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MASSIVE REVISION for Kratos and the entire verse

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"They are all natural lightning bolts. Appearing slow is irrelevant, "


Can you source me the evidence for this? How is them actually being slow irrelevent? Can you prove their all the same? Because I can tell you their not, the one in GoW 3 for instance took ages to charge, looked very different to other versions and blasted Gaia away. The ones your probably talking about in GoW 2's fight are slow moving ball lightning that Zeus can spam relatively quickly.

"Ever played God of War? To parry you need to press the block button just as the projectile / attack is about to hit you. Kratos reacts to Zeus' lightning after it is fired."

How do you know pressing the button is not just initating Kratos blocking after already seeing the bolt charged at him? Its impossible to tell when the player is in control.

"You are so dishonest

I am the only one who has actually shown the speed and caclulated it thus far and my interpretation does not rely on hyperbole, its based on actual shown events in the series.


"Both Ares and Poseidon dash from the top of Olympus to the halfway point in seconds "


I just re-watched the scene. You literally see Hermes slowly running from the top to only a few meters down before the scene cuts off....so again, we only see him running slowly as I expected. Hades does not even run, he jumps off, you can calculate gravity and his likely terminal velocity but I doubt its going to come up hypersonic, not sure anything falls at hypersonic speeds.


"By this logic no one in fiction is superior to Subsonic unless stated."


Not at all, by this logic we go by what is shown. We know when a time slow is in effect because we physically see things moving slowed. Its not even time were worried about alone, if someone runs and is making craters where their running and are launched in the air their acceleration on impact with the ground is high, regarldess of how fast they look.


We see nothing to suggest hermes is any faster than he appears.


"fire a bolt of natural lightning"


How natural the lightning is in each circumstance and whether Zeus "always" fire natural lightning remains to be scene. There are many different forms of lightning in GoW, and in fiction in general. GoW has bolts from the sky, it has bolts charged up, it has slow moving ball lightning and this can all be seen even in real time (with non superhumans) reacting to them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e3nXqMDoN0&t=72m7s

Unless the debris, fire and everything else, including the wind moving Zeus' hair is all moving a lightning/reletavistic speeds that lightning is not natural or as fast as it. Their strength is not all that high either, see in that scene where a stone tower takes some time before Zeus' stomp makes it give? If anything GoW needs a downgrade heavily, its the hyperbole like those stated in that blog that gives it any higher credence but the actual mainline canon in the games shows us quite clearly in many ways their capabilities.


Also, is there any proof that the "last spartan" is anything but a human spartan? He gave Kratos a little bit of a fight. Not much but something.
 
Cronos beating Uranus is stated thrice. Once by the developers, and twice by the guidebooks. Nothing contradicts it.
 
The opening to Ascension has all the Primordials (Uranus included) killing each other to make the universe.

There's no point in which Cronus could have killed him.
 
Lightning isn't slow. Zeus can fire lightning from Olympus to Earth, and Kratos can parry said lightning after it was fired, even in the books he does this.

Poseidon fell much faster than Escape Velocity when he dashed, and so did Ares and Hermes. It is visible to us for the sake of there being a scene, simple.

And what is shown is natural lightning being visible to the characters.

Actually, everything suggests he is much faster.

And there aren't multiple kinds of lightning. Zeus is responsible for storm lightning.

The fact that the Last Spartan made his way through the Temple of the Fates which has numerous superhuman monsters, survived lightning from Zeus which blew up the top of a building, and briefly fought Kratos indicates that he is superhuman.
 
"Lightning isn't slow. Zeus can fire lightning from Olympus to Earth"


He can also throw bolts that take seconds to cross a few dozen meters in that scene I posted. And like literally all the fights with him. The only one that seems fast is the one that actually wrecks both Gaia and kratos....Kratos did not suddenly dash at the speed of light, jump down on Olympus and fight him there and then...


No offence Matthew but it seems your filling in the gaps and flaws in your argument with what you belive to be true. Not what you could ever prove to disregard the actual visual evidence.

"Poseidon fell much faster than Escape Velocity "


How did he fall faster than escape velocity? how is that possible?


"The fact that the Last Spartan made his way through the Temple of the Fates which has numerous superhuman monsters, survived lightning from Zeus which blew up the top of a building, and briefly fought Kratos indicates that he is superhuman."


Right because people cannot survive broken down buildings, there is nothing you can prove he faced that a human could not face. The monsters are mostly flesh and blood, a trained spartan may have just outfought them.
 
"He can also throw bolts that take seconds to cross a few dozen meters in that scene I posted."

His bolts actually fly from the top of Mount Olympus to the Earth in seconds, your argument is irrelevant.

One bolt being faster than the others doesn't mean the other bolts are slow.

"No offence Matthew but it seems your filling in the gaps and flaws in your argument with what you belive to be true. Not what you could ever prove to disregard the actual visual evidence."

The only one disregarding evidence is you. There are numerous MHS+ feats in God of War.

  • Zeus' thunderbolt going from the top of Mount Olympus to Egypt in seconds.
  • Athena flying from the top of Mount Olympus to the Earth in seconds
  • Atropos flying from the edge of the world to the top of Mount Olympus in seconds
  • Zeus tackling Kratos from Earth to the top of Mount Olympus in seconds
  • Leviathan climbing half of Olympus in seconds
  • Poseidon dashing and falling down half of Olympus in seconds
  • Hermes running down half of Olympus in seconds
Nevermind the statement that the Champions of Zeus are granted the power to move at Lightspeed, and weakened Hermes dodging sunlight.

At this point you're just in denial because you are unable to comprehend the basic idea that in fiction Speed =/= Apparent Speed.

"How did he fall faster than escape velocity? how is that possible?"

Because he dashed.

"Right because people cannot survive broken down buildings, there is nothing you can prove he faced that a human could not face. The monsters are mostly flesh and blood, a trained spartan may have just outfought them."

Except I can. Regular monsters such as Minotaurs can reduce humans to bloody mists with their attacks, while other monsters can slice people in half with one attack. Cyclops can break through walls, etc. Monsters in God of War are blatantly superhuman.

And so is the Last Spartan, since he survived being hit with lightning from Zeus which blew up the top of a building and made his way through the Isle of Creation which is filled with monsters.
 
Just so you know, the primordial whose arm is ripped off in the intro is not Uranus, it's Ourea, the Primordial of Mountains. It doesn't contradict anything.

Uranus also brought order to the realm of Chaos. This likely goes hand-in-hand with him being possibly the only survivor of the Primordial War alongside Nyx, Morpheus and Thanatos.

Speaking of Nyx: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-aJyHnTycU

Need i say more?

It's also likely that Thanatos is the most powerful Primordial, since he's stronger than Ares, a top 6 olympian.
 
No it is not.

It's Uranus.

The Primordials who appear in the Intro are Uranus, Ourea, Ceto and Chaos . The one who explodes into stars is Uranus. Him bringing order to Chaos is stated in the secondary canon Novelization.

Morpheus and Thanatos clearly aren't as strong as the Ascension Primordials.

In Mythology, Nyx is much stronger than Zeus. Helios "banishes" Nyx in the sense that he brings the day, but Helios doesn't do that by confronting Nyx physically.
 
"One bolt being faster than the others doesn't mean the other bolts are slow."


This is just the other side of the coin of the argument, your claim is all the bolts are as fast as the fastest, mine is that one being fast does not prove the others are. Your making a hasty generlisation by stating all are as fast just because you can prove one was. And I have proven visually that they are not the same.

"The only one disregarding evidence is you"


Is that so? The guy who is actually posting the evidence that proves the point is the one "ignoring" it while your saying none of it matters because you think otherwise? hm, does not sound right does it...

"Zeus tackling Kratos from Earth to the top of Mount Olympus in seconds"


Are you talking about him tackling Kratos from earth to the top of sacrifice peak? Not olympus in GoW 2?


This is the only one on that list that I have not debunked/have no issue with. I will give you for arguments sake the one he fired at Ares was perhaps the speed of real lightning.

"At this point you're just in denial because you are unable to comprehend the basic idea that in fiction Speed =/= Apparent Speed."


This whole argument makes no sense at all and is a huge generlisation fallacy. "all of fiction" cannot be generlised under "what we see does not count". If there was a slow down present, sure, if there was a statement sure, if we have physical evidence their applying high forces/moving large distances over time then sure....but just assuming is not going to work


"Except I can. Regular monsters such as Minotaurs can reduce humans to bloody mists with their attacks, while other monsters can slice people in half with one attack. Cyclops can break through walls, etc. Monsters in God of War are blatantly superhuman."


Ok? So maybe he avoided them through stealth? OR, maybe he did not get hit and used tactics. This is as useless as me saying a normal Spartan soldier could not hope to defeat another normal Spartan soldier just because either could kill the other. Your presumption being that just because the monsters are strong there is no way he could have got through without being superhuman requires so many assumptions that you may as well snap Occams razor.
 
I was the one who posted that link here, actually. And we don't know if Uranus actually explodes into stars; the camera is too awkward to actually determine that. Morpheus managed to take over Olympus literally minutes after Helios was kidnapped by Atlas.

Thanatos is feared by the gods themselves. Assuming this doesn't include the Three King Brothers, it still makes him far stronger than Helios, Athena, Ares, Artemis and Apollo. All of whom are extremely powerful.

God of War = \ = Mythology. That should be blindingly obvious by now. Chaos was actually punched by a Mountain God in GOW for chrissakes.

A valid interpretation, i guess.

I'm calc'ing the "hundreds of feet deep and wide" feat for you. I'll be back soon.
 
"your claim is all the bolts are as fast as the fastest, mine is that one being fast does not prove the others are"

No son, a casual thunderbolt done by a casual Zeus who are sitting down is quantifiably faster than real-life Thunderbolts. His most charged and powerful Bolt is likely to be even faster. It doesn't mean that the other Lightning is slow, just that that one is faster.

"Is that so? The guy who is actually posting the evidence that proves the point is the one "ignoring" it while your saying none of it matters because you think otherwise? hm, does not sound right does it..."

I legit wasted hours going through the entire blog and analyzing every feat in it and also took the time to calculate speed feats.

"Are you talking about him tackling Kratos from earth to the top of sacrifice peak? Not olympus in GoW 2?"

The sacrifice peak is at the top of Mount Olympus, as stated in the scan.

"This is the only one on that list that I have not debunked/have no issue with"

You haven't debunked a single thing.

"I will give you for arguments sake the one he fired at Ares was perhaps the speed of real lightning."

It's faster. Stop ignoring the math.

"This whole argument makes no sense at all and is a huge generlisation fallacy."

Grammar. Also, it's not a fallacy. It's the simple fact that super-fast characters in fiction have to have their fights slowed down for the audience or else we'd be unable to watch them.

"but just assuming is not going to work"

I'm not assuming, I have the evidence. Several calcs which show that the God of War Characters are Massively Hypersonic+ at a minimum + the fact that Zeus is the God of Lightning directly responsible for thunderstorms happening + The fact that his lightning is visible to Kratos who is capable of dodging / parrying it all points out to the fact that the characters are super-fast and their fights are slowed down for the player.

"Ok? So maybe he avoided them through stealth? OR, maybe he did not get hit and used tactics."

Headcanon.

"This is as useless as me saying a normal Spartan soldier could not hope to defeat another normal Spartan soldier just because either could kill the other."

What, no.

Also, normal soldiers in God of War are blatantly superhuman. The armies of Athens held of Ares' armies of monsters for over a week.

"Your presumption being that just because the monsters are strong there is no way he could have got through without being superhuman"

There isn't. Even the weakest God of War monsters, the undead soldiers, are stated to be superhuman in strength and speed.

And we know that the Last Spartan is superhuman because of his feat of surviving lightning from Zeus which blew up the top of a building. You keep ignoring this.
 
"I was the one who posted that link here, actually. And we don't know if Uranus actually explodes into stars; the camera is too awkward to actually determine that."

Actually, we know. The narration states that the death of the Primordials shaped the Earth. Like when Oreas dies mountains emerge and when Ceto dies the oceans emerge. Uranus dying and the stars emerging is just appropriated.

"Morpheus managed to take over Olympus literally minutes after Helios was kidnapped by Atlas."

By putting everyone to sleep. If he was Universal he wouldn't take days to cover the world in darkness.

"God of War = \ = Mythology. That should be blindingly obvious by now. Chaos was actually punched by a Mountain God in GOW for chrissakes."

Doesn't mean you throw everything in mythology out of the window. Never in mythology is Helios / Apollo depicting as laying a smackdown on Nyx to bring the day, and since God of War never states that to be the case I have 0 reason to accept that as true.
 
"The sacrifice peak is at the top of Mount Olympus, as stated in the scan."


Which scan? We can see their speed in the game, they barely clear the buildings, oh and its raining so no, their not going super fast otherwise the rain would be in slow motion.

"You haven't debunked a single thing"


I have but honestly its not hard, your arguments are sort of cut and paste fallacies. Your either generlizing, making an argument from ignorance or just outright assuming while ignoring the mainline canon so its more I do not have to do very much at all.

"Several calcs which show that the God of War Characters are Massively Hypersonic+"


The calcs are based on falty reasoning and hand waving of the actual source material.


"fact that Zeus is the God of Lightning directly responsible for thunderstorms happening"


Perhaps, its just hes also responsibel for forming slow moving ball lightning that he throws that moves slower than real lightning.


"Headcanon."


My friend you are the master of headcanon. You have no idea how he got through and you have invented your own fiction on how superhuman this regular man from sparter is.


"And we know that the Last Spartan is superhuman because of his feat of surviving lightning from Zeus which blew up the top of a building. You keep ignoring this."


People can survive the destruction of buildings, look at any natural disasters where people haev been buried alive in far more rubble than anything we see in that scene. Saying he must be superhuman because he survived the destruction of a building, or nay, even lightning may as well call normal people superhuman by your logic.
 
"Which scan? We can see their speed in the game, they barely clear the buildings, oh and its raining so no, their not going super fast otherwise the rain would be in slow motion."

>Using rain as a legitimate argument. The scan is in my posts above, they reach the top of mount Olympus in seconds.

"I have but honestly its not hard, your arguments are sort of cut and paste fallacies."

Haven't used a single fallacy.

"Your either generlizing, making an argument from ignorance or just outright assuming while ignoring the mainline canon so its more I do not have to do very much at all."

Nope, I'm not generalizing, just having common sense, and how can I ignore main canon if half the feats are from main canon?

"The calcs are based on falty reasoning and hand waving of the actual source material."

How can I handwave the source material if the calcs are based on the source material?

"Perhaps, its just hes also responsibel for forming slow moving ball lightning that he throws that moves slower than real lightning."

You have yet to prove it moves slower than real lightning when Zeus' lightning is quantifiably faster than real-life lightning.

"My friend you are the master of headcanon. You have no idea how he got through and you have invented your own fiction on how superhuman this regular man from sparter is."

I literally proved before that regular soldiers in God of War are superhuman. I explained it in my posts.

"People can survive the destruction of buildings, look at any natural disasters where people haev been buried alive in far more rubble than anything we see in that scene. Saying he must be superhuman because he survived the destruction of a building, or nay, even lightning may as well call normal people superhuman by your logic."

If you had actually bothered to look at the scene you'd see how inane your comparison is. Zeus' lightning in that scene is a bolt larger than the Spartan, which hits right in his face and shatters the construction around him. Real-life lightning doesn't blow up your house if it falls on it. A normal person wouldn't have survived it.
 
That's a really faulty argument, VoidReaper. Not only did the Last Spartan survive the blast, but he also literally tanked it. He got back on his feet and grabbed his sword in a matter of minutes. People who survive the destruction of buildings need to be rushed to the hospital as soon as they are recovered.

Two random Spartans from Kratos's army pulled down a 20m statue in about five seconds, which is superhuman. There's no doubt about it.

"The calcs are based on falty reasoning and hand waving of the actual source material."

Funny that you say this, considering the source material states the Warriors of Zeus can move at lightspeed in short bursts, and WOG has confirmed that Zeus is far faster.
 
"Using rain as a legitimate argument. "

Ah another hand wave again ho ho ho

"The scan is in my posts above,"

Which one? I scrolled up, cannot see it.


"Real-life lightning doesn't blow up your house if it falls on it. "


Real life lightning does not move slowly as a ball from A to B, it appears as a beam from the clouds to the ground. as its an electrical charge. This likely explains why those bolts are so differnt, their mystically summoned bolts that are more destructive but in return slower.


"He got back on his feet and grabbed his sword in a matter of minutes."


Only hes more than a bit of a mess and the force launches him only meters away. Hell when Kratos find him he still appears to be wearing his regular Spartan armour which should be pretty useless if hes nearly as super as you claim. Not only that, he gets thrown and knocked down helpless under a small pile of rubble. All looks human to me.


"Two random Spartans from Kratos's army pulled down a 20m statue in about five seconds, which is superhuman. There's no doubt about it."


Lets see, the weiught of the statue for example, how strong the actual pedestal/what its attached to is etc.

"source material states the Warriors of Zeus can move at lightspeed in short bursts"


Hyperbole my friend. You know what would happen if something hit the universal speed limit of lightspeed? The answer is not a little flash of light and a slow charge like we see from them enemies in the game.
 
I completely agree with @Matthew Schroeder here; while Planet level Kratos might be reasonable, anything higher than that seems wanked. Additionally, iirc, the observable universe according to Greek Mythology is pretty much the Earth, Sun, and Moon; and the Sun was originally thought to be much smaller than the Earth back then.
 
You know what would happen if the moon was destroyed? The Earth would be adversely affected, and things such as cities being wiped out off the map would follow.

Yet none of that happens on DBZ after Piccolo busts the damn thing.

YKY? Because it's fiction, and fiction does whatever it wants.

Same with GOW.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Now you are literally saying that no character can be Lightspeed.
Click to expand...


Not without heavy pointers by the events. Basic mooks in GoW being able to move at the universal speed limit when Hermes himself moves at about supersonic speeds tops does not add up. It simply does not. They would be able to destroy the Gods all because of one line of hyperbole and no visual evidence to prove they are that fast.


Lumbering Kratos plodding around is going to have his hands full with a supersonic opponent,let alone a lightspeed one.
 
"universal speed limit"

Welcome to fiction, where that is literally almost never the case.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Hermes is so Supersonic that he dodges the Solar Flares from Helios' Head, apparently.
Click to expand...


In game, potentially as part of a mechanic. Hes so faster than light he takes 6 seconds to cross a 10-100 meter hemp rope, gets wrecked by catapults and is apparently subsonic in every showing unless we assume hes just really fast because hes been slowed down (but nothing else has).....
 
He does, i just can't find the GIF of him doing so anymore.

Also, here is the calc for this feat: http://i.imgur.com/xY3PFaD.png

According to Scientific American, it takes about 3 gigajoules of energy to vaporize an average adult, healthy human being. Let's assume the Cyclops were vaporized, since the writing says they were burned so thoroughly there was not even smoke anymore.

Let's also assume the 100 feet deep and "almost 100 feet" wide pit that opened between them was the range of Kratos's blast.

A gigajoule is roughly 1/4 of a explosive ton, or more specifically 0.239 tons. So 3 gigajoules would be 0.717 tons of TNT.

So 0.717 tons to vaporize a normal human. This will be a big lowball, since the monsters are all much taller and durable than even the most athletic humans, as proven by the fact that they can give Kratos trouble.

We don't know how many cyclops were there, but considering the fact that there were dozens and dozens of minotaurs fighting Kratos earlier, we can assume a similar number for the Cyclops. Let's say there were roughly 30 cyclopes, 30 wraiths, "several hundred" legionnaries and 40 athenians. That makes 400(which is a really good estimate, considering the fact that Athena mentions Kratos needed to kill at least four hundred monsters in the novels. I don't remember the exact statement, but it's something like that).

So 400 * 3 gigajoules = 1200 GJ, or roughly 286.8 tons = Multi-City Block level just from the blast radius.
 
VoidReaper said:
Matthew Schroeder said:
Hermes is so Supersonic that he dodges the Solar Flares from Helios' Head, apparently.
Click to expand...
In game, potentially as part of a mechanic. Hes so faster than light he takes 6 seconds to cross a 10-100 meter hemp rope, gets wrecked by catapults and is apparently subsonic in every showing unless we assume hes just really fast because hes been slowed down (but nothing else has).....
Click to expand...
He is the only character in the entire game that can dodge that flare. Not to mention, 1 , 2 , 3

Also, the writers have confirmed it's intentional.
 
"Let's assume the Cyclops were vaporized"


Why woudl you assume the high end when you do not really know?


"This will be a big lowball, since the monsters are all much taller and durable than even the most athletic humans, as proven by the fact that they can give Kratos trouble."


If their all flesh and blood then their likely mostly water.


" we can assume a similar number for the Cyclops."


Well sure, we could also assume there was only a few.


"So 400 * 3 gigajoules = 1200 GJ, or roughly 286.8 tons = Multi-City Block level just from the blast radius."


Any citation on it being an actual explosion and that the explosion vaporized them? If I recall psiedons rage is just a blast of lightning and winds so its likely he blasted them with enough voltage to fry them so it may be less of an explosive force and more of a current.


The quote seems loose and the result you get is purely relative/subject to interpretation.
 
"He is the only character in the entire game that can dodge that flare"

Oh sure, he also gets tagged by arrows, Kratos' blows and the scene is not slowed down so if he can "dodge" the flare, it is intentially gameplay mechanics so you cannot use it to slow him down. Hes so slow during that last part of the fight more or less anything Kratos' uses can take him out.

I have yet to see him dodge it yet.


"The text all but states that they were vaporized."


Well like I said, your welcome to your interpretation. I am on the fence on what it really means.
 
Why woudl you assume the high end when you do not really know?

There is nothing to doubt. The text literally says "the corpse was gone, not even smoke was left".

If their all flesh and blood then their likely mostly water.

Please tell me you didn't actually type this.

You're basically saying every single demigod in the game is Average Human in durability, because they're 60% water.

Do you know how stupid that sounds?

Well sure, we could also assume there was only a few.

"hundreds to thousands monsters" "several hundred legionnaries"

Zeus himself asks how many monsters Kratos had killed to Athena. She answers "around four hundred", a little after this feat happens.

And you can see in the top of the text, Kratos saw "hundreds, if not thousands" of monsters busting through a wall.

Assuming there was only a few is literally lowbaling for the sake of making Kratos as weak and pathetic as possible.

Any citation on it being an actual explosion and that the explosion vaporized them? If I recall psiedons rage is just a blast of lightning and winds so its likely he blasted them with enough voltage to fry them so it may be less of an explosive force and more of a current.

"The corpse of the Cyclopes was gone, not even smoke was left - as were the other Cyclopes, all the nearby wraiths, several hundred legionnaries, etc."
 
"You're basically saying every single demigod in the game is Average Human in durability,"


That is not what I said. I said if their mostly water like a human is then they will heat up and burn up quite well since water is water. Durability is not necesserily the same as melting point either. There are correlations but its not exactly the same.

"Assuming there was only a few is literally lowbaling for the sake of making Kratos as weak and pathetic as possible."

This is just subjective. Assuming there was hundreds in the blast radius may be the high end of that however. Consdiering there is so much "high end" being claimed and assumed here, doing so again and again is only going to stack it and make it worse.

Also its questionable whether all of them entities would be as hard as a human to vaporize. For example undead? Wraiths? Arent the latter metaphysical/spiritual and the former mostly bones or zombies?


"You're just unreasonably trying to downplay the series, honestly."


Just pointing out the facts with multiple sources from the main canon. Why are you trying to up-play everything to crazy levels?
 
"Athena herself stated Kratos had killed "around four hundred monsters" in his journey to get through the city."

Right, so how long did the journey take? How much fighting did he do besides that rage? If his total is only "around 400" and he fought for a prolonged time, 400 seems a high end for me just for the rage alone.

"It's not questionable at all."


Well it is because I did so, can you prove the undead are just as hard to vaporize? I mean theres less meat on them to begin with.
 
This is getting ridiculous, and no one is agreeing with what is being claimed halfway down this thread.
 
His total was 400 a little after the vaporizing feat, not after his entire journey. He killed a ton of monsters before he got through the city.

Kratos killed relatively few monsters before this feat, since it happens about 10 pages after he arrives on the entrance of the city. So he killed at least three hundred monsters with this blast.

You're asking me to prove a negative, which i won't.
 
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