a possibly everything because other verses with optional equipment list the powers as is. It just usually is either mentioned to be optional by being in a different power key or is noted in the weakness section. The Courier can definitely get these powers so we can either put the perks in their own key and say in the weakness section he can only have a large but limited amount, or we can just have a note explaining it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

A note explaining it would probably be the best.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

The only issue I have with it is assuming all perks are available, when you cannot get all of them game wise. Other than that, yeah its pretty good.

So this mean that some perks can only be obtained under certain condition? It sound like gameplay mechanic to me, though.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Fallout: Rework

vsbattles.fandom.com

Current state of rework, I am listing all the Perks and stuff as mentioned above, a few minor changes tho

I think the AP section should be changed a bit like:

"most weapons range from Street level to Small Building level (Many of his weapons are capable of this level of destruction. Energy weapons such as the Laser Rifle is capable of turning large bears to ash). Building level with Mini Nuke (Fat Man fires small scale nuclear missiles Destroyed giant robo-scorpion that can tank mini-nukes. Fought Tunnelers, a creature that can rip Deathclaws in half)"

 

[Qawsedf234]

So this mean that some perks can only be obtained under certain condition? It sound like gameplay mechanic to me, though.

Well it's two fold

• Some perks and traits are mutually exclusive with one another
• The Courier cannot get every perk due to leveling limitations

 

[The_Impress]

It's not a gameplay mechanic, I think the implication is you get gradually more accustomed to survival within the Mojave and learn new tricks and abilities to help you.

3D Fallout are actually decently non-game mechanics derived as most features within are stand-ins for actual survival elements :V

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'm fine with the perks, its just that the Courier cannot get every single one of them.

 

[The_Impress]

Oh yeah, surely

 

[Idazmi]

Not sure how relevant this is, but I have a few feats regarding Energy Weapons and Power Armor. First, I want to note the original official descriptions of Power Armor provided by Interplay:

"The T-51b Powered Infantry Armor is designed with the latest passive defense features for both civilian and military disturbances. The back-mounted TX-28 MicroFusion Pack generates 60,000 Watts to power the HiFlo hydraulic systems built into the frame of the suit. Made of the latest poly-laminate composite, the T-51b shell is lightweight and capable of absorbing over 2,500 Joules of kinetic impact. The 10 micron silver ablative coating can reflect laser and radiation emissions without damage to the composite subsurface." - Fallout 1, ZAX computer at WestTek research facility.

Please note that 2.5 kilojoule statement is referring to the lightweight outer shell, not the entirety of the armor, which is quite heavy. Additionally, the file says over 2,500 joules, making it a lower end estimate of the outer shell's durability, not a maximum. The armor is also custom fitted to maximize mobility:

"Cumbersome? Not in the least. The sacred armor is so finely constructed to such exacting specifications that it feels like an extension of the blessed one's own body. It increases one's strength many times over and helps you resist the effects of radiation so that you may more effectively serve the brotherhood. I would feel diminished without my holy armor." - Fallout 1, Paladin Darrel.

On to feats.



^ This is a scripted sequence from Fallout: New Vegas. In it, we see the Van Graff family execute a man with a laser rifle, which instantly disintegrates him into a pile of ash.



^ In this scripted sequence from Fallout 4, the same model of laser does essentially nothing to Power Armor at close range (the first weapon demonstrated, the laser rifle, is how the event is actually shown in-game).



^ In another scripted sequence, Paladin Danse is positioned directly under a large rocket engine, which disintegrates his Synth attackers (who had him under heavy laserfire for several minutes prior - the laser beams can be seen deflecting off of his armor) and heats his armor to a deep red. Despite this, both Danse and his armor are not noticeably affected. This feat would involve not only heat, but a massive amount of pressure, sufficient to begin carrying a rocket into space.



^ This is a fight from Fallout 1: Super Mutants vs the Vault Dweller and all possible companions (this is not a mod). When the fight begins, the Vault Dweller has 101 hit points. Katja has 39, Dogmeat and Ian both have 50, and Tycho has 60. Thanks to the Power Armor's resistance, the Vault Dweller is able to resist far more damage than his allies, even considering his higher Hp. Each of the companions is hopelessly gunned down like cannon fodder while the Vault Dweller tanks multiple minigun bursts with only minimal damage.

When only one Super Mutant is left, out of ammo, the Vault Dweller deliberately puts his gun aside to try and beat him to death with his fists, taking zero damage from the Super Mutant's punches aside from one lucky critical, which only did 7 damage.



Here we see the Vault Dweller in Power armor using a bazooka on a pack of Radcorpions literally less than a meter from him. He is damaged in the ensuing blast (going from 103 hit points to 95), but the Radscorpions are simply obliterated.

 

[Qawsedf234]

In another scripted sequence, Paladin Danse is positioned directly under a large rocket engine, which disintegrates his Synth attackers (who had him under heavy laserfire for several minutes prior - the laser beams can be seen deflecting off of his armor) and heats his armor to a deep red.

While the rocket firing is scripted, Danse being under it is not. The AI just makes it likely because it always guns for them.

The other parts are gameplay elements and not lore backed. Such as explosives and sustained gunfire regularly overwhelming PA

Ramos: I'm sure someone's told you all this before. Several years back, we were running our chapter out the HELIOS One solar power station. Our Elder at the time, Elijah, had some kind of obsession with the place. Which is the only reason we stayed as long as we did. That place was hardly defensible, and we knew the NCR was moving in on us, but the Elder refused to budge, insisting that he just needed "more time". We never found out what he needed the time for. Wave upon wave of NCR troopers hit us from all directions. We held out for a time, but we were grossly outnumbered, and they had more men than we had ammo. Eventually our positions collapsed. Elder Elijah was nowhere to be found, so McNamara took charge and led what remained of us on a counter-offensive west. We lost a lot of men and women, but we broke through and made it here. Make no mistake, McNamara saved this chapter that day.

Multiple T-60 suits were destroyed by rockets and mines then scuttled

Log 012287-1

After several months, my squad has just crossed the border and entered the Commonwealth. We've chosen to immediately search the Boston region with the intention of finding a secure building to use as our recon headquarters.

Soon after, my squad was ambushed by Raiders. Knight Keane's Power Armor was destroyed and we lost some of our supplies. Fortunately, we were able to repel the attack and continue our mission.

Log 042287-3

As we approached, our squad was hit with gunfire. Knight Worwick was wounded, so I decided to fall back to Cambridge. During our retreat, Knight Brach stepped on a landmine. Scribe Haylen attempted to treat him, but Brach succumbed to his wounds and died. Let it be noted for the record that Haylen is to be commended for her efforts.

Medical File WR-113K Knight Worwick

Suffered multiple GSW to the leg and torso. Was able to extract most of embedded bullet shrapnel. Patient lost approximately 2 quarts of blood. Was able to supplement with emergency blood packs. Torso wounds caused massive internal bleeding. Attempted to implement internal sutures but facility is insufficient for surgery of that magnitude.

Due to patient's pain and quality of life, commanding officer ordered me to administer overdose of painkiller for euthanization purposes. Dose administered 49 hours after incident. Subject died peacefully.

Medical File BR-122K Knight Brach

Medical File BR-122K Knight Brach Subject stepped on explosive device causing catastrophic trauma to left and right legs, severe trauma to torso and left arm and major trauma to right arm and chest. Rapid response triage used to cauterize open wounds, administered multiple Stimpak) meds but damage was unrecoverable. Patient died approximately 3 minutes after incident.

High falls are something PA cannot handle

Ingram: I was fighting with the Brotherhood in the Capital Wasteland. Worked at a staging area for the Power Armor troops. Our position was along a ridgeline overlooking the battlefield. I'd say it was a hundred foot drop, give or take. To make a long story short, the ridge I was standing on took a hit from a nuke. Sheered most of the cliff right off and caused the platform I was standing on to tumble over the side. If I hadn't have been test-piloting one of the Power Armor suits at the time, I would have died."

McLaren got his suit wiped out trying to drop from the top of Trinity Tower, so the current record holder is still Petris with his Prydwen-to-ground drop. Remember, no leg armor mods allowed, just a clean jump with standard T-60 and you have to be able to walk away. No exceptions.

There are two pre-scripted events of a raider group attacking and killing an Enclave Patrol outpost and using their armor

The Glow's secruity system easily wiped out a BoS patrol

When Jensen dropped to the third level, all hell broke loose. The security sensors had been burned out on the first two levels, but not on the third. Jensen was cut to ribbons before he knew what had happened. We'd never seen weapons cut through power armor like that. Men started dropping right and left, and the ones who were still alive lost it. I tried to regroup, but only Soto and Camarillo made it back up here to the first level with me.

Finally for the laser stuff, do note this is what the BoS said about their laser rifles against the much superior APA Mark II stuff they were going against

Lone Wanderer: So... Any thoughts on the Enclave?

Scribe Peabody: So they have Plasma weapons! Bah! It's strong technology, I'll give you that, but limited in modability. I've already started removing the compensators on our laser weapons to cut through the black devil Power Armor of theirs.

Like overall Power Armor is not consistently good enough to get anything above a 9-A rating in my view. Using gameplay to write off consistent lore is just not a thing we should do.

 

[Idazmi]

While the rocket firing is scripted, Danse being under it is not. The AI just makes it likely because it always guns for them.

The other parts are gameplay elements and not lore backed. Such as explosives and sustained gunfire regularly overwhelming PA (...) Like overall Power Armor is not consistently good enough to get anything above a 9-A rating in my view. Using gameplay to write off consistent lore is just not a thing we should do.

Except I'm not using gameplay to override lore. That room is so small and the rocket so powerful that Danse is under extreme pressure no matter where he is inside it - enough to disintegrate a bunch of Synths. Adding to that, in the same scene the Synths greatly outnumber Danse and were firing plenty of laser fire at him from close range, and his armor didn't even come close to compromising. That's a scripted feat, and so is the Brotherhood initiate shooting that Knight's armor at point-blank and accomplishing nothing. The gameplay elements I posted are in no way inconsistent with this depiction, which is in fact lore.

Multiple T-60 suits were destroyed by rockets and mines then scuttled

High falls are something PA cannot handle

There are two pre-scripted events of a raider group attacking and killing an Enclave Patrol outpost and using their armor

The Glow's secruity system easily wiped out a BoS patrol

Finally for the laser stuff, do note this is what the BoS said about their laser rifles against the much superior APA Mark II stuff they were going against

Like overall Power Armor is not consistently good enough to get anything above a 9-A rating in my view. Using gameplay to write off consistent lore is just not a thing we should do.

The only thing you've proven is that the Fallout Universe contains weapons that are powerful enough to damage power armor - a statement that goes without saying. In fact, some of your rebuttal choices have me confused:

Ingram: I was fighting with the Brotherhood in the Capital Wasteland. Worked at a staging area for the Power Armor troops. Our position was along a ridgeline overlooking the battlefield. I'd say it was a hundred foot drop, give or take. To make a long story short, the ridge I was standing on took a hit from a nuke. Sheered most of the cliff right off and caused the platform I was standing on to tumble over the side. If I hadn't have been test-piloting one of the Power Armor suits at the time, I would have died."

Ingram surviving a close nuclear strike that sheered off most of a cliff, and then falling a hundred feet in Power Armor and surviving with only a damaged spine is not a mere 9-A feat. And the case with the Glow's security system:

When Jensen dropped to the third level, all hell broke loose. The security sensors had been burned out on the first two levels, but not on the third. Jensen was cut to ribbons before he knew what had happened. We'd never seen weapons cut through power armor like that. Men started dropping right and left, and the ones who were still alive lost it. I tried to regroup, but only Soto and Camarillo made it back up here to the first level with me.

That's WestTek research facility, the very place that developed Power Armor - of course they would also have developed weapons able to destroy it. That same location contains this research note:

The Military has deemed it necessary for us to research further in depth the effects of wave technology upon living organisms. We have taken light and sound as the basis of our studies. By manipulating the amplitude of the light waves and magnifying the frequency, we have been able to get lasers which will cut through a few feet a steel. Unfortunately, the power to do such a task has not been fully developed. We have other scientists looking into this.

Consider that the ammunition for lasers in Fallout is the Microfusion Cell: essentially a little fusion reactor:

Analysis -> The Plasma Rifle, like the Laser Rifle, uses a micro fusion cell as its power supply. It taps into the cell, essentially a small fusion reactor, to produce a toroid of plasma that is ejected down a superconductor barrel. A typical micro fusion cell can supply the rifle with around eight shots. Further research needs to be done to determine exactly how the plasma retains its density while traveling through the air toward its target.

And your reference for Power Armor not being able to handle long falls records a successful Prydwin-to-ground drop. Seems like it's more a matter of personal skill than the suit being unable to survive the fall. Considering that the armor is fitted to the wearer, that makes sense. As of Fallout 4, Raiders and Gunners are shown to use Power Armor and energy weapons, so them being able to kill Brotherhood soldiers isn't an anti-feat.

The only lore that seems to agree with your assessment of 9-A Power Armor is the Helios One example, where NCR attacked the Brotherhood, and even that doesn't mention what specific weapons were being used. Everything else you presented actually implies a fair bit more than 9-A. Even in the case of Helios, the Brotherhood wasn't there to fight, and was outnumbered 20 to 1.

Lone Wanderer: So... Any thoughts on the Enclave?

Scribe Peabody: So they have Plasma weapons! Bah! It's strong technology, I'll give you that, but limited in modability. I've already started removing the compensators on our laser weapons to cut through the black devil Power Armor of theirs.

That just means the lasers include components that limit their firepower - components that can be removed. In fact, your character can deliberately create Overcharged microfusion cells for greater firepower, and other tricks like removing the safety cap from them to make grenades that flash-vaporize armored enemies and the like. For reference, this is what laser weapons look like when you fully specialize into them:



A fair bit more impressive than the Van Graffs showing of a simple, market-standard laser rifle, which would be insufficient to damage Power Armor.

 

[Keeweed]

When it comes to Danse surviving the rocket I’m pretty sure there is straight up dialogue saying that he survives the rocket due to his power armor. I’ll check after I do my quiz, but that’s going to be a while from now.

 

[Qawsedf234]

That room is so small and the rocket so powerful that Danse is under extreme pressure no matter where he is inside it

That was my point with the rocket. Him being in there isn't scripted, just likely considering how the AI targets enemies.

As of Fallout 4, Raiders and Gunners are shown to use Power Armor and energy weapons, so them being able to kill Brotherhood soldiers isn't an anti-feat

But they weren't shown using it in Fallout 3, which were the Raider gangs that took out Enclave patrols. For Danse's squad you can hear gunfire in the logs and we have other instances of gunfire taking down someone in PA.

When it comes to Danse surviving the rocket I’m pretty sure there is straight up dialogue saying that he survives the rocket due to his power armor.

Here's his dialogue files. He mentions it if the PC is female, so mistake on my part there. Though the feat is still 9-A.

That's WestTek research facility, the very place that developed Power Armor - of course they would also have developed weapons able to destroy it. That same location contains this research note

Cutting through multiple feet of steel is still a 9-A feat, and those weapons are what easily destroyed a BoS patrol.

As I've said before, PA is good. But not beyond 9-A and the PC's are not comparable to its durability, which still struggles with unrestricted energy weapons and explosives.

Ingram surviving a close nuclear strike that sheered off most of a cliff, and then falling a hundred feet in Power Armor and surviving with only a damaged spine is not a mere 9-A feat

It is, because the explosion did not hit her. It hit the cliff, caused a ridge to collapse, and the fall shattered her back. At best the feat is 9-A, but more likely in the 9-B range. This is also ignoring another fall that outright destroyed a T-60 suit without leg mods.

The only thing you've proven is that the Fallout Universe contains weapons that are powerful enough to damage power armor

None of the guns or convential explosives are shown to be significantly superior to their IRL counterparts, and they all have a good track record against PA or at least examples of it defeating someone in PA.

To reiterate my points: Power Armor is 9-A durability wise and HP scaling is pure gameplay mechanics so it shouldn't be used.

 

[Keeweed]

There is no way the rocket feat is 9-A. I’ve seen multiple calculations placing vaporizing 6 people at 8-C and the rocket feat vaporized 6 robots (it should get higher results, even if it is 9-A it would definitely by vastly higher into the tier). Also the laser rifles can vaporize sentry bots and mirelurk queens and both of those should get 8-C results.

If you truly believe the PA does get wrecked by bullets and falling then why should it be 9-A. A 9-A would also be invincible to those things (not baseline 9-A, but fallout isn’t baseline). So why are they even 9-A? If them scaling to lasers and the rocket (the one that vaporized the robots) are outliers then they should be 9-B at best (which I will fully support if you believe they should be 9-B, but you saying they should be 9-A doesn’t agree with either your or anyone else’s arguments).

Edit: I’m currently read for a quiz. The book is vastly shorter than I thought it would be so I’ll be back in a few hours.

 

[Qawsedf234]

There is no way the rocket feat is 9-A.

The rocket's total energy is like, 8-C, but what Danse is exposed to is 9-A.

. I’ve seen multiple calculations placing vaporizing 6 people at 8-C and the rocket feat vaporized 6 robots (it should get higher results, even if it is 9-A it would definitely by vastly higher into the tier). Also the laser rifles can vaporize sentry bots and mirelurk queens and both of those should get 8-C results

None of them are vaporized. They are incinerated. Vaporizing means there's not even ash left.

If you truly believe the PA does get wrecked by bullets and falling then why should it be 9-A. A 9-A would also be invincible to those things (not baseline 9-A, but fallout isn’t baseline).

Lore wise their armor is specially designed to reflect lasers. Gameplay wise rockets can damage the armor but the people are still capable of moving. Though for all we know it could just be much better at dealing with energy and heat attacks than it is kinetic or concussive attacks.

Either way I think keeping the 9-A rating is fine. Or if not 9-A mention that its 9-A against certain things and not others.

 

[Idazmi]

That was my point with the rocket. Him being in there isn't scripted, just likely considering how the AI targets enemies.

Danse is scripted to be in that room. There is specific dialogue regarding how he survived the rocket, meaning the developers intended for him to be in that room.

But they weren't shown using it in Fallout 3, which were the Raider gangs that took out Enclave patrols. For Danse's squad you can hear gunfire in the logs and we have other instances of gunfire taking down someone in PA.

Fallout 3 mentions that the Brotherhood's Power Armor was effective against tanks during the Battle of Anchorage, and highly resistant to small arms in the same battle, to the point where small arms were simply unable to kill them.

Cutting through multiple feet of steel is still a 9-A feat, and those weapons are what easily destroyed a BoS patrol.

As I've said before, PA is good. But not beyond 9-A and the PC's are not comparable to its durability, which still struggles with unrestricted energy weapons and explosives.

Your argument is that Power Armor is 9-A because it fails to withstand bullets, when the weapons that destroyed Power Armor are cutting through several feet of steel. This is several guns, including a 50 cal, against a block of titanium:



That's not several feet, and 3 feet of steel would be just as hard for a 50 cal to penetrate, if not much harder.

It is, because the explosion did not hit her. It hit the cliff, caused a ridge to collapse, and the fall shattered her back. At best the feat is 9-A, but more likely in the 9-B range. This is also ignoring another fall that outright destroyed a T-60 suit without leg mods.

Nuclear explosions are not small, you goof: the radiation pulse, shockwave, and debris all need to be accounted for in addition to the ensuing uncontrolled hundred foot fall. And again, the T-60 falling feat seems to be skill related, not equipment related, as there was a successful Prydwin-to-ground drop in your provided source.

None of the guns or convential explosives are shown to be significantly superior to their IRL counterparts, and they all have a good track record against PA or at least examples of it defeating someone in PA.

Not they don't. The only source that seems to suggest normal weapons killing Power Armor is Helios One, which conveniently doesn't tell us what weapons were being used. We have a canon statement that T-series Power Armor (T-45, T-51, and T-60) has eye-slits that are proof against 10mm ammo. If the Courier has Power Armor Training, they can call out a Psycho Junkie who claims he took out a Paladin with a 10mm submachinegun to the eye:

The Courier: "You're saying that you killed a Brotherhood of Steel Paladin?"
Ricky: "What's it sound like I'm saying? If I was saying what you said I was saying, then yeah, I said it!"
The Courier: "Please go on. This promises to be entertaining."
Ricky: "I was walking along, minding my own, and up pops one of them Brotherhoods. He yells "Hand over that laser rifle, asshole!" So I hand it over, just to make him think I'm scared! But really I'm not! I never am! Before he knows what hit him, I draw my 11mm machinegun and BAM! BAM! Right through the eyeslit in his helmet! D.O.A.!"
The Courier: "Too bad there's no such thing as an 11mm submachinegun."
Ricky: "[SUCCEEDED] There so is! Or it was a 9mm or a 10, I don't know! Don't care! Said I was good at killing shit up! Never said I was good with numbers!"
The Courier: "What a load of crap. The eyeslits of T-series power armor are bullet-proof!"
Ricky: "Then I guess this dumb ******'s armor musta been... D-series or something! All I know is, he died up real dead when I killed him, okay?"

So, if the eyeslit is proof against 10mm, I don't see why the rest of the armor would get shredded by a 5mm minigun or Assault Rifle fire. The gameplay video I showed you demonstrates otherwise: that Power Armor is proof against such weapons.

To reiterate my points: Power Armor is 9-A durability wise and HP scaling is pure gameplay mechanics so it shouldn't be used.

To reiterate my points, your argument is actually against both lore AND gameplay.

 

[Keeweed]

“The rocket's total energy is like, 8-C, but what Danse is exposed to is 9-A.”

I believe it should be calculated then. Also the laser rifle vaporizing Mirelurk Queens and Sentry Bots.

“None of them were vaporized...”

Our current laser rifle calculation uses vaporization despite the bear being turned to ash. I’ve seen a few calculations that use vaporization despite ash being left, so if that isn’t vaporization I’ll need to downgrade a few verses.

If they scale to the Laser Rifle why bring up them dying to falls and regular bullets then. Either the bullets and falling matter so they are 9-B or it does matter and they could be any tier. You keep saying bullets and falls can kill them, if that is the case they shouldn’t be 9-A, because that would be the outlier (ignoring how the Courier points out that even the eyes are bullet proof on the PA).

Either PA is 9-B or we should start to calc some of the laser rifle feats, either are fine with me (also before you say vaporizing Sentry Bots and other robots is a gameplay thing only, we currently scale laser rifles to vaporizing bears and that is a gameplay only thing so the laser rifle would either be downgraded or upgraded).

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Idazmi and KeeWeed make sense to me.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Fallout 3 mentions that the Brotherhood's Power Armor was effective against tanks during the Battle of Anchorage, and highly resistant to small arms in the same battle, to the point where small arms were simply unable to kill them.

Can you give the source or quote?

Your argument is that Power Armor is 9-A because it fails to withstand bullets, when the weapons that destroyed Power Armor are cutting through several feet of steel.

Cutting through several feat of steel is still a 9-B to 9-A feat. The main shot from a M1 Abrams tank is 9-B+. Getting killed by those weapons still indicates that the armor cannot be more than 9-A.

Nuclear explosions are not small, you goof

From the Fatman and Mininukes they are. Which is what was used against her.

Not they don't. The only source that seems to suggest normal weapons killing Power Armor is Helios One

You overlooked both Raider engagements from Fallout 3, Danse' logs, and the Legion faction ending for the Mojave BoS. They are not able bullet immune, just heavily resistant. Enough gunfire will bring them down.

So, if the eyeslit is proof against 10mm, I don't see why the rest of the armor would get shredded by a 5mm minigun or Assault Rifle fire.

A pistol caliber 10mm packs much less force than a rifle or minigun bullet due to different velocities

Either PA is 9-B or we should start to calc some of the laser rifle feats, either are fine with me (also before you say vaporizing Sentry Bots and other robots is a gameplay thing only, we currently scale laser rifles to vaporizing bears and that is a gameplay only thing so the laser rifle would either be downgraded or upgraded).

Guess you're right. We either scale them to the scripted laser cutscene or lower them to 9-B.

 

[Keeweed]

Doing scripted events only, would downgrade the laser rifle a bit, since it would no longer scale to vaporizing bears, but the rocket ship feat should still be calculated. Even if it isn’t vaporization it should still get decent results. Better than vaporizing a regular human at least.

Though I don’t know how I feel by only using scripted events. I can think of many verses that use purely game events for their feats all the time. Though that’s just how I feel, if people agree with using only scripted events then only the rocket feat from 4 is really note worthy (or at least the only note worthy thing I can think of right now)

On a unrelated note, I need to gather all the power ups from fallout 3 and 4 like I did for the Courier. This time I’ll split natural abilities (skills) and the perks so we don’t have the same problem we had with the Courier.

Edit: What power would the Mesmetron be?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

But you actually can get all the level up perks in Fallout 4. It just takes awhile.

 

[Keeweed]

Oh yeah. Then Fallout 4s won’t be separated. Though Fallout 3 definitely needs separation since you can’t have that many perks at a time (though a lot of the resistance perks are gained so I’m not sure if that should have a note on the page for that)