The Elder Scrolls possible Upgrades and Downgrades.

'(Edit: I'll try to sum it up once again for newer user, since this is so hard to read. I'll list the points separately. The sources for all of this are somewhere below, but after a ton of edits they are badly sorted and a mess. If you can't find something just ask me. Though I should make clear that I believe TES to be ill suited as far as cross fictional battles go as "power" is highly subjective; this is not Marvel or DBZ, nothing is for certain as the Elder Scrolls so aptly show us. There are many parallels between Lovecraft's work and TES, they are kind of the opposite of each other in a way: in the Mythos mortals are nothing on the grand scale, however in TES mortals are in many ways the most important part of the dream, Nirn is the heart of the dream and the most important plane in a sea of meaningless infinities. Moving on swiftly

1) Daedra are described multiple times and by reputable sources (one being a demi-prince, a very high ranking Daedra) as having a "hyperagonal morphology". Originally there was some uncertainty over what this meant, however I linked the real-world maths that uses this and provided links above. Basically, it's used in cohort with magic hypercubes (n-dimensional objects), sources for further reading can be found in the comments below. This is backed up by how the word is used by the game: one source mentions "extra-dimensional" and another mentions how mortals are unable to comprehend daedric morphology and how their mortal mind trys to "impose familiar patterns on entities of inconvenient hyperagonal morphology", which is the case when a lower dimensional being comes across a higher dimensional being. For them to be considered hyperagonal they would have to at least be superior to the typical 4D, none of other sources even matter in this case. Magicka is also described as hyperagonal and mortals are able to train their hyperagonal senses.

-Further explanation of the word hyperagonal. This is an amalgamation of the words "hyper" and "r-agonal". Hyper means greater or above in routine use and in mathematics it is most often used to denote higher dimensions. R-agonals (scroll down for the section on r-agonals) are a subset of the study of space diagonals (basically lines connecting vertices not on the same face... or something) that deals with higher dimensional objects, typically magic hypercubes (higher dimensional cubes). It has quite a niche usage but I managed to find at least one site that does use it in reference to hypercubes (again) here, scroll down it's near the bottom.

2) Mundus seems to have at least 2 temporal dimensions due to how the scrolls behave, according to a servant of the Daedric prince of knowledge and the librarian for Winterhold college. Since space and time dimensions are treated as the same this would make Mundus 5D by itself. Et Ada seems not to be bound by time and Sithis and Anuiel definitely aren't as they exist outside the Aurbis and the Magna Ge occupy a place that is described by one shout in Skyrim as a place beyond space and time. There may be a third temporal dimension: Lyg (an alternate version of Nirn) is said to be located at the same place as Nirn with the only way of accessing it being to move "sideways" in an "unusual" manner, there is some uncertainty over whether this movement is through space or time. I'll elaborate a little further on Lyg below.

(I asked the people on reddit r/maths to interpret the vague descriptions of how time behaves in TES here)

(And here we discussed this on tes lore, but all left more confused than before )

3) Mundus has parallel versions, a well-known one has an alternate Nirn known as Lyg, it's inhabited by creatures known as Grabbers who are described as moving at strange angles (note the plural). It's said to enter Lyg you need to move sideways in an unusual manner. Adjacent planes and movements in non-cardinel directions are also described. Dragon breaks are known to create alternate realities and one, known as the warp in the west, was used by Bethesda to make all 8 of Daggerfall's endings canon. Shadow magic is an entire school of magic that manipulates parallel worlds. All these mentions of strange angles, unusual sideways movements and non-cardinel directions are confusing at first but it becomes pretty clear that such terms are used to denote dimensions when you consider them alongside the fact that parallel realities are a thing in TES. This means that logically Mundus needs to have at least one extra spatial dimension just to be able to describe where these parallel worlds and this is what all these movements refer to. This is a large part of the many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics (almost identical to the multiverse Mundus is described as). Again, this alone is enough to move the gods up to at least high 2-A as they transcend parallel worlds. To conclude: Mundus having parallel worlds (uncertain how many but should be a lot since there is a school of magic built on them) means the mention of unusual movements and strange directions most likely refer to extra spatial dimensions (in the context of this verse I mean), why? Because that is the only way to provide coordinates for WHERE these parallel worlds are. The angles, non-cardinel directions, "sideways" movements all make sense when you consider all of this as a whole.

Sources can be found below.

Three distinct points which are alone capable of moving the Et Ada to high 2-A, taking them together is the reason I suggested the new tier for the Et Ada should be: High 2-A possibly likely higher. It's pretty clear that TES has higher dimensions, definitely 5 at least and very likely more, but since we are never given an explicit number I think the rating I propose is solid. Since Sithis and Anuiel are already rated a tier higher than the Et Ada due to existing on a higher plane (outside the Aurbis) they should logically be moved to at least low 1-C if the Et Ada move up. hell, even if the Et Ada don't get bumped up, Sithis and Anuiel should still be upgraded as they exist above and outside a universal structure that very clearly has five or more dimensions. Also, the et Ada, Sithis and Anuiel should get conceptual immortality as they embody their sphere of influence, along with some form of conceptual manipulation as they are able to change their spheres. Sithis and Anuiel would qualifiy for the upgrade regardless of whether the lesser gods are, since they transcend the Aurbis that has to have more than 5 dimensions

Vivec should have his 2-A likely higher rating changed to (probably) unknown. He is rated as he is right now due mostly in part to the "Trials of Vivec" which is an out of game roleplay that has never been acknowledged by Bethesda and partly because of his sermons which are heavily laden with propaganda and thus not the most reliable when it comes to judging Vivec. Vivec probably is powerful, he seems to have achieved CHIM which may be a great power but we have no way of saying for certain as Bethesda has never made clear what CHIM is. The unknown rating (with CHIM) seems adequate. Talos could also be given an "Unknown with CHIM" rating, he can keep his 2-A or High 2-A if this change goes through as he also mantled Lorkhan.)

This is long, but that mostly cus I've copy-pasted wordy sources. I'm not that sad

I'll start with who I think may need to be downgraded: Vivec. Vivec seems to be placed at 2-A because of CHIM, however I don't think we have any canon sources that explain what CHIM is or how powerful it is. Most of Vivec's supposed feats come from his sermons; the sermons that Vivec wrote himself to basically make himself look good and as a propaganda piece for the Tribunal. Therefore, I think the sermons should be taken with a pinch of salt.

The other reason for his 2-A rating seems to be his victory over Azura; but the source for this (The Trial of Vivec) is out of game roleplay between devs and ex-devs:

"Note: This role-play is done in the Official TES Forum. Some devs and ex-devs participate in the play, and to the fans this event in the play is considered semi-official. But still one must remember that so far there is no official word from Bethsoft regarding this play. "

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/trial-vivec

I believe Vivec's 2-A rating should be replaced with Unknow. Talos keeping his rating seems fine as he mantled Lorkhan.

Now as to the upgrade. I'm thinking that Sithis could be changed to at least low 1-C, as I think we can say with relative certainty that he exists above (at least) 5D; I also think the Et Ada (Daedra, Aedra and Magna Ge) should be changed to High 2-A likely/ possibly higher, due to my belief that we can consider them to be at least 5D with some certainty also. I'll list the reasons below.

Starting with Mundus:

-I'll start with a less than reliable source, but the point made here seems to be backed up by other lore so I added it.

"Grabbers from the Adjacent Place came into the world sideways, the slave talking having disrupted the normal non-cardinal points."

From: http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:36_Lessons_of_Vivec,_Sermon_26

-Even time on Mundus seems to have 2 (edit) dimensions (perhaps the wrong word for it):

"You look to your left, you see one way. You look to your right, you see another. But neither is any harder than the opposite. But the Elder Scrolls... they look left and right in the stream of time. The future and past are as one: Sometimes they even look up. What do they see then? What if they dive in? Then the madness begins."

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Septimus_Signus

This comes from Septimus (Skyrim), he talks strange but keep in mind he was the champion of the Daedric Prince of Knowledge.

-Mundus has parallel universe/ realities and their manipulation makes up an entire school of magic:

"Azra attempted to manipulate his own shadow to such an extent that he would meld all possible versions of himself, crossing over from a singular existence to all the existences in shadow."

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shadow_Magic

- also found this quoted a few times on r/teslore but I could never find a source for it, any help?

"A single Wheel? More like a Telescope that stretches all the way back to the Eye of the Anui-El, with Padomaics innumerable along its infinite walls."

-More mention of movement at strange angles which backs up the part from the sermons about non-cardinel points and sideways movements:

"As Satakal ate itself over and over, the strongest spirits learned to bypass the cycle by moving at strange angles"

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/monomyth-yokudan-satakal-worldski

-Mundus (just the mortal realm) is described as a multiverse here:

"Unbeknownst to all but a few, Nirn has come unmoored from the fabric of the multiverse, as the mortal realm is drawn ever closer to Coldharbour"

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2012/08/lore-introduction/

-One parallel version of Nirn is Lyg, you can only enter it by moving sideways in a non-cardinel direction. Third time this is mentioned. These strange movements at weird angles and in non-cardinel directions can easily be compared to dimensions imo.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Lyg

Mundus is infinite in size and contains planes which are also infinite in size and mass; it also has parallel version. Mundus is surrounded by Oblivion, which sort of makes in "greater" in scope in some ways. Below I'll discuss Oblivion.

-I'll start with one that I've seen on here before but I'd like to add something to it:

"The sea of limitless dimensions contains an endless series of islands"

From: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Rulantaril's_Notes

So yeah, seen this one on here before and it was agreed that dimensions here meant universe, I agree that could be the case however keep in mind that this sentence makes a clear distinction between "dimensions" and "islands", both are described as infinite and they are clearly referring to different things so it is possible that dimensions here is spatial dimensions. Pretty vague and I mostly mention it to add credence to my other points. I have another similar description for Oblivion:

This mentions Oblivion embodies all possibilities (again not sure what this means) and mentions Daedra's hyperagonal morphology and how mortal perception of outward appearances does not apply to the Daedra. I think this very much sounds like spatial dimensions.

Lyranth the Foolkiller says, "Your problem, mortal, is exemplified by your words, 'share a common origin in the planes of Oblivion.' There is nothing 'common' about, between, or across the planes of Oblivion—they are the very definition of change and variation, manifesting all possibilities, and validating all understanding and misunderstanding. You seek similarities where there are only differences, a classification of chaos. You think that, because you perceive a superficial resemblance between the outward appearance of the Nightmare Courser and the Hell Hound, that they must share a 'relationship.' Ever the mortal mind defends itself against the reality of what it cannot comprehend by the pathetic imposition of familiar patterns on entities of inconvenient hyperagonal morphology. Bah. Reflect on the fact that you have failed to understand a single word of my explanation, and burden me with no more such questions."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/e...ers-archive-ranks-and-hierarchy-of-the-daedra


-Daedra are again described as "hyperagonal": this is a made-up word (edit turns out I was wrong, it's a real word but very niche) that seems to imply higher dimensions in the context of its use. I believe the word is used in multiple pieces of lore one of the more prominent is the below:

"Transliminal passage of quickened objects or entities without the persistent agency of hyperagonal media is not possible, and even if possible, would result in instantaneous retromission of the transported referents. Only a transpontine circumpenetration of the limen will result in transits of greater than infinitesimal duration.

Though other hyperagonal media may exist in theory, the only known transliminal artifact capable of sustained transpontine circumpenetration is the sigil stone. A sigil stone is a specimen of pre-Mythic quasi-crystalline morpholith that has been transformed into an extra-dimensional artifact through the arcane inscription of a daedric sigil. Though some common morpholiths like soul gems may be found in nature, the exotic morpholiths used to make sigil stones occur only in pocket voids of Oblivio, and cannot be prospected or harvested without daedric assistance.

Therefore, since both the morpholiths and the daedric sigils required for hyperagonal media cannot be obtained without traffic and commerce with Daedra Lords, it is necessary that a transliminal mechanic cultivate a working knowledge of conjuratio -- though purpose-built enchantments may be substituted if the mechanic has sufficient invocatory skill. Traffic and commerce with Daedra Lords is an esoteric but well-established practice, and lies outside the compass of this treatise."

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Liminal_Bridges

What does Hyperagonal mean:

The word hyperagonal seems to be used in connection to magic hypercubes; these are n-dimensional cubes, so in theory the word can be used to describe both a 4D cube and a infinite dimensions cube. It's certainly a vague term if you are trying to be precise, but still crystal clear for our purposes.

http://www.magichypercubes.com/Encyclopedia/b/BentHyperagonal.html

^Scroll down to see usage of the word hyperagonal and hypercubes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_hypercube

^So we all know what hypercubes are.

Heavily associated with the mathematician John R. Hendricks

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_R._Hendricks



My guess? The Daedra are some sort of higher dimensional cubes ... which is pretty amusing xD

Finally, the infinity of Oblivion with its infinite worlds is surrounded by Aetherius. I could not find much concerning this realm apart from one vague, but powerful, description.

-The Call of Valor shout in Skyrim has this description. Mind you this isn't the words of some in-game character, it's pretty much WOG I think:

The valiant of Sovngarde hear your Voice, and journey beyond space and time to lend aid.

I can't say for sure what this means. Though it could be taken as Aetherius (where Sovngarde probably is) may be beyond time and space. It is very vague and shouldn't be used religiously but it gives support to my other sources.

I'll also copy in my own interpretation of Mundus. This is just because I find it interesting I'm not trying to pass this off as canon or something like that:

Concerning why I think Mundus is 5D or more is due to how Shadow magic and the Elder Scrolls work in TES.

For starters, we know that Mundus (the mortal universe) is some sort of Multiverse according to ESO.

The scrolls remind me of quantum effects. Take this for example: "They simultaneously do not exist, yet always have existed."

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Elder_Scrolls

This has a clear resemblance to Schrödinger's cat

And there is Shadow magic. Shadow magic works by manipulating parallel realities: '"'Azra attempted to manipulate his own shadow to such an extent that he would meld all possible versions of himself, crossing over from a singular existence to all the existences in shadow."

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Shadow_Magic

The type of Multiverse described here is very like the one put forward by Hugh Everett III: his many worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics"

Described here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiverse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretatio

This type of multiverse is thought to be a high dimensional object, possibly up to infinite dimension though not necessarily.

Again, tenuous but interesting imo.

These three realms (Mundus, Oblivion and Aetherius) make up the Aurbis, the TES "universe". Each of these realms can be described as a multiverse of their own. Time in the Aurbis is Aka (the time dragon oversoul) and Space is Lorkhan. The issue here is we still don't have an exact number for how many dimensions make up TES, but with everything I've mentioned above Mundus alone has to be at least 5D and probably higher.

Sithis and everything above him exists OUSTSIDE the Aurbis, above its definition of time and space. It is due to this that I think we can conclude with some certainty that Sithis exists above 5D space at least, probably more. The lower Gods probably do as well. The reason being that "space" in TES is probably a part of Lorkhan like time is a part of Aka (the time dragon over-soul) and since the other Et Ada (Daedra, Aedra and Magna Ge) are not confined by time they probably also not confined by Aka's opposite Lorkhan (space).

Sithis to at least 'low 1-C'

Et Ada to High 2-A likely/ possibly higher

Thoughts?

Edit: Hyperagonal is not a completely made up word I perhaps termed it wrong. It's basically the combination of Hyper (which is used in maths to refer to higher dimenions or generally to "above") and agonal which is described here and has to do with higher dimensional objects like hypercubes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_diagonal

I agree.

I won't read something that big right now.

Can you summarize why the Et Ada are 5D?

"Time alone seems to have up to 4 dimensions on Mundus (just the mortal realm)."

Isn't it 3D?

"You look to your left, you see one way. You look to your right, you see another. But neither is any harder than the opposite. But the Elder Scrolls... they look left and right in the stream of time. The future and past are as one: Sometimes they even look up. What do they see then? What if they dive in? Then the madness begins."

This mentions them looking left, right, up and diving i.

"A description of one of the shouts in Skyrim seems to state that Aetherius is beyond time and space."

I don't think this is enough to go on. It's definitely beyond time, since time, cause and consequence does not even apply to Oblivion unless the Prince wills it onto their realms. But beyond space may be a stretch too far from what little we know.

Left and right are just one dimension? Think of a line.

He mentions left and right (one dimension, think of x axis), up and down (another dimension, think of y axis) and diving in (possibly z axis).

I wasn't even sure if "dimension" was the right word to describe whatever this is because we are talking about time here not space.

I think the same things apply to temporal dimensions as spatial dimensions Shazam. But I could be wrong though.

I'm unsure also. In Maths I believe temporal and spatial dimensions are treated similarly but I don't know how it works in Physics. The reason why I originally said that Mundus may have 4 temporal dimensions is because I classified left and right as two different dimensions, because in our universe time only flows in one direction and we consider that a complete dimension. But after further thought I think you are right and left and right are probably the same dimension.

There is no evidence for Mundus to have 4 temporal dimensions.

Right and left indicate a line which is an one dimensional object.Up and down give us another dimension.

So there are 2 temporal dimensions in Mundus, that is if we accept Septimus' statement which is a bit vague.(Though not necessarily dismissable)

I don't agree with using a made up word to justify any stats upgrades.

Please stop repeatedly quoting each other back and forth. It spams the page, and makes it harder to read.

@Gwynbleiddd Should we highlight this for more input?

Oh my apologies about the quoting, I only saw your message after I had posted my last comment.

No problem.

I do agree with Gwynbleiddd, and value his opinion highly in any regard, but more input wouldn't hurt.

I know my OP is a long read, but I think it would help to read it through properly. I've edited it again to explain what hyperagonal means. I was wrong calling it a made up word, it IS used in maths and the sources concerning it in-game do strongly infer that it means extra-dimensional. I also backed it up with sources concerning non-cardinel movements and strange angles.

The sources Mora mentions are already included in the OP.

Would time being 2D/3D (depending on how you interpret the "dive in" bit of Septimus's quote) in Mundus also put Aka(tosh) at a possible 1-C?

Urag gro-Shub in the College of Winterhold also appears to back up Septimus's claim:

Player: "Who wrote the Elder Scrolls?"

Urag gro-Shub: "It would take a month to explain to you how that very question doesn't even make sense. The Scrolls exist here, with us, but also beyond and beneath. Before and after."

I'm not sure how a world with multiple temporal dimensions would even work. In maths, its easy to treat temporal and spatial dimensions as the same but it seems that is not quite so easy in Physics. We can sort of imagine what higher spatial dimensions would be like since we already inhabit a universe that is 3D + 1D. But when it comes to time we have no reference we are in the position of the 1D creatures from Flatlands. Would living in 2D temporal space mean you could exist in two places at once?


There's an interesting read here:

http://www.askamathematician.com/20...-be-like-with-additional-temporal-dimensions/

Something I'd like to add: The Et Ada existed before the concept of time and space (space at least as mortals understand it) in something known as the Dawn Era.

To sum up my position so far and the state of the discussion. All the sources can be found in my OP or in prior comments.

The upgrades:

Mundus has the basic 4D (3+1) structure that we can all see just by playing the game. I'm arguing that Mundus has at least 5 spatial dimensions and 2 temporal dimensions (would that be 7D?).

My main reasons for this:

-The multiple mentions of movements at 'strange angles and in non'-cardinel directions (for spatial). -Note it's strange angles not strange angle (directions not direction etc), these are plurals. So it's referring to multiple extra-planes of movement, since it's vague I went with it being the minimum possible: 2 extra dimensions.- (Edited in)

-The two sources we have that state that time in Mundus is at least 2D. One source was a servant of the Daedric Prince of Knowledge and the other is a librarian for the Mages College in Skyrim; two reputable sources.

Oblivion surrounds Mundus and is the home of the Daedra.

-The Daedra have been described at least twice, by reliable individuals, as having Hyperagonal Morphologies, which is akin to Extra-dimensional in one of the sources. I made a mistake in classifying "Hyperagonal" as a "made up" term and a fellow user called me out on that; Mora and I went on to explain that the term is not actually made up and is in fact used in mathematics and is also explained to refer to higher dimensions in the in-game source anyway.

-So, for Daedra to be Hyperagonal they should, logically, be above the minimum 5D + 2D that make up Mundus.

Aetherius in turn surrounds Oblivion and is described as a place beyond time and space by an in-game description of vague nature.

I think we can all agree that the Et Ada should be somewhat comparable to each other.

Sithis and his counterpart exist outside the Aurbis, so naturally they should be greater in scope.

What I suggest this could possibly mean for the tiering:

-Et Ada (Aedra, Daedra and Magna Ge) to High 2-A possibly higher.

-Sithis to at least low 1-C

The downgrade:

Well this is much simpler imo. The only reason Vivec seems to be placed at 2-A likely higher is due to out of game sources of questionable canonicity and generally un-reliable in-game sources. I think his 2-A likely higher rating should be changed to Unknown or completely removed.


Anyone interested in giving their thoughts?

Well, I agree about that Vivec seems unreliable based on what you stated.

However, if we count Mundus as having 5 spatial dimensions, wouldn't even regular humans rate as High 2-A? If so, it seems extremely problematic, and incompatible with our system.

I don't think it would apply to mortals. Mortals typically seem to be locked into 4D. The movements at strange angles and non cardinel directions only mentions spirits (beings like the Et Ada),it seems such strange movements are needed to travel to parallel versions of Mundus.

Mortals inability to access higher dimensions is also stated in one of the sources for hyperagonal morphologies when the speaker in question mentions how mortals can only perceive the outward appearance of the daedra and how hyperagonal morphology is incomprehensible to them.

These certainly seem to be concepts beyond most mortals.

I suppose that may be reasonable. I will highlight this thread for more input.

Wouldn't TES mortals being able to physically harm and 'kill' Daedra and the like imply some sort of passive higher dimensional manipulation ability?

Delta3000

Mortals can use Magicka, which is apparently hyperagonal or utilises a hyperagonal sense, so it would make sense that they may be able to harm Daedra.

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/stepping-through-shadows

https://www.imperial-library.info/content/shadow-draining-hypothesis

(There are both ESO material)

Otherwise, killing them with a sword is just the same as a piece of paper cutting you in half (in terms of extra-dimensional space) right?

Well, attempting to harm a higher-dimensional being is futile from a geometric perspective, as all you would do is affect an infinitely small lower-dimensional "slice" of it. However, fiction writers recurrently ignore this.

Alright, makes sense. Also if you're considering upgrading TES, I would only put these things as possibilities, since we don't really know much about space/time in TES and materials surrounding it are usually quite inconsistent or even contradictory to earlier works. Later games could add to them, or completely dismiss them.

As mentioned Magicka is inherently a higher dimensional construct and powerful mages can learn to "sense" and somewhat manipulate higher dimensions; it's often used to travel to different planes or adjacent planes. However, that doesn't make them higher dimensional beings.


Also, Daedra can't be "killed" (their physical form can be destroyed but they reform) and, as far as I am aware, the only time "normal" mortals can harm Daedra is when Daedra manifest on Nirn in avatar forms and I'm only talking about the lesser Daedra here (Dremora) not the Princes.

True they are probably just destroying the bit they can destroy.

The higher dimensional manipulation power might apply to the hero of kevatch since they were given a power up by Talos that let them kill Umaril the unfeathered.

If magicka is a higher dimentional construct then wouldn't mages get higher dimensional manipulation?

Heroes of Prophecy are special in TES. For want of a better word they have a sort of in-game variant of "plot-armor".

Most things in the Aurbis seem to have at least some connection to the Elder Scrolls (as in the Scrolls can predict them to some degree), the same is not true for Heroes.

"Each event is preceded by Prophecy. But without the hero, there is no Event." — Zurin Arctus, the Underking

And the downgrade?

No, I do not think so. It is probably just game mechanics.

I agree with Venom and Gwynn. Mundus does not have 5 spatial dimensions. This person is overthinking vague citations.

Mundus should have four spatial dimensions (containing a series of parallel three-dimensional planes or even timelines) as evident by the existence of Kaplas, Adjacent Planes and the Aedric plane(t)s which are an infinite size of infinite mass. It also likely has two temporal dimensions based on the quotes I have provided above surrounding how the Elder Scrolls move through Time (Aka), certainly one temporal dimension. It is stated to be a multiverse in the ESO lore introduction. So Mundus alone is at least a five-dimensional or six-dimensional multiverse from what we know so far.

This still validates OP's upgrades to my knowledge, or at least that Et'Ada are six-dimensional+

Matthew Schroeder said:

I agree with Venom and Gwynn. Mundus does not have 5 spatial dimensions. This person is overthinking vague citations.

Click to expand...

I also proposed a downgrade, would appreciate a opinion on that too ^^

Gwynn didn't disagree. They said Mundus having 2 temporal dimensions was possible, though they didn't like how the source was vague. They also did not like the use of "made up" words.

I and another user went on to provide another source that also describes time has being multi-dimensional (also a reliable source). If you read the source it is very clearly describing multiple dimensions of time.

^This alone would make Mundus 5D and would be enough to make the Et Ada high 2-A if accepted and Sithis low 1-C

I also addressed the issue with "made-up" words and explained what Hyperagonal means; in maths, it can be used to describe higher dimensions and in the context of the game it is pretty clearly used to denote to higher dimensions in both sources I used for it. This word (Hyperagonal) is used at least 4 times in TES, once by a high ranking Daedra and the other three times by scholars. This gives it credence. Read one excerpt below, it certainly seems to back me up.

"'''because you perceive a superficial resemblance between the outward appearance of the Nightmare Courser and the Hell Hound, that they must share a 'relationship.' Ever the mortal mind defends itself against the reality of what it cannot comprehend by the pathetic imposition of familiar patterns on entities of inconvenient hyperagonal morphology"

Again, even if Mundus is only the typical 3 + 1, for the Daedra to be Hyperagonal they would still need to be 5D at the minimum,

Finally, there is the stuff I described that seems to hint towards Mundus having extra spatial dimensions. This is the vaguest of the lot, that's for sure. If you don't think movements at strange angles or non-cardinel directions are akin to higher dimensions, then what do you think it means instead?


So, I have 3 separate arguments here; each alone is enough to allow the upgrades I propose. If we accept all of them and I wank it somewhat Mundus could be taken as 7D, minimum. But I'm going with the minimalist approach instead, as I don't like the idea of 1-C et Ada given how vague TES lore tends to be.

Again, it's all vague ideas unsuported by the larger lore.