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Hyper Sonic VS Remilia Scarlet (7-0-0) (Concluded)

So what stops Remilia from using lolfate here because from what I've heard, she uses it in character
 
I've heard from Saikou (I think) previously that Remilia's Fate Manip is hardly combat applicable and is likely not a valod wincon.
 
Madotsuki24 said:
Also, what can Remilia do to Sonic's invulnerability?
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What is Sonic's current justification for the ability? Because invulnerability itself is likely to get more requirements to qualify for it. Here people seemed to suggest that the forms are simply stat amping to make Sonic a stone wall and not much else.
 
Attacks from Time Eater, final bosses from Sonic Rush and Solaris do not affect him in Super form, which Hyper form scales and is obviously stronger.
 
Madotsuki24 said:
Attacks from Time Eater, final bosses from Sonic Rush and Solaris do not affect him in Super form, which Hyper form scales and is stronger obviously.
Click to expand...
The argument though is that invulnerability is something that bypasses AP, all we have for Sonic is tanking damage without set principle as to why.

An example of invulnerability would be Alexandria (Worm). As her body is in a type of stasis and interactions with it in-verse required Durability Negation to bypass because of this, as the strongest character could not harm her without these means, and is backed up by Word of God.

Keep in mind that Sonic's AP also currently matches his durability as it is listed, whereas Alexandria is a High 8-C with "At least High 6-A" durability that still required hax against. Sonic is essentially a stone wall for his tier so there's nothing to suggest Remilia can't harm him.
 
His Hyper form gives him invulnerability because it's a transformation that makes you more powerful and the Chaos Emeralds' power that gave you that transformation protects you from harm, that's why. Not all powers have an explanation. Why does Hyper Sonic have immeasurable speed? Why does Hyper Sonic give him at least universe level+ power? Why can Hyper Sonic shoot omnidirectional light beams? If every single power a character has needed an explanation to why they had that power, then the shows and games would take a filler Naruto episodes time to explain everything.
 
Hyper Sonic can still use the wisps against her to bypass her Low Godly (such as violet void)

Also, the explainations for his statistics (classic might be different though since he has different feats than modern)

AP - At least Universe level+ - being far stronger than Low 2-C Super Sonic

Speed - Immesurable(?) (Classic might still be MFTL+) - far faster than Super Sonic, who contended with the Phantom king in an area where the time was constantly changing, meaning that there's no flow of time and time's moving backward and forward randomally

Omnidirectional light beams - Hyper Flash - In S3 & K, when Sonic jumps twice he uses this skill which fills the entire screen with a white flash and kills all badnicks.

Some of Hyper Sonic's powers simply upscale from Super Sonic's skills to a much greater degree
 
Madotsuki24 said:
His Hyper form gives him invulnerability because it's a transformation that makes you more powerful and the Chaos Emeralds' power that gave you that transformation protects you from harm, that's why. Not all powers have an explanation. Why does Hyper Sonic have immeasurable speed? Why does Hyper Sonic give him at least universe level+ power? Why can Hyper Sonic shoot omnidirectional light beams? If every single power a character has needed an explanation to why they had that power, then the shows and games would take a filler Naruto episodes time to explain everything.
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Well, things like that can be properly explained, Hyper Sonic being his tier comes from being superior to Super Sonic who beat Time Eater. There, explained.

The reason we are becoming strict on Invulnerability is because of how it can be treated as an NLF, it should be specified what it protects against and that should be listed on the profile to prevent confusion. I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to make sure things are clear.
 
It's not a NLF if he's resisted universe level+ attacks. But then why does Modern Sonic have that power then? xD


Idk if you aren't familiar with Sonic, or just clueless.
 
Madotsuki24 said:
It's not a NLF if he's resisted universe level+ attacks. But then why does Modern Sonic have that power then? xD


Idk if you aren't familiar with Sonic, or just clueless.
Click to expand...
I said the ability as a whole could be treated as an NLF if not specified, wasn't just talking about Sonic when I said that.

I'd imagine he could resist Low 2-C attacks because he is physically at that tier as well, meaning he doesn't need Invulnerability to do that.

No, I'm not really fond of Sonic, but I wouldn't consider myself clueless.
 
Sonic at the very least can survive attacks much higher than his AP. His invulnerability was basically agreed to make him a stonewall
 
Type 1 only protects against stuff like Grandfather Paradox, not Fate Manipulation. Also, how is it inapplicable? From what I've heard, she staged an entire fight with Sakuya using it.

I don't think Hyper Sonic would really resort to Wisps given he's not ever used them in a form. Best case scenario would be they would be one of his unlikely options.
 
PlozAlcachaz said:
Type 1 only protects against stuff like Grandfather Paradox, not Fate Manipulation. Also, how is it inapplicable? From what I've heard, she staged an entire fight with Sakuya using it.

I don't think Hyper Sonic would really resort to Wisps given he's not ever used them in a form. Best case scenario would be they would be one of his unlikely options.
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Sonic used the wisps a lot in character and he has no reason not to resort to them eventually

Also, I'm still waiting to an explaination of how her fate manip works
 
Don't quote text walls please.

He's used them decently in his Base, that's not even largely true for his Super Form let alone Hyper. I literally said he could use them, but they won't remotely be immediate and would be unlikely.

I think staging a fight your way is a good explanation of it.
 
I didn't ignore it, I literally said I'm rather sure she's used it to completely stage a fight. I'm not sure how that's not an explanation of an ability when it is by definition.
 
Oh, so that's what it meant. You just had strange wording for it. That would be more difficult to answer, since she doesn't seem to have much else to take down Sonic due to his big AP and even bigger durability advantage.

Meanwhile, Sonic has the wisps that he can use eventually, but idk how that would work if she turns the battle to her favor
 
Rimilia can use Fate hax, but it is unknown how to do this, so we can be sure that its use is not in character from her.

The Invulnerability was agreed to be changed to Stone wall, as I remember, which is not considered a sufficient reason to win, and the use of the Wisps in Super or Hyper is not in character from Sonic.

In any case this is the Remilia scaling chain: Remilia >>>> Sakuya > Patchouli >>> Alice>=powerfull Youkais=Baseline
 
Rimilia can transform into a Scarlet mist cloud and spam danmaku to win

I don't think Classic sonic has encountered a Danmaku before
 
Modern Sonic would use Wisps in character, it's just canonicaly he only went super after Colors in Generations, a game without Wisps, on the other hand Classic Sonic wouldn't use Wisps ic, not even in base, and I don't even know if he ever was able to use Violet Void to even have it
 
Madotsuki24 said:
Sonic can also turn Remilia into a ring with transmutation.
Click to expand...
Did he do it for people in his level before or just for Foders?

Also, his profile say that he does this with rings time, so is the rings time a thing that Sonic can do when he wants?
 
Lord JJJ said:
Madotsuki24 said:
Sonic can also turn Remilia into a ring with transmutation.
Click to expand...
Did he do it for people in his level before or just for Foders?
Also, his profile say that he does this with rings time, so is the rings time a thing that Sonic can do when he wants?
Click to expand...
Yes. Also, that's game mechanics and game mechanics are not feats. If Sonic could turn any boss into a ring, then all Sonic games would be so easy that they wouldn't even be worth playing.
 
Sonic being supposedly unable to transmutate bosses is game mechanics, so it's not really a legit point against it
 
Another question is using rings time in super is in character for Sonic and would he be able to do this if Remilia had turned herself into a scarlet mist cloud or a swarm of bats?
 
Yes to the last one, and maybe to the first one? Super form doesn't change his base mentality, but i wouldn't say Ring time is in character or not
 
If the battle streches long enough, both would probably start to use different techniques when they see the usual tactics don't work, so wisps and time rings can work
 
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