Darkstalkers revisions

Anyway, the cast is realitivistic+ despite the fact that Pyro has an MFTL+ travel speed feat where he crosses stars.

Problem, this is not just travel speed.

The feat in question is Pyron who, on his own power, travels the Universe in his ending. This was not something specific that allows him to do this feat, this wasn't a specific ability that isn't combat applicable, he literally just does this on his own power.

So what gives?

Bump

That's not how travel speed distinction works. But I agree anyway.

Though isn't Pyron like>>>>>>everyone but Jedah?

Morrigan is stronger though this seems to differ between mediums.

The real cal howard said:

That's not how travel speed distinction works. But I agree anyway.

Though isn't Pyron like>>>>>>everyone but Jedah?

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Jedah fought Demitri, who fought Morrigan, who's fought basically everyone, so they're at least comparable to one another.

Also, going by feats, it should be Belial>Jedah>Pyron>Rest

They should scale regardless.

I see. I agree, due to the virtue that I think the speed distinction isn't...as common as believed.

I think Matt was planning a thread that would make most of the verse scale to Pyron, both AP and speed.

Why aren't they scaled?

The real cal howard said:

That's not how travel speed distinction works. But I agree anyway.
Though isn't Pyron like>>>>>>everyone but Jedah?

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Not by a long shot.

I can't even find any evidence that Pyron (Non Full-Form) is even a Class A Darkstalkers.

He was canonically killed by a weakened Demitri who was a Class B+, and upon absorbing him Demitri returned to his full-power as a Class A.

Meanwhile both Morrigan and Jedah are Class S.

I was talking about full form, as I didn't have knowledge that there was another before posting that.

His Full-Form is weird. You could argue that when Demitri absorbed Pyron's soul he had to get the power of the full-form, as Pyron's Mortal Form is literally just his soul in a fraction of his full body.

We do have Jedah's feat of using the body of a Class A+ demon to create a 4-A-sized dimension.

Why aren't they scaled to that feat instead of being Dwarf Star?

Because the profiles are old and outdated.

This will become a upgrade right?

Oh noooooooooooooooooo!

Morrigan vs Iron man is a stomp! Noooooooooooooo!

Actually i thinking that Morrigans Tier should have been far higher.

Hence the "it's a stomp"

About Darkstalkers: We should focus only in the main game continuity, so the things from the anime, manga and comics shouls be not considered.

The Relativistic+ speed comes from the anime, but the only speed feat [Apart for the Sub-Relativistic speed for higher classes via being far faster than lower class Massively Hypersonic+ Felicia and Anakaris] in the game seems to be the MFTL+ travel speed one from Pyron, but he was likely in a bigger state when he did so and then shrunk and supressed himself while on earth. In his ending Pyron becomes bigger than a Dwarf Star, but Pyron at this state is superior to his suppressed base form. Huitzil ending speed feat is a non-canon situation because Pyron was defeated on earth by Demitri and not in Hellstorm, which was never mentioned in the canon as it was a stage to rappresent Pyron by the game devs. Jedah at least High 5-A feat is the only one that can be used for the scaling because since it his own doing. Jedah was completely destroyed when he tried to absorb the power of the gate (That energy was too much for him and Ozomu stored it in his castle), when he resurrected he haxed Ozomu and used his castle to open the Majijen, which has countless stars in the background, however the 4-A dimension was controlled, mantained and stabilized by the Shintai [Possibly 3-A], who was going to destroy the universe (Not its space-time as it is not stated) with all the souls and is life-linked to Jedah (Whose death by Morrigan caused the dimension to fall).

Weakened Demitri scales to Suppressed Base Pyron [High 5-A], then he became comparable to Jedah, Lilith and Morrigan [At least High 5-A] after defeating and absorbing a fraction of Suppressed Pyron power, but ended up being haxed by Jedah. Morrigan defeated Jedah and the absorbed Lilith [Going by her arcade story], but we don't know how stronger she became [At least High 5-A, likely higher is fine] even if it was feared by Belial, who scales to Full Power Pyron [Unknown. Likely 3-C for this size] because he stomped Prime Demitri, who is comparable to his Darkstalkers 3 self and is in the God Tiers.

Huitzil (Leader) and Donovan should scale to High 5-A as being strong Darkstalkers, but the Dee and Anita power key forms are non-canon for the game continuity and should not be used. The anime [Which has moments like Morrigan fighting a much lower class John Talbain] has Pyron perform a 5-A Relativistic+ feat, which should not be used for the main game continuity.

Lastly we have Anita, who is 10-C with Unknown powers since she is featless in the game while she used her powers to oneshot or weaken Pyron in other continuities where Jedha High 5-A feat is non-existant and thus not usable in other continuities apart for Main Game one. Her adult form was considered as a threat by Jedha, but we don't know how much her power grow as she is featless in this continuity (There is also Cecil, who is the kid that commands all the Huitzil's and is linked to Anita).

Do you know what this changes?

I disagree with a lot of what Dark649 is saying. We definitely should use manga, anime and comics for Darkstalkers for otherwise we'd have 0 things to gon on. We'd only have two games.

"in the game seems to be the MFTL+ travel speed one from Pyron, but he was likely in a bigger state when he did so and then shrunk and supressed himself while on earth."

Complete speculation, not shown to be the case in either the comic or anime. Also Pyron is made of pure energy so his size hardly matters.

"In his ending Pyron becomes bigger than a Dwarf Star, but Pyron at this state is superior to his suppressed base form"

No he isn't. It's still mortal Pyron.

"Huitzil ending speed feat is a non-canon situation because Pyron was defeated on earth by Demitri and not in Hellstorm, which was never mentioned in the canon as it was a stage to rappresent Pyron by the game devs"

Actually, you're wrong. Hellstorm is still mentioned in canon in the instruction manuals and guidebooks, and if Phobos is built with the technology for Interstellar travel, then it scales. The characters don't get magically millions of times stronger or faster in Darkstalkers, specially since most endings are to some extent canon as they don't even involve defeating the main villain. Like how Felicia or Lei-Lei's endings from I are canon.

And Hellstorm is stated in guidebooks. It's real, not a made-up thing from adaptations.

"however the 4-A dimension was controlled, mantained and stabilized by the Shintai [Possibly 3-A], who was going to destroy the universe (Not its space-time as it is not stated) with all the souls and is life-linked to Jedah (Whose death by Morrigan caused the dimension to fall)"

No, Jedah had complete control over the dimension and was also one with it, just like he already has another starry dimension in his trenchcoat as stated in the guidebooks.

"but the Dee and Anita power key forms are non-canon for the game continuity and should not be used."

No, they are 100% canon. Dee is Donovan's canonical future, he becomes corrupted by his vampirism and turns to evil, and Anita grows to become the most powerful human and the one destined to defeat Jedah, and the only one he truly fears. Dee is a Secret Character, but he is 100% canon and was created as a tease for a third Darkstalkers game that never came.

"The anime [Which has moments like Morrigan fighting a much lower class John Talbain] has Pyron perform a 5-A Relativistic+ feat, which should not be used for the main game continuity."

You do know Morrigan canonically suppresses herself to fight because she's a permanently bored hedonist with no challenge in life? She suppresses herself a lot even when fighting Demitri since she's an S Class and he's a B+ Class in the first game.

Again, the Darkstalkers profiles here are Composite, due to there being so little material otherwise.

"she is featless in the game"

She is feared by Jedah even after he obtains God. And she also kills Dee in his ending. Her having the greatest power locked away is a part of canon.

This is how the scaling will truly go, we will use Darkstalkers Demon Classes.

Class S+

• Belial: At least 3-C (The most powerful demon in the series by far, even when greatly suppressed he is still far above any S-Class Darkstalker)

Class S

• Post-Fusion Morrigan: At least 4-A, likely higher (Superior to Jedah)
• Jedah Dohma: At least 4-A (Completely controls the Majigen, which was destroyed upon his death), likely 3-C (Completely superior to Pyron, whom he recreated and brought to the Majigen, and effortlessly killed in his own ending while in incorporeal spirit)
• Morrigan Aensland: At least 4-A, likely 3-C (Comparable to Jedah Dohma. Killed Pyron with a kiss in her ending)
• Lilith Aensland: At least 4-A, likely 3-C
• Full-Sized Pyron: 3-C by sheer size (There's 0 proof that Pyron would qualify for Class S+, specially since his Mortal Form is only Class A at best)

Class A+

• Ozom: 4-A (His soul was used to create the Majigen)

Class A

• Demitri Aensland: At least High 5-A (Far above Mortal Pyron), likely far higher (Consistently faces against Morrigan, though she likely holds back significantly)
• Mortal Pyron: High 5-A via his own feats

Class B+

• Depowered Demitri: Likely High 5-A (Fought against Pyron and somewhat held his own, though was only victorious duo to his Energy-Absorption abilities)
• Huitzil and Donovan should scale downwards from the Casual Pyron feats.
• Anakaris: 6-B (Can Reality Warp and teleport the country of Egypt across time)
• Rest: ??? (Dunno where they'd fit. Probably Tier 8 - 7 depending on how much the Queen Bee feat wields)

Please note the gigantic Gap between the strongest and weakest Class A and Class B+ respectively before stating that the Class S scaling to Pyron is an outlier.

I agree with Matt.

Same here.

We definitely should use manga, anime and comics for Darkstalkers for otherwise we'd have 0 things to gon on. We'd only have two games

They are enough as most of the other fighting game verses like King of Fighters and Street Fighters only base into the games as they are the main canon.

Complete speculation, not shown to be the case in either the comic or anime. Also Pyron is made of pure energy so his size hardly matters

I base into the games where Pyron become faster and stronger by becoming bigger. Size does matter as we whould have 3-C Demitri which doesn't make sense.

No he isn't. It's still mortal Pyro

Look at the ending, he becomes bigger.

Lie, Hellstorm is still mentioned in canon and if Phobos is built with the technology for Interstellar travel, then it scales. The characters don't get magically millions of times stronger or faster in Darkstalkers, specially since most endings are to some extent canon as they don't even involve defeating the main villain. Like how Felicia or Lei-Lei's endings from I are cano

No one fought in hellstorm in the canon and the other is speculation. Phobos ending involves him defeating Pyron, so it cannot be used.

Completely superior to Pyron, whom he recreated and brought to the Majigen, and effortlessly killed in his own ending while in incorporeal spirit

Jedah did not recreated Pyron in the Darkstalkers 3 canon, he never appeared in the first version and it is never stated that he recreated Pyron nor its 3-C form.

Completely controls the Majigen, which was destroyed upon his death

No, he is only linked to the Shintai, who controls evertyhing.

Killed Pyron with a kiss in her ending

That was mortal Pyron, not its 3-C form.

There's 0 proof that Pyron would qualify for Class S+, specially since his Mortal Form is only Class A at best

It's because mortal Pyron is far far weaker than his 3-C form.

His soul was used to create the Majige

It was manly used him and his castle, which contained the energy of the the gate, which destroyed Jedah.

Fought against Pyron and somewhat held his own, though was only victorious duo to his Energy-Absorption abilities

That never happened in the main canon and it doesn't make sense.

Lastly the Dee thing doesn't make sense either, look in his ending , it says that he defeated the Darkstalkers and that did not happened in the canon, the same for Anita and other situations.

"They are enough as most of the other fighting game verses like King of Fighters and Street Fighters only base into the games as they are the main canon."

No, they're not. We definitely need to use both the Comic and the Anime for assistance in scaling. King of Fighters has over 10 games and canonical side-material, and Street Fighter has over 6 games and canon anime. Meanwhile Darkstalkers has two games with little plot. The Comic and Anime are essential for scaling, which is why the profiles are composite.

"We base into the games where Pyron become faster and stronger by becoming bigger. Size does matter as we whould have 3-C Demitri which doesn't make sense."

Complete False Equivalency.

Pyron has two forms, Mortal and True. His Mortal Form is a sliver of his True Form with his soul within, and all of his feats in the series are in Mortal Form. Pyron is 100% made of Solar Energy and so him being larger or smaller has nothing to do with his power as he can quite easily apply his energy in a variety of ways and unleash devastating concentrated energy beams.

"No one fought in hellstorm in the canon and the other is speculation. Phobos ending involves him defeating Pyron, so it cannot be used."

No, it's speculation to act like the characters grow in power in canon out of nowhere, and Huitzil being capable of intergalactic travel makes sense. His AP doesn't come from him beating Pyron so I dunno why you bring it up.

"Jedah did not recreated Pyron in the Darkstalkers 3 canon, he never appeared in the first version and it is never stated that he recreated Pyron nor its 3-C form."

Jedah recreated Pyron as he summoned all the worthy souls who could be power-sources for the Majigen, and since Pyron is there then Jedah recreated him, and also the 3-C version since they are both with Pyron's soul.

Pyron not being in the first version doesn't matter. That's like saying only the original 2008 version of Street Fighter IV with 16 characters is canon.

"No, he is only linked to the Shintai, who controls evertyhing"

Nope. Jedah controls everything. Shintai is a God Fetus absorbing power, he doesn't control shit and in fact he is only Jedah's tool. Jedah isn't subservient to it but the contrary.

"That was mortal Pyron, not its 3-C form."

We put a character's feats in their AP description, Dark. So since this is a Morrigan feat I'll put it there.

"It's because mortal Pyron is far far weaker than his 3-C form."

No, you can't assume it does, specially since a B+ Darkstalker can go from Tier 8 to High 5-A, and a Class A+ Darkstalker is trillions of times stronger than Class A.

Demitri was a B+ and he measured up to Mortal Pyron and upon absorbing him he became a Class A. Belial is the only S+ in Canon and if Pyron was so much a big deal he would be stated to be such. Hell, he's not even stated to be Class A, so anything further than S is speculation.

Specially since Demitri absorbed Pyron's soul and power, you could also easily make the case that he'd gain Pyron's full power, since it'd make no sense for it to dissipate.

"It was used his castle, which contained the energy of the the gate, which destroyed Jedah."

... No? Jedah took Ozom's soul and stated that it would be the foundation of the Majigen. Where are you getting this distorted information? And the Gate destroying Jedah has nothing to do with this.

"That never happened in the main canon and it doesn't make sense."

Yes it did. Demitri is a vampire and in Darkstalkers vampires absorb energy. He returned to full-power by sucking Pyron's power, something that happens both in-game and in the comic. It makes 100% sense for a Energy-Sucking demon to beat a being made of pure Solar Energy.

Lastly, proof that Donovan killed all the Darkstalkers? Darkstalker = Demon and there's trillions of them in Makai. He could have been corrupted by his constant demon-hunting + vampirism, which makes sense. Specially since that's his Darkstalkers I ending which they could easily have retconned slightly for Vampire Savior.

I'm sorry, Dark 649, but yout seem to be misinformed about Darkstalkers quite a bit.

While I agree with what Matt is saying, I do think you should calm down a bit. "You don't know much about Darkstalkers" is not needed here.

Well, forgive me if it sounds rude, but Dark simply isn't well-informed enough on the series. Specially stating that Majigen was created from the castle when it's plainly stated that it is from Ozom's soul and even the Darkstalkers x Street Fighter crossover comic depicts it as that.

Anyway, edited that out.

Meanwhile I played both games, read the translations from the 90s guidebook, have the translated artbook downloaded, read the comic and watched the anime, and also have the RAW scans for the Vampire Savior prequel manga.

But have you watched the cartoon, Matt?

The one with the stellar 90s animation in which Morrigan looks 60? ovo

Of course that one. Where Morrigan is a villain and Felicia has a southern accent

I really wish someone would translate the Vampire Savior manga. I have the RAWs for all volumes so I could give them to any Scanlator group midly interested in doing it.

The real cal howard said:

Of course that one. Where Morrigan is a villain and Felicia has a southern accent

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Isn't everybody in Darkstalkers bad? I mean Morrigan is a succubas and IIRC killed a man in the novel.

Only "Good" character is Belial

To prove I'm not lying about the Majigen thing.


100 years later, after a century-long sleep, Jedah was revived in Makai. He felt distressed towards the crazed Makai, nobles fighting each other and spilling blood. Instead of anger, he felt pity towards Ozomu, who had betrayed him. Jedah had already made up his mind: His complete revival and the cleansing of all souls. For this, a new stage was necessary; a new dimension, the Majigen.
Jedah arrived at Dohma Castle and saw Ozomu and laid out his hand. Although his powers were not yet completely restored yet, he had enough powers to remove Ozomu. Ozomu had become a spineless gourmet, Jedah quietly whispers, "Ozomu... I am sorry, but please lend me your powers. Your soul would become the foundation of Majige and will help the future of Makai."

Matthew Schroeder said:

Vampire Savior prequel manga.

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It is this one?. Here there is the calc of Pyron casual speed, if you want to use it. Before i was writing too fast without realizing my mistakes.

Matt's suggestions also seem fine to me.

@Dark649

Yes, only the first 5 chapters were translated eons ago, but it actually has 5 volumes. I randomly managed to find the Japanese RAWs in a Russian Torrent site through a likely now-dead link.

I'm still shocked I found it.

So yeah, if anyone knows any Scanlation Group I'd be glad to give them the RAWs.

Well thank you for answering my mistakes, i hope to not bother you again in future threads.

Dark649 said:

Well thank you for answering my mistakes, i hope to not bother you again in future threads.

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Well, forgive me if I was harsh near the end. Didn't want to cause any issues.

Seems like everyone agrees

Gargoyle One said:

Isn't everybody in Darkstalkers bad? I mean Morrigan is a succubas and IIRC killed a man in the novel.

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Only "Good" character is Belial
tbf, Donovan and best girl Hsien-ko are more or less the "good guys" by hunting Darkstalkers and Huitzil becomes a friend to nature and protects a young boy, most of the others - Felicia, Talbain, Rikuo, Anakaris, and Sasquatch are more neutral (Felicia doesn't seem too aware of everything that happens or operates more on wanting to be accepted by humans and even becomes a nun after her acting carrier, Talbain's more focused on controlling his humanity and seems more like a neutral good, Anakaris is definetly in the grey area as he wants to regain his kingdom and Rikuo just wants to restore his spiecies thats practically endangered. Sasquatch... more or less just wants fame from his people). The only real villains I think are Pyron, Lord Raptor, Q-Bee, and Jedah as everyone else is more grey and neutral than flat out evil, even Morrigan more or less needs to kill just to stay alive so its more of a nessicary evil due to her nature.