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Massive Franklin Richards Revisions ( from Daydreamers and Hickman's Run )

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The_2nd_Existential_Seed

The_2nd_Existential_Seed

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Here is the blog that has all the scans ( still updating ) : https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...tential_Seed/Franklin_Richards_Respect_Thread

As mentioned in my newest blog, I wasn't very keen on the reasons for his Low 2-C tier. Him being a threat to the Mad Celestials requires a far greater degree of power than Low 2-C. And the reasons for Low 2-C because of being an Universal Shaper seemed to me to be more of an classification ( like Beyond Omega , and other things they sad ) rather than the limits of his power . I have seen far better feats of strength from Youngf Franklin and Adult Franklin. Here they are :

Daydreamers : He was directky responsible , for recreating everything in the Nexus of All Realities, which has countless doors . Each of said doors has myriads of possibilities. At bare minimum this should be considered as an 2-A feat for Franklin Richards )

Hickman's Run : The Mad Celestials took a hit from the Ultimate Nullifier with no damage ( The Ultimate Nullifier is at the very least comparable to Multi-Eternity, who ranges from 2-A or High 1-B depending on story. It's impossible to determine why tier, but it could follow under both ) , the Anvil ( which was stated to have killed the Beyonder of their world . Implied to be far stronger than the UN and used as a last resort for the Council of Reeds ) also had no effect on them, Child Franklin stated to be a threat ( when neither the UN or Anvil wasnt anywhere near close to. Wouldn't be a true threat in power if he is Low 2-C ) , Child Franklin affecting them easily & tanking their attacks without using his huge reserves, Galactus w/ Young Franklin's huge energy reserves was tearing apart and dominating said Celestials , Adult Franklin Richards was halting a multiversal collapse, effortlessly dealing with the Celestials without using full power due to having to deal with said collapse , and hinting of Franklin becoming an Multi-Abstract in the future .

All of these hint both Young Franklin and Adult Franklin reaching Multi-Abstract tier by Hickman's Run . Dunno if you guys wanna rate him High 1-B or 2-A. That's up to you.
 
I and Matthew will try to revise the Celestials, Franklin, and other cosmic characters eventually, but not right at this moment.
 
I understand . Sorry if these multitude of high-end feats are well... too much . This is not only a feat that scales to Franklin & the Celestials, but also will give a reason as to how superior the Abstracts are to most in their verse, including Multi-Abstracts . It wasn't to add endless feats, or attempitng to make your job's harder. Think of it as me trying to make your revisions easier to handle via the scans i provide , so you won't have to endless search for high-end feats.
 
Okay.
 
It is probably best to wait, in case you wish to rate them higher than Universe level+ (the Adaptoid once copied Kubik).
 
Marvel frequently refers to universes and realms with different laws of physics (such as being ruled by magic) as "dimensions". Kubik has never remotely demonstrated anywhere near High 1-B level power in practice. The Post-Retcon Beyonder, who was almost equal to Kubik, only created a single universe by expending its entire power.
 
The Beyonder was able to put up a fight against Kubik. The difference was not remotely several orders of infinity.

In another comicbook Kubik and Kosmos were ascending to greater size, and their upper limit was shown to be 4-Dimensional.

When talking about the Celestials, all that they stated was that they were practically the lowest beings with infinite power on the totem pole, with the Celestials several orders of infinity above them.

The cosmic cubes have never remotely demonstrated infinite-dimensional degrees of power. As such, the Adaptoid's statement should either be taken as unproven extremely contradicted hyperbole, or as the standard different types of physics type of universe designation.

We also cannot rate every single Marvel cosmic character as High 1-B, due to being more powerful than cosmic cubes. It would create an enormous mess of contradictions and extreme exaggerations. As such, I would appreciate if you immediately and permanently drop the subject.
 
Okay. Maybe i did go a little overboard there. Yeah, i did. I apologize.

Back on topic : Child FR & Adult FR in Hickman's Run scales to the UN . This is what my original reason was for 2-A. Did you guys determine a set tier for it yet ?
 
I disagree with Seed's interpretation of the Celestials and Richards. Their best feats are 2-A. Even the Trasnfinite Statement would only go to 2-A given the type of infinity that it is.
 
No problem.
 
2-A.more than likely. However, I would like to mention something just to say it and nothing more . The Starbrand was shown taking on the LT in a head on head fight, and even he couldn't handle it directly. One of the council of reeds the starbrand when he fought the celestials. They were curbed until using the Sol's Anvil. Unless it was retconned ( which it never was. There were two incidents after that the LT grew worried and made sure indirectly that it was taken care of ) , it should be of similar power. Any thoughts ?
 
i couldnt completely understand what you were saying, but if the living tribunal had trouble fighting some guy thats comparable to franklin, then shouldnt franklin be high 1-B as well?
 
The problem is the star brand was consistently a threat to the LT, at least when portrayed when used at its best and never was portrayed any differently at it's best. The reeds presumably can use it to it's best ability due to their abilities to use the Infinity Gauntlet & Ultimate Nullifier to their absolute pinnacle. All of the mentioned items got bodied by the Mad Celestials, including said Star brand, but thought of Child FR as a threat and Adult FR was curbing them. Isn't that a coincidence ?
 
so whats the problem here? i dont know much about marvel but this seems to sort of make sense. the only thing i dont get is how did the star brand get bodied by the mad celestial if it was a threat to LT? isnt LT much much stronger than the mad celestial? seems a bit like an outlier
 
Well even if Franklin and Mad Celestials were hypoteticaly High 1-B they would not be as strong as The Living Tribunal.


Also yes @Apprentice21 the Celestials would get bodied by The Living Tribunal.
 
this seems more like an outlier than. it just doesnt make sense in general. for the mad celestial to body something that is a threat to the living tribunal.
 
Definitely an outlier. Considering that from what we have seen Franklin and the Celestials cap at 2-A.
 
We should wait for now. Matthew and Antvasima will be revising the Marvel profiles so they will come to a desicion eventually.
 
I know about LT. Well... They ( Starbrand ) were stated to be a threat to the Mult-Abstracts on panel ( which isn't all of that considering the IG & Ultimate Nullifier , both which were punked by the Mad Celestials , were to be that as well ) . But like I said before, I am more believing with 2-A than anything higher. Just bringing out everything so everything is considered before the upgrade.

And I am not sure about who. My best guess is either Ant or Matt.
 
If you are talking about the Star Brand from Mark Gruenwald's Quasar run, then it was a major point that the Tribunal and other entities almost always used avatars/manifestation bodies that did not hold anywhere near their full power.
 
Anyway, since Matthew is busy with revising other characters, I do not think that this will lead anywhere for now, and as such, the thread should probably be closed.
 
.. I don't know why your talking about it now. I already backed down. I tend to disregard m-bodies unless they are directly stated otherwise or implied via much lower showings. What about the Creator of the Dimension of Manifestations ? What tier would it be on ..?
 
Well, Gruenwald made a specific plot point from that every time the abstract entities had seemed to be in trouble, it had simply been weak m-bodies. It was first much later that Marvel started to disregard them.
 
I do not know what tier to place the creator of the dimension of manifestations.
 
I am uncertain about Korvac's exact limits. He constantly grew stronger, but he was explicitly no match for either Galactus' Ultimate Nullifier or the Red Skull's cosmic cube.
 
It is probably best to close it.
 
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