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Asura's Wrath Downgrade

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Matthew_Schroeder

VS Battles
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I know that this topic has been touched on many times in the past, and that it a conclusion was agreed many months ago. However, VBW as a wiki strives to be as accurate and unbiased as possible, and if we as a community continue to display factually inaccurate information, we will be seen as untrustworthy, and our ratings will not be believed.

Currently, we have both Chakravartin and Asura at 3-B.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Chakravarti

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Asura_(Asura's_Wrath)

The reason? Chakravartin towers over galaxies.

Chakravartin2
However, that is cherry-picking information and outright lying. The galaxies that surround Chakravartin are not real galaxies, and there is proof of that.

Chakravartin1
Look at this view, for instance, the camera is positioned from behind the Earth, and yet the galaxies are perfectly visible and definable. Such a view is impossible. The Andromeda Galaxy, the closest galaxy to ours, is but a tiny spec when viewed perfectly from the night's sky.

Chakravartin3
Compare Chakravartin's size to the sun-like thing he is floating atop on. I will come back to that later. Also note how he seems to be surrounded by nebulae.

Chakravartin Laser 0
Chakravartin Laser3
Chakravartin fires energy beams at Asura. Compare its size and width to Chakravartin's own.

Chakravartin Laser
... But note how it its barely thicker than the Earth. If Chakravartin is truly the size of numerous galaxies, the beam would either be immeasurably larger than the Earth, and also swallow the entire Milky Way, or it would be invisible to Chakravartin. Either that or it progressively shrank as it made its way, which isn't what the scene shows. Apply Occam's Razor and answer what is more likely: That the beam did something not shown by the cutscene, or that Chakravartin isn't as large as we are saying it is?

Asura Chakravartin
Anyway, Asura turns into the Planet-Sized Asura the Destroyer.

Chakravartin5
Chakravartin also creates a large planet to hurl at Asura, it is notably comparable to him in size...

Chakravartin6
And it is colossal to the Earth-Sized Asura, so that is consistent with the previously shown energy beam's size.

Chakravartin7
He also creates a blue giant star, which is also comparable to him.

Chakravartin Laser2
Chakravartin Laser4
Chakravartin Laser5
Other examples to the laser beam's size in comparison to Asura. And it is also not larger than the suns Chakravartin creates (Third picture).

Chakravartin Asura
Chakravartin Asura 2
Finally, compare Planet-Sized Asura to Chakravartin him. Both the trail of his flight in the first picture, and Asura himself in the second (View it with fullscreen. See that tiny, barely larger than a pixel white spec the arrow is pointing towards? That's Asura).

Asura is indeed minuscule compared to Chakravartin, but if the later truly was the size of numerous galaxies, such a scene would also make no sense.

Finally, what is Chakravartin's true size? Well, Asura's Wrath: Official Complete Works, the guidebook released by CAPCOM with input from creators Kazuhiro Tsuchiya, Hiroshi Matsuyama and Seiji Shimoda, featuring concept art, interviews, descriptions and the like, explains:

Chakravartin True Size
"Composition made up of Chakravartin's true form (Refer to separate design), the center of the galaxy, the Milky Way is being sucked into the center of the galaxy, stars that can't break apart (for a sense of speed), and stars that can."

That sun-like celestial body with a ring that Chakravartin's standing atop on? That is the center of the Milky Way in Asura Wrath's universe, and he is sucking the entire Milky Way towards him, sitting at it's center. This, coupled with all I have shown, makes it clear that Chakravartin IS NOT the size of multiple galaxies. Rather, he is smaller than a single one, and the galaxies that surround him are not true galaxies, and shouldn't be taken seriously.

You have a single evidence that Chakravartin is 3-B in size:

  • He dwarfs surrounding galaxies.
And all of the following that he is not:

  • Planet-wide energy beams are comparable to his size, even if smaller.
  • A large planet he creates is comparable to his size.
  • A Giant Blue Star he creates is comparable to his size.
  • His energy beams aren't wider than suns.
  • The planet-large Asura is still barely comparable in size to his form, when he should be utterly invisible if Chakravartin were Multi-Galactic in size.
  • The Official Guidebook written by the game creators states his true size, and what was actually going on, and it debunks Multi-Galactic Chakravartin.
As such, the profiles need to be reworked.

Chakravartin's First Form needs to be changed to 4-A / Multi-Solar System level, with the justification being (Was sucking the entire Milky Way towards its center), and his following two forms need to be changed to "At least 4-A".

Asura will have to be changed accordingly as well.
 
Chakravartin creating Planets and such shouldn't be used, since they are created objects and not natural stuff. But the rest is reasonable.

Although....Pretty sure that planet-sized stuff wouldn't be visible to MSS sized stuff at all either.
 
I don't have much of an opinion either way, but there's this other topic I've always been bugged by.

We're using this image from the Official Complete Works for the size of Sakra Devanem Indra Deus to get a Large Star level calc out of it.

However, there are several problems with this.

First, that's not even how big he's supposed to be. That's his intended size that they couldn't implement. Using that is like saying Sora can summon Bahamut, or that XIII-1 Lightning fought Gilgamesh.

Second, we see it compared to the Earth in-game, and it can literally crash into Earth and not make particularly massive destruction out of it.

We should probably use the original calc for it.
 
Chakravartin's actual size is inconsistent throughout the game, but the primary message is clear:

He is not the size of multiple galaxies. In all instances of actual scaling we see that he isn't, with the Planet Sized Asura, his energy beams, the planet and the blue star, and the suns he hurls at Asura. All of those point at Chakravartin being massively smaller than what we rank him as.

As well as the evidence from the guidebook.
 
I'm...not sure anymore.

You have a bunch of argument for Planet-Star sized Chakravartin, but then you use a single guidebook statement to say that he is MSS sized...?
 
He is actually Large Star Sized going by in-game scaling.

I'm going with 4-A not because of size, but of feat: I.E, sucking the Milky Way towards him. There is no Supermassive Black Hole in the center of the Milky Way in the Asura's Wrath Verse.
 
This entire downgrade is silly. If the beam was it's true size Asura and the Earth would be less than a pixel. It's plot-induced-stupidity so Asura and the Earth were visible.
 
@DocAnimeTheory

No?

It's not "Plot Induced Stupidity". That's not even what the term means. Instead, it is evidence after evidence that what we are stating and ranking about Chakravartin is inconsistent both with the in-game size scaling, the developer's intent, and the plot.

You can't say something is "PIS" and "Low-End", or "Inconsistent", or any other Buzzword you'd like simply to remain wanking a character. The rating for the characters is factually incorrect, as I demonstrated, and needs to be changed.
 
This alone was enough to completely convince tbh lol

Let alone additional scalings, characters' fights explicitly taking within what they supposedly dwarf and the authors themselves confirming what's being suggested here.

I am perfectly fine with a downgrade. And if Chakravartin was sucking the galaxy towards him from the center 4-A seems reasonable.
 
DocAnimeTheory said:
Duh it's going to have inconsistencies as a matter of scale you could not show Chakravartin in comparison to Asura.
Dude chill. And this is the fault of the artists. The size is too inconsistent....
 
DocAnimeTheory said:
Duh it's going to have inconsistencies as a matter of scale you could not show Chakravartin in comparison to Asura.
This isn't just an "authors don't know how scaling and math works."

Not only are supposed galaxies completely visible near planet sized objects on multiple occasions, but the guidebook directly says that these two are fighting inside the center of Milky Way.

You can't argue authorial intent here, as the intent is quite explictly for them to not be multi-galaxy sized.
 
If you think someone towers over galaxies but is smaller than the earth, spoiler alert: You're wrong. The earth is just a planet, a solar system is a group of planets and a sun, a galaxy is a group of solar systems
 
And that makes 11 people. :)

Also, lol guys. I'm glad you people found this a good, logical post. Just doing my best for the community.
 
Eh, had a thought that someone was gonna make a thread about this. Though this does come from someone that supported having Chakra and Asura go past Tier 4, i don't really have anything to counter this (not that i care alot cause i don't mind downgrades/upgrades, and this is my opinion, as long as the reasonings for them are reasonable and agreed/supported by others) and i agree with having them downgraded back to 4-A.....pretty ironic i think cause they were like Tier 4, then jumped to Tier 3, then are now being downed to here. (Shrugs)
 
This is all pretty valid with the official statement sealing the deal. I agree with the downgrade being 4-A for Chakra and Asura. Nice research, Matt.
 
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