• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

MASSIVE REVISION for Kratos and the entire verse

Status
Not open for further replies.
Kepekley23

Kepekley23

VS Battles
Retired
15,332
7,563
https://realdeathbattleimp.blogspot.com.br/2017/08/death-analysis-kratos.html?

This guy just proved the GOW gods are Universal+, MFTL and haxed as ****.

Includes:

-WOG confirmation of everything he said

-Statements from the novels and the comics

- Statements and implications from the GOW Ascension Multiplayer

-Statements from the developers confirming the aforementioned sources are canon

- etc.

Some of the juicy stuff:

- The Warriors of Zeus have a move that is stated to be lightspeed.

- WOG states that Pollux and Castor(from GOW Ascension) are faster than this move.

- Kratos is therefore FTL on God of War Ascension, since he is roughly as fast as they are.

- The GOW Earth is at least two times the diameter and three times the mass of the Sun.

- The Underworld is stated to be "immeasurable " in size.

- WOG Cecil Kim confirms the Underworld is an "infinite distance"

- GOW 1 Kratos is as fast as Zeus's thunderbolt, which traveled from the top of Olympus to Egypt in a single instant.

- Hermes is pseudo-omnipresent, since it's his task to deliver the dreams to mortals across the world and bring every soul down to the underworld . And this is how many souls are guided every SECOND.

- Hermes is fast enough to dodge the light of Helios, which is infinitely fast, since it illuminated the infinite Underworld in finite time.

- WOG confirmation of Hermes's speed.

- Athena is as fast as thought.

And HERE comes the universal feats:

- Atlas tanked the explosion that destroyed the World Pillar, which would've destroyed ALL CREATION had Atlas not taken the weight. Proof? Well..1, 2 , 3

-Atlas is the strongest Tita , which includes Hyperion, who has a weapon that is stated to be able to bear the weight of the cosmos . Cosmos.

- Cronos defeated his father, Uranus, who gave life to the universe

- Helios, who is far from being the strongest Olympian, defeats Nyx every morning.

- Nyx CREATED THE GOW UNIVERSE alongside Chaos.

-Zeus is stronger than Cronos.

- Etc.


As you can see, the GOW Universe needs a massive revision. Please read the blog post above and adjust the verses accordingly. There is not much to debate here, since all of this has been confirmed by the developers themselves.
 
??

Your blog only talks about Kratos being 5-B at best.

This infinite distance statement is a hyperbole here, talking about the artistic choices of the image instead of an actual description of the place.

You also shouldn't rely so much on WoG, something often considered unreliable.
 
We deny it if it adds completely new information instead of just correcting already known stuff.

While WoG can be used to get clarification on what was intended to be shown, completely new infos aren't part of the original fictional work.

This is to avoid shit like overeager fanboys basically forcing an author to give them an upgrade-worthy WoG.
 
Kepekley23 said:
WOG is the ultimate authority on the verse. Why should we deny it?
Click to expand...
When there's multiple authors and directors, it's never complete authority.

Demonbane author thinks his characters are 2A and nothing higher.
 
Most of this appears to be hyperbole. A few things, we can calculate the speed of hermes quite easily from the games, he can just about cross that pillar that gets hit by a catapult in GoW, he can run rings around Kratos until hes finally wounded but hes not that quick.


I think the fact that Kratos can beat all these characters through his own modest strength (double digit tons+) and speeds (when launching himself subsonic+) counters the idea they are universal in strength, durability or speed.
 
Shouldn't at least in universe stuff like Athen's speed of thought and Warriors of Zeus light speed be accepted or are those outliers?
 
Hmm i'd say this is a definite upgrade for Kratos and other verse top tiers (tier 5 perhaps) but WOG is disregarded if it adds completely new information rather then simly reaffirming what we already suspected or knew. So we can't upgrade the verses top tiers to Tier 3 (as awesome as it would be). All in all 5-B seems like a good tier to upgrade to but i think we'll need more community input.
 
Okay, let's go thing by thing, this will be long.

Novels are secondary canon, we know this. Comic is canon, we know this. And for the devs saying they try to keep it all consistent I don't think that's true because God of War has a staggering amount of contradictions and retcons.

The God of War Greece is likely much larger than the real world Greece, yes. It has to be to fit all the real places and gigantic mythological locations, and to also fit Olympus which is ridiculously large.

I do admit that the God of War Planet would be huge if we went by that guy's calculations, but did it really only take 4 minutes for Kratos to arrive on Mount Etna? There are clearly some scene cuts in the cutscene of him flying.

Falling from 3 days from the top of Mount Olympus would indeed probably make the GoW World much larger than the real planet, considering that the Underworld is literally beneath the ground.

Hades' underworld isn't infinite in size, or else the planet would be infinite.

Huh, didn't know that Kratos having a magical inventory was canon.

Spartan Kratos:

Spartan Kratos seems to be Building level or so, considering that he killed the giant sea serpent in the whirpool. The arms of death aren't intangible nor abstract.

Huh, didn't know of the feat from the "regular" soldiers had that feat. I guess it makes sense, considering that the Athenian armies could hold off an army of monsters for days.

Firebird fighting is also a good feat, and I suppose he could scale to Icarus, yes. And the Last Spartan is also blatantly superhuman and it would scale to Spartan Kratos.

Is Kratos really creating an air burst around him, tho? Seems hard to tell with the artstyle.

Demigod Kratos:

Okay, this is where it gets messy.

Minotaurs don't pulverize people, they just cause them to explode into blood and guts. That's 9-A or so.

Holy shit, the city-block flipping feat is great. And so is Alecto's tentacles. I wonder what the KE of that would be.

The lamp isn't "Island sized", the island they're standing is tiny. It is still ******* large and weights a lot. The statue should be at least bigger than the Colossus of Rhodes since it was stated to be so gigantic that the builders were unable to finish it.

The problem with the Furies is that it's hard to know what's real and what's illusory. The giant whirpool is definitely real since it's actually pulling down on Kratos and the ships. However, is the rest of it real? When Alecto is defeated the "dimension" fades and they are in her palace agai.

However, the temple of the Furies (Not their dimension) does crumble when she dies. So discovering how big that is would be a good low-end. That should at least be Multi-City Block, but possible more since it's so gigantic (The pillars go all the way to the horizon or so). But it's likely Town level or so, given the size of the full thing.

Going to continue after I return.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Adam Different games and different forms
Universe level+ Kratos was already debunked
Click to expand...
I thought a lot of famous video game characters get stronger and faster throughout their adventure.

Which thread was it debunked in? I want to take a look at it.
 
They do but the proposed upgrades are based heavily off of hyperbole and WoG statements

It was debunked in the above comments
 
Uranus is one of the 3-A Primordials. Cronos(6-A) has been confirmed to have defeated his father. Is this considered inconsistency?
 
What I said about Alecto applies to Tisiphone's "Moon", but the whirpool is real.

The Hydra feat is classic, and it is also really good, should be at least Large Building level. Cyclops built Olympus over time, so while it is very impressive, it's unquantifiable. Basilisk is pretty huge but Hydra is more impressive. The Desert of Lost Souls' winds can reduce a person to bones, yes. I wonder what that would wield.

Kratos vs Aegean is really impressive, I'll admit. Kratos surviving being on the center of the volcanic eruption which sank Atlantis is impressive, but Kratos is the God of War at this point in the story.

Thanatos should at least be as strong as Ares. I wonder if Demeter killing spring across the planet could be quantified. It's certainly really impressive.

Kratos has resistance to Petrification, everyone knows this. Kratos should also have Resistance to Illusions and Mind Manipulation given his feats with the Furies and Persephone.

The falling rocks feat needs to be calced. Would be a lot better than the lowballed speed we have him now.

Okay... Let's talk about the Lightspeed thing.

I think that it is possible for the Essence of Hyperion to make you Lightspeed, specially since Hyperion is a Sun Titan. Castor and Pollux are stronger and faster than the Multiplayer Champions? That's odd to say the least, considering that you can play as Achilles and Perseus in the Multiplayer mode, and they are Greek Heroes much more important than Castor and Pollux.

Kratos should have Resistance to Timeslow and Time Stop seeing as he could endure the Amulet's power. Him countering full-on Time Stop through sheer speed is ludicrous and would make him Infinite in speed, which is obviously not the case.

Kratos being as fast as Zeus' thunderbolt I can definitely believe from God of War 2 onwards. Dunno about God of War 1. I think it's a good time to calc Zeus' feat. The height of Olympus was calced at 13,737,600 meters. Zeus' thunderbolt flew from his throne on the top of Olympus to Egypt where Ares was in an instant. I will use 1 second and 10 seconds.

13,737,600 m/s is Mach 40,051.311953. A 10th of that would be Mach 4,005.311953. And this is just flying from the top of Olympus to the base of the Earth. c = Root of a┬▓ + b┬▓

According to Google Maps, the distance from the real world Mount Olympus to Cairo (Ares was near the Pyramids) is 1,372.99 km or 1,372,990 meters. So even if Zeus fired the bolt from ground level, it would still be 1,372,990 m/s or Mach 4,002.886297. A 10th of that is Mach 400.2886297.

But Zeus didn't fired his thunderbolt diagonally, it flew from both the top of Mount Olympus to the ground and from Olympus to Egypt. Since the God of War Earth is often depicted as flat, I think I can use the Pythagoras Theorem to get the diagonal distance.

Using this calculator with the Mount Olympus height as A and the distance from Olympus to Cairo as B, I get C as 13,806,040.5367 meters. So 13,806,040.5367 m/s or Mach 40,250.84704577259. A 10th of that is Mach 4,025.084704577259.

So Kratos would be Massively Hypersonic+ to Sub-Relativistic by God of War 2, at least.

Continuing...
 
I also feel as though Kratos having a lot of keys makes things complicated. I think his most recent feats aka the strongest feats he accomplished which made him High 6-A and At least High 6-A can stay...because Kratos has gotton stronger.
 
That is NOT what keys mean.....Keys represent the characters from various points in the story....
 
Are you also trying to imply that even if some characters get stronger and stronger through their adventures they'll still keep their weaker feats even if they accomplish stronger feats?

Do you know what a key is?
 
I'm going to have to say no to Kratos matching Hermes in speed in God of War 1. Even by God of War 3 Kratos struggles to keep up with Hermes in speed.

"he has a pseudo-omnipresence, able to deliver every dream to mortals across the world and bring every dead soul down to the underworld."

About this... While this is something Myth Hermes tends to do, as he is the God of Travels including travel between reality and dream and the travel between life and death, GoW Hermes is never depicted as doing any of this.

At best, I would assume that this is something Hermes does passively with his existence, rather than him physically guiding every soul that dies to the underworld.

Atropos flying from the Isle of Creation to Olympus with "infinite speed" is also nonsense, but she did reach it very quickly. Another speed feat to be calced. The Isle of Creation is said to be "At the edge of the world". The equatorial circumference of the Earth is 40,075 km, so I think half of that would be a good distance to use.

So 20,037,500 meters. Crossing that distance in 1 second would be Mach 58,418.367347. In 10 seconds it would be Mach 5,841.8367347. Yet another MHS+ to Sub-Relativistic casual feat.

Clotho spinning the threads of life isn't a speed feat.

I would really like to see a video of Hermes dodging a Solar Flare from Helios' head. That would be an explicit FTL feat and I would be willing to accept it.

Yes, the God of War Novelization rationalizes Kratos upgrading himself as him draining the life of every enemy he kills. It's a neat ability, and he can kill intangibles and spirits with the Blades.

Kratos can accelerate and rewind time on specific targets and can time-stop in combat. This is really haxed and I dunno if it is in his profile.

I dunno if Kratos punching the chains which imprison Atlas can be quantifiable. It's really impressive, tho.

The World Pillar is capable of supporting the weight of the Planet and Persephone greatly damaged it upon death. I dunno how to quantify that but it's impressive too. All creation in this context means Planet.

Poseidon shaking the world by raising his hand is really impressive. Probably 6-C or High 6-C and it would scale to all the major Olympians do to how casual it is.

Ah, yes. Ares creating a dimension. The hilarious thing about it is that it contains both stars and a galaxy I think, and it is actually confirmed that Ares created it in-game, I think. I consider it a major outlier, tho.

Helios literally banishing the Primordial Nyx? I really don't know.

Hyperion's spear bearing the weight of the Cosmos is hard to quantify? It would at least be the weight of the atmosphere, or the weight of the Planet. It being the weight of the universe is outlierish. Regardless, it clearly seems to be a mental illusion in the game.

The Ice of Poseidon doesn't have the power of Typhon, but the power of a typhoon.

The Light of Dawn could be considered to be real light since it is a power bestowed by Eos, the Goddess of the Dawn.

Someone please calculate this feat. The book literally gives you all the info you need.

Kratos can fire Zeus' Thunderbolt in GoW 1, and Ares can react to it. Another MHS+ at least.

Kratos doesn't get stronger the angrier he gets, he's not the Hulk. It's just a general trope that characters are stronger when they are bloodlust / enraged. This applies to Kratos.

My god, Kratos cannot break the Laws of Physics. The statement is clearly just a joke at the fact that double-jumps are physically impossible.

Erynys isn't the abstract personification of pain and evil. Gaia is just being poetic. And Kratos didn't regenerate from the gaping hole in his chest, that was Gaia's doing.
 
3-A God Tiers look fine, but 3-A Kratos would only qualify with "Hope" which stomp Zeus in the end. Athena call it the most powerful weapon in the "World" or Universe"? I forgot. :p He no longer has that power, so EoS Kratos will still be 5-B the other are outliers.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The falling rocks feat needs to be calced. Would be a lot better than the lowballed speed we have him now.
Click to expand...
Which ones? I have seen a calc for the ones where he chases Caster and pollox.


Matthew Schroeder said:
Using this calculator with the Mount Olympus height as A and the distance from Olympus to Cairo as B, I get C as 13,806,040.5367 meters. So 13,806,040.5367 m/s or Mach 40,250.84704577259. A 10th of that is Mach 4,025.084704577259.

So Kratos would be Massively Hypersonic+ to Sub-Relativistic by God of War 2, at least.

Continuing...
Click to expand...


I do not recall Kratos ever dodging the thunder bolt, in actual fact Zeus took an age to charge it up while threatening Gaia and Kratos ended up blasted into the underworld, I cannot recall any other scene. Zeus has a lot of "thunderbolt" class abilities, including the slow moving ball lightning we see him throw at buildings in GoW 2 If I recall.


If Kratos could react/move at hypersonic speeds there is a lot in GoW that would not have tagged him, in fact he should have been able to avoid Athena jumping in front of him and stopping him from killing Zeus, he should have seen her as if in slow motion and just side stepped.


Also as you said, Kratos does not ignore the rules of physics, you know what would happen if a human mass hit the ground with an impulse force of hypersonic speed? They would travel a long way and cause a lot of damage....Kratos' best speed is when he can use his strength to launch himself using the blades of Chaos as a sort of catapult.


Also here we see Hermes; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrzMddB9V-o&t=5m43s

Anyone can have a go at calculating the length of that rope but I can tell you it takes him about 6 seconds to cross it and its not more than a few dozen meters long. It appears to be typical hemp. He does not do a great job at avoiding a catapult being fired at him honestly either.
 
"I do not recall Kratos ever dodging the thunder bolt, in actual fact Zeus took an age to charge it up while threatening Gaia and Kratos ended up blasted into the underworld, I cannot recall any other scene. Zeus has a lot of "thunderbolt" class abilities, including the slow moving ball lightning we see him throw at buildings in GoW 2 If I recall."

You can parry Zeus' Thunderbolt in both God of War 2 and 3 in the Boss fights. That requires MHS+ reactions.

Hermes is pure PIS.

Also all your other points involve you working under the assumption that just because we see it happening, it must be happening in speeds humans can keep up with, rather than the scene being slown down.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
You can parry Zeus' Thunderbolt in both God of War 2 and 3 in the Boss fights. That requires MHS+ reactions.

wn.
Click to expand...
Well which one? How do you determine which is actually fast and dissect it from those that appear slow? And how do we know Kratos is reacting/moving to the thunderbolt and not just to Zeus himself in the same way you could block the bullet of a gun if you react to the person aiming it before its fired. "Hermes is pure PIS.

Also all your other points involve you working under the assumption that just because we see it happening, it must be happening in speeds humans can keep up with, rather than the scene being slown do"

Only that is the only time we see Hermes in the main canon in a way we can gauge him. Beyond hyperbole


Also I am not asuming time frame, there is no "time slow" shown, I mean we could say that about anything coudlnt we, maybe its all slowed down to less than human levels. We see no influence of physics regardless of time to suggest high speeds, we see a hemp rope being crossed and I am sure we see humans moving in a lot of the scenes involving Hermes running.


Pretty sure there is no conclusive information beyond GoW 3 on Hermes, in both cutscenes and outside of combat. He runs the same sort of speed when running down mount Olympus at the beginning. All of which have him much slower.
 
"Well which one? How do you determine which is actually fast and dissect it from those that appear slow"

They are all natural lightning bolts. Appearing slow is irrelevant, and as you can see from the feat in the novel a casual lightning bolt from Zeus is actually faster than real lightning.

" And how do we know Kratos is reacting/moving to the thunderbolt and not just to Zeus himself in the same way you could block the bullet of a gun if you react to the person aiming it before its fired."

Ever played God of War? To parry you need to press the block button just as the projectile / attack is about to hit you. Kratos reacts to Zeus' lightning after it is fired.

"Only that is the only time we see Hermes in the main canon in a way we can gauge him. Beyond hyperbole"

You are so dishonest you ignore Hermes and other Gods in GoW3 have significantly better speed feats. Both Ares and Poseidon dash from the top of Olympus to the halfway point in seconds and the Leviathan scales half of Olympus in seconds. Those are MHS+ feats.

"Also I am not asuming time frame, there is no "time slow" shown, I mean we could say that about anything coudlnt we, maybe its all slowed down to less than human levels"

By this logic no one in fiction is superior to Subsonic unless stated. If you see a character fire a bolt of natural lightning but this lightning is presented as visible and trackable, and another character reacts to it by dodging or blocking the attack, then the logical explanation is that these characters are simply fast enough that a lightning bolt isn't instantaneous to them, and the scene is slowed down else it'd be impossible to watch.
 
God of War Kratos:

Kratos is not Pseudo-Omnipresent. Firstly, it is only saying that after becoming the God of War all wars were under Kratos' control, not that he was literally Omnipresent throughout war. Also, GoW 1's ending shows historical and modern wars implying that Kratos remained as the God of War forever, which was retconned.

Gyges didn't survive the birth of the universe, I don't know where he got that from. But Gyges is Island sized so the Flames of Apollo one-shotting him is an Island level feat.

Zeus was strong enough to wrest supreme control of the universe from his father Cronos, who himself created time, and was strong enough to beat his father Uranus, who created the Universe. Uranus also brought order onto the entire realm of Chaos

Oh no, bby, what are you doing.

First of all, Zeus became the King of the Gods and the ruler of the cosmos, yes, but that doesn't make him Universal. Also... Cronos created time is obviously false since he was born from Gaia and Earth already existed at the time. And he can't simultaneously have created time if Uranus created the universe. Uranus bringing order to Chaos is a Universal feat, but Ascension depicts Chaos as only one among other Primordials punching each other in the opening.

Athena moving at the speed of thought is MHS+ to Sub-Relativistic, not MFTL. Kratos killing David Jaffe is a gag.

I don't think we can assume Kratos has the same powers as Ares simply because he replaced him. But I do give kudos to the cutscene in GoW2 proving that Ares really did create the pocket dimension. However, Kratos as a God of War does have senses which extend across the world as shown in the novel. He can see and feel the war happening in Rhodes from the top of Olympus.

Pandora's Box Kratos:

Kratos shaking a mountain with his voice is a pretty good feat.

Ah, yes. Kratos being outside the control of the Sisters of Fate who weave the fate of both gods and men. I think that this is his most impressive feat in the entire series. He has Resistance to Fate Manipulation, it's crazy. And another feat of Immunity to Time Stop, noice.

Kratos causing Earthquakes with the hammer is impressive.

God of War + Pandora's Box Kratos:

Not much here that isn't already known. However, Cronos beating Uranus is contradicted by Ascension and is an outlier.

Zeus tackled Kratos from Rhodes to the top of Mount Olympus, as seen here and confirmed here. It takes them about 10 seconds to reach the top of Olympus, which as I calculated above, is Mach 4,005.311953. Another MHS+ feat.

Gaia isn't a being outside of time. Time is meaningless to her because she is immortal and billions of years old. However, Gaia stirring and causing the whole Earth to shiver and the continents to crack is really impressive.

Power of Hope Kratos:

The Power of Hope is the most powerful thing in the God of War series sans the Primordials. The Flames of Olympus which protect Pandora's Box, killing anyone who touches it (Even gods like Zeus) pale in comparison to it. This is really impressive. I'll share my own thoughts later.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Ser_Hakim_Dayne
God of War: Kratos Key Addition and Revision + Superhuman Precision for Ares
Replies
9
Views
985
Planck69
Planck69
ChoursDropoff
  • Locked
God Of War ability redux
Replies
31
Views
3K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
LuffyRuffy46307
  • Locked
Kratos Low-God regeneration
Replies
10
Views
1K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Planck69
  • Locked
God of War CRT: Norse Cleanups and Changes
Replies
14
Views
2K
Planck69
Planck69
Planck69
  • Locked
God of War CRT: Additions and Small Changes
Replies
9
Views
777
Planck69
Planck69
Back
Top