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Kiritsugu Emiya vs John Constantine

Godzilladude123

Godzilladude123

51
2
JohnvsKiri


It's a battle between two chain-smoking, long coat wearing, friend betraying magicians... EAST VS WEST style!

Kiritsugu Emiya from Fate/Zero vs John Constantine from the DC Universe

Round 1: one month prep but only with standard magic and weapons

Round 2: no preps but only with standard magic and weapons

Round 3: no preps but both have some of their strongest weapons, Kiri will have Avalon while John has the House of Mystery
 
Added another round.

I don't think Kiri is much of a pushover he can manipulate time and has the origin bullet that can negate magical defences.

Current score:

KE: 1

JC: 2
 
Uuuhh, with his time manipulation, he can quite literally blitz. It's not a stomp, John's AP and abilities are pretty OP, but giving it to Kiritsugu here with Double Accel alone. This isn't even counting Origin Bullets, which does extra damage against mages, sooo...
 
Gotta give the first and third round to Conjob. Emiya is smart but not as smart as John who's capable of tricking the Prescence and Spectre.

I agree that Emiya can speedblitz and has machine guns, that's why I give the second round to him. But only slightly. John's can project an illusion that's universe in scale to match that.

Double Accel wouldn't work on the House of Mystery though, since it doesn't exist in space time. John bulldozes Emiya with the House on the third round.
 
Tricks someone that has planned out the fate of everyone in the Multiverse and is also Omniscient.

Ok.

If this is not PIS I won't even be mad, I'd be impressed.
 
Round 1: John takes this fight easily. His prep can put even Batman to shame.

Round 2: Emiya stomps hard. Kiri is a merciless killer on top of having much better speed. John just can't win this round...

Round 3: Don't know.
 
-BANLK- said:
Round 1: John takes this fight easily. His prep can put even Batman to shame.
Round 2: Emiya stomps hard. Kiri is a merciless killer on top of having much better speed. John just can't win this round...

Round 3: Don't know.
Click to expand...
I'll give you some information on Round 3. The Avalon is a weapon that instantly heals all of Kiristsugu's injury, especiall when he uses the Double Accel which weakens him severely.

The House of Mystery on the other hand, is a magical, almost indestructable building that John uses to travel through space time and into dimensions. He can also use as a weapon and everyone that gets inside it (with his permission) are turned and bounded into his minions.
 
I'm gonna give this one to John Constantine. Kiritsugu beats him in speed, but John's been known to create magical circles on the fly that are powerful enough to block the enraged Enchantress or Swamp Thing. These circles as well as the House of Mystery (which exists beyond space and time) can nullify Kiritsugu's double accel. Hell he can just take away Kiritsugu's magic before he can react and be done with it.

In terms of who's more intelligent, I have to give it again to John. Kiritsugu has his nifty pistols and origin bullets that can go right through whatever magical protection, but John can project universe-size illusions to make it hard for Kiritsugu to aim, or basically just instantlyteleport from it.

Not a particualr difficult decision to make but I'm giving this to Constantine 8/10
 
If Kiritsugu is allowed to summon Saber, then John Constantine should be allowed to summon Andrew Bennett, Swamp Thing and the Phantom Stranger. And we'll probably know who's gonna win that round.
 
Well kiritsugu dasent have many ways to actually kill john because he has shown to have the ability to resurect himself after being killed by exiting the afterlife i think john easily takes round 1 and 3 but i dont know about round 2 kiritsugu does stand a chance but i really dont see him winning any of the ather rounds
 
Im not sure people are understanding how Origin Bullets work, if any make contact with John or his magic, Kiritsugu instantly wins. They are too powerful too defend against using physical means, and if they make contact with the body, they cause necrosis and permanent loss to the area, unable to be healed by physical or magical means because they render magic innefective.

And if the bullet comes in contact with any form of magecraft, defensive or offensive, the effect traces itself back to the source of the magic and uterrly destroys it.

How would Jon defend against that? If he uses an illusion, its still magic and will trace back to him. If he uses offense to try and destroy the bullet, same effect. If he uses defensive barrier, same effect. His only chance is to dodge it, and i dont see him being that fast.
 
John can probably just remove the magic and render them normal bullets. And even if Kiritsigu can fire a shot, John's a aim-dodger himself so he can just get out of the way or maybe even teleport.
 
I dont see how John would be able to remove the magic using magic... thats not exactly how it works, his magecraft would need to come in contact with the bullet and thats when it takes effect. The bullets have a part of Kiritsugu's soul.

Magic cant be used against those bullets, that the whole point.
 
John has removed magic from items that were suposedly immune to it i dont think a few bullets are going to be a problem
 
Those bullets aren't magical. They're made from his powdered ribs. They are a Conceptual Weapon manifesting his Origin.
 
Again i dont see how there going to be a problem john has delt with demons and monsters that are immune to magic several times johns magic is just on a level so advanced that eiven demons and ghosts that are normaly not effected by ordinary magical attacks can be easily destroyed by him.

Not only that but eiven if he kills john he can just bring himself back to life by exiting the afterlife.
 
It's not a matter of magic, it's a matter of Concepts. John can't defend against a Conceptual Weapon because it doesn't attack him or his magic, it attacks the very concept of him.

Conceptual Weapons are capable of destroying concepts and laws. No amount of physical or magical interference can do that unless it attacks the concept itself
 
There are many times where he foughta gainst concepts before. He's fought against personifications of concepts such as Fuckpig (embodiment of rape), Angel (white guilt) and Havoc incarnate many times before so a bunch of bullets won't matter much to him. Remember, we're talking about a guy who's created barriers that even the First, Darkseid nor the Spectre (characters that scoff at mere "concepts) have problems trying to get through.

Also, John's got magical and supernatural durability in terms of powers. Not even adding the House of mystery. Kiri only has a few.

And again, yes John can take magic away from people. He did so on Swamp Thing (who is the avatar of plant life), he can do it to Kiri too whatever "concept weapon" he's using (Swamp Thing>Kiri)
 
Elgb333, first, i think your taking one instance completely out of place... i literally looked up like 6 different wikis, aside from this one, detailing John's powers to better understand what he is capable off, and none say he can readily remove an individual's magical abilities, so do provide a link to WHEN he took away this Swamp Thing's abilities so i and the rest can see how and under what conditions he did so, because otherwise were just going to call it an exception, as ive seen a lot of his works and ive never seen him perform this feat against another magician or mage, even in dire situations where it would have been quite necesarry.

Second, fighting conceptial BEINGS is not the same as rendering them useless or powerless, so saying he could fight against the effects of a bullet that acts on magic and nullify its effects is erroneous. You are mixing one concept of another.

Thrid, much of John's Arsenal is meant to fighting demons and specific beings, many spells and incantations are specifically targeted at them, so dont add to this fight an ability aimed at demons or monsters and think it should affect Emiya the same way, and as ScarletFirefly very clearly stated, you cant remove the effect of the Origin Bullets.

Also, coming back from the dead dosent mean John wins, this is a fight to see who kills each other, not what happens after. That being said, i still hand this in favor off Emiya due to how effective he is against Mages, John being one.
 
Hmm. Actually, there ARE links about John's feats mentioned by other people above you. You just have to look up and read.

But if you insist, here are some links: John being able to remove a person's magic for awhile and John prevents Swamp Thing from accessing the Gree . There are tons more in both Vertigo and New 52, but it'll still take me some time to find those scans and It's already past midnight in my country.

And I disagree. Being able to counter conceptual beings is somewhat similar to being able to fight off the effects of conceptual weapons such as the origin bullet. He's faced those kinds of supernatural weapons before, and sure as hell has dealt with bullets before through aimdodging and such (so a one shot Thompson Contender will do little to harm him). Even if John doesn't remove the effects of the origin bullet, he's still a magician of the Fourth Degree powerful enough to block away Darkseid, who's by far more powerful than the effects of the Origin Bullet. Then there's also the supernatural House of Mystery that existed before primordial time which literally means it is "indestructable", which I doubt that an origin bullet can pierce through.

And thinking of your tone. I am not underestimating Emiya, but I do see you are underestimating John a bit.

What you said about John's magic being tailored to fighting demons is BS at best. This is the guy who fought against Sargon the Sorcerer, Mr. E, Spellblinder, Wotan, Nick Necro and even Dr. Fate and Zatanna on a few occasions (in proper random fights I mean, not prep battles). Kiri has fought his share of magicians but they are numbered and far between.

But seriously though Darklarik. I think you need to chill out. You made some good points but its obvious you don't know much about John Constantine besdies what you can search on the net. I'm a big fan of both Kiri and John but it's just my opinion that I lean towards John. It's all just a matter of agree to disagree for now.
 
No coming back from the dead means that if kiritsugu kills john he can just keep resureting himsref over and over again and is something john has done many times in the comics its one of his abilitys so i dont see any way kiritsugu can beat him not only that but john has fought against characters way above Emiyas level and won easily he has been able to defend himsef against attacks way above kiritsugus bullets.

And yes john can remove magical abilitys through curses but it takes a lot of time to do so so i dont think its going to help him alot in this fight
 
Even if John could remove Kerry's magic, he will only take from him the Accel/Stagnate magic. His Origin will still manifest in his 66 bullets because it's not magic. It's something that defines one's existence and it differs from a Magus' affinity. His Origin is "severing and binding". If a bullet hits, his Circuits will overload and will be permanently damaged. John won't do magic ever again.

Fighting and embodiment of rape doesn't mean you're fightining the concept of it. A concept is much more than an embodiment, it's a phenomenon, a law that cannot be changed by whatever means. If for example one of God's concepts is "eternal" that concept can by destroyed by a Conceptual Weapon that "attacks" it.

Anyway, Kerry still has a very clear advantage in speed and with his Accel that will go even higher. John will be at mortal danger even from simple punches let alone firearms and if he tries magical defenses, the Origin Bullet will be waiting. In fact, Kerry has a habit of making his opponents try and defend themselves with magic from his firearms only to shoot right through them with the Contender.
 
Johns magical defences have protected him from attacks from both conseptual beings and demons immune to magic a few bullets arent going to be a problem plus constantine has defended himself against attack from demons that can move a lot faster than humans like kiritsugu also in hand to hand combat john has the advantage in streight i mean he was able to rip a demons spine out of his back with one hand i dont see how those bullets whould effect him sense john has defended himself against way more powerful creatures than kirutsugu and with greater magical resistance.
 
Thanos2003 said:
in hand to hand combat john has the advantage in streight i mean he was able to rip a demons spine out of his back with one hand i dont see how those bullets whould effect him sense john has defended himself against way more powerful creatures than kirutsugu and with greater magical resistance.
Click to expand...
Yeah no. John's Striking Strength is below superhuman while Kerry's Durability is At least Street level. That means John will have to hit him a lot for him to even feel it.

Kerry's striking strength is equal to John's physical durability meaning he will feel the pain from every strike, while firearms will go right through him.

And Kerry isn't a normal human so that argument won't work. John's speed is normal human, while Kerry is in the Supersonic range.
 
Johns physical physical veries from writer to writer while in some stories he is depicted as a weak hand to hand combatent in athers he is shown to be able to keep up demons that can move at superhuman speeds and rip them apart with his bear hands johns physical strengh is very inconsistent probably eiven more than supermans.
 
I'm pretty sure it can affect the origin bullet. John's powerful enough to nullify Swamp Thing and Andrew Bennet's powers, both who are not entirely magic in nature (the Green, arguably is also a manifestation of the existence of plant life). But yes, let's say that John can't remove the effects of the origin bullet. It doesn't mean Kiri will have an automatic win. Those bullets still has to get past the House of Mystery which is primordial and will not be affected by the origin bullets.

I'm not going with the whole concept vs embodiment effect because both universe has their own ways of defining it. In some comics, concept is a rule while a personification can be a represntation of that rule (like the Endless and Eternity from MC). And concept in comics is something that powerful gods and people with loopholes have affected before (hence why there is a thing called "Conceptual Manipulation"). But I'm no new age philosopher, so I'm not an expert in that matter.

I agree that Kiri's strategy of tricking his opponents into using magical barriers, which John is definitely dependent upon, will be patricularly devastating. But you're forgetting that John will also have no trouble dodging a one-shot Thompson Defender. And again, Kiri won't be able to use his double accel when John removes his magic, nor will he able to use it when John is in the presence of the House of Mystery (again, its beyond the concept of time and space). The only thing that Kiri has of dealing with John is through his avalon and origin bullet, but I doubt he'll be successful trying to "kill" a House.
 
Jonh has been able to block attacks from demons and spirits that were very resistant to magic with his magic shields i dont think kiritsugus origin bullets are going to give him that much truble i mean if you look at johns history and you see what he has defended himself from those bullets dont seem that impresive plus eiven if kiritsugu finds i way to kill him john can just resurect himself.
 
This fight is actually awsome

Obviously in any one on one no prep encounter Kiritsugu would probably win.

Honestly inconclusive there are way to many variables to take into consideration in a battle of prep like.

Like for example is it like 1 month and then they are picked up placed into a colosseum with their prep, since normally what I assume would happen is.

-Kiritsugu goes after John and decides to investigate him first over the month John catches wind that a mage is after him and does the same

-Kiritsugu gets a little more info then John does but John does figure out from the Church and Mage Association that Kiritsugu is going to be coming after him as more of a soilder and not a mage

-John prepares with Magic the far more unonventionally then someone like Kayneth preparing magical barriers designed to stop physical attacks and doing odd things like going to different dimensions something Kiritsugu may know about with the prep but be unable to do anything about due to his own short comings as a mage

-Now this would never boil down to a direct encounter Kiritsugu wouldn't let that happen after learning more about the magic John has he would wanna hit him with the Contender or a well placed snipe shot and the essential "stand off" would last a long time and I don't really know who would win, In reality John would most likely get help from beings strong enough to deal with Kiritsugu in a direct encounter and instigate one but that cant happen here since he can't get outside help so im still for inconclusive
 
SaberLily015 said:
This fight is actually awsome
Obviously in any one on one no prep encounter Kiritsugu would probably win.

Honestly inconclusive there are way to many variables to take into consideration in a battle of prep like.

Like for example is it like 1 month and then they are picked up placed into a colosseum with their prep, since normally what I assume would happen is.

-Kiritsugu goes after John and decides to investigate him first over the month John catches wind that a mage is after him and does the same

-Kiritsugu gets a little more info then John does but John does figure out from the Church and Mage Association that Kiritsugu is going to be coming after him as more of a soilder and not a mage

-John prepares with Magic the far more unonventionally then someone like Kayneth preparing magical barriers designed to stop physical attacks and doing odd things like going to different dimensions something Kiritsugu may know about with the prep but be unable to do anything about due to his own short comings as a mage

-Now this would never boil down to a direct encounter Kiritsugu wouldn't let that happen after learning more about the magic John has he would wanna hit him with the Contender or a well placed snipe shot and the essential "stand off" would last a long time and I don't really know who would win, In reality John would most likely get help from beings strong enough to deal with Kiritsugu in a direct encounter and instigate one but that cant happen here since he can't get outside help so im still for inconclusive
Click to expand...
He doesn't need help from anyone to win, he has the turnabout spell which means any damage Kiritsugu inflicts on John will be inflicted right back at him, is fully capable of randomly teleporting, can create protection circles where he cannot be harmed, can freeze people in place like nothing, can phase through attacks, and regularly manipulates people into giving him their power/offering their services. The only threat here is the Origin rounds, and even then John can jam the gun firing them using the Synchronicity Wave.
 
That's the point he cant do much in defense against Origin Rounds with magic because after he defends he stops being capable of magic due to having his magic source destroyed

Isn't Synchronicity Wave just supernatural luck? I mean, that is kind of a cop out and would still be inconclusive since we could just as well say the Contender doesn't jam not only that Kiritsugu also has supernatural luck in the form of Affections of the Holy Grail which is his Personal Skill as a Servant (Which as a Personal Skill is a Skill he had in life as the Kiritsugu Emiya in the match).
 
SaberLily015 said:
That's the point he cant do much in defense against Origin Rounds with magic because after he defends he stops being capable of magic due to having his magic source destroyed
Isn't Synchronicity Wave just supernatural luck? I mean, that is kind of a cop out and would still be inconclusive since we could just as well say the Contender doesn't jam not only that Kiritsugu also has supernatural luck in the form of Affections of the Holy Grail which is his Personal Skill as a Servant (Which as a Personal Skill is a Skill he had in life as the Kiritsugu Emiya in the match).
Click to expand...
But the origin bullets would do nothing when faced with John and the House of Mystery. And John has faced guns before, a one shot pistol wouldn't be a problem to him physically.

And i don't think Sychronicity Wave Travelling is applicable here since this is DC Unvierse John Constantine,not Vertgio John Constantine. But if it is then there's no way that Kiri's supernatural luck can compete with the Synch Travel, seeing taht the latter can even affect god demons like Nergal (as a defense) and comic book characters like Dr. Fate and the Spectre (though not in a damaging kind of way)
 
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