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Xenoblade God tiers

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Theglassman12

Theglassman12

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Ok so this has been bugging me for some time. But after looking through the Xenoblade upgrade thread, mostly the god tier upgrades. I do not see why 2-A Xenoblade is a thing when it's based on one vague line that has nothing to do with how large the Xenoblade multiverse is. Fiora's line about there being infinite possibilities based on the choices they make has nothing to do with the multiverse having infinite timelines. It's just her saying that the choices they make to change the future is infinite, that's all the line implies.

Now 2-B I don't mind if the Architect or Zanza is shown to warp those countless/endless worlds on their own. But 2-A I do not see how this is legit unless there's other statements that further implies infinite aside from a line that has nothing to do with the actual scope of the multiverse in the games.
 
It had something to do with Nopon Archsage saying "There exists as many worlds as their are possibilities"; though can't seem to fine the statement. And Infinite possibilities was referring to an infinite number of possible futures to see. Also, the "Endless" statement was pronounced as Mugen in the Japanese dub; which Mugen means infinite. But given the vagueness, we only said possibly. We kind of already have another thread with a long discussion regarding it.

I knot that the "Infinite possibilities" statement alone doesn't mean much but when combined with an existing statement similar to this it does.

And we're saving any possible connections to Xenosaga that's quite prominent in XB2 for later.
 
Infinite possible numbers of future doesn't mean there's infinite universes. Like I said that's nothing to do with how large the Xenoblade multiverse is. It's just a statement on how the future is not set in stone.
 
I mean, there is also the Architect stating in the jp version of Xenoblade 2 that there is infinite instead of Endless. We had already discussed this and came to the conclusion that the possible rating instead of a flat out 2-A rating.
 
I do not have the link rn. Maybe DDM could have it? I'll try to see if I can get it in the morning anyways (if someone didn't already) because it is late, I've been finding evidence for hax to add to giant list that Bware and I have been making and I want to sleep. Before I go however you might find it in the previous thread as I remember someone having the same issue, finding it and then being "Yeah, okay that's fine." after.
 
the only points I saw in the thread regarding 2-A were Fiora's vague line about infinite possibilities about the choices there are. Can you actually give the scans on where Infinite timelines or universes comes from?
 
https://youtu.be/t24kvjPF1Qw. Sorry I can't really rename the link since I'm using my phone, but the line is at about 4:14. In Japanese he's saying "Mugen no heiretsu jikü uchü ga sonzai suru". The word "mugen" is part of the line and mugen means "infinite" in Japanese. When he says that line, he's referring to the infinite amount of universes that coexist with each other.
 
He does say in the video and relying on ears to here voice, there is "Mugen no heiretsu jikü uchü ga sonzai suru" Which using Word Hippo. Which is considered reliable by many users here, I got the translation bit by bit as "Infinite of parallel space-time universes exist". Plus, there's actually a couple other details; like Nopon Archsage mentioning there exists as many worlds as their are possibilities.

Furthermore, I'm still working on the final revision, but there's some strong likeliness of Xenosaga being canon to Xenoblade. Kos-Mos and T-elos both appear in Xenoblade and they make it pretty obvious that the plot of Xenosaga Episode III is canon to their backstory. There's also this scan from the official XB2 artbook having the same connection to Vector Industries and Shion Uzuki being her canon creator. And Xenosaga pretty much confirms the existence of an infinite number of universes.
 
are you sure it's in that timeframe? I've been listing to that part like 5 times and I did not hear him say any part of that line in japanese.

@DDM are they actually relevant to the plot of Xenoblade 2 or are they just cameo characters? Cause if it's the latter I don't see how Xenosaga is remotely reliable to scale to Xenoblade when there's nothing that states their worlds being canon to each other.
 
They're extremely prominent in various Heart to Heart conversations and there are quests dedicated to them. They're both recruit-able playable characters and also, Kos-Mos (from Xenosaga), Shulk (From XB1), and Elma (From XBX) are all required to view this heart to heart conversatio. And what they all have in common is they came from different universes within the multiverse. Also, this image is considered a prominent highlight when you complete the Legend of Torna DLC. Also follows what happens in this ending.

We're not scaling the Xenosaga god tiers to Xenoblade god tiers, just the fact that an infinite number of timelines exist. However Malos does consistently state Artifice Aion can, "Destroy all existence." Kos-Mos will also have her own key, as it's implied she's way weaker now than she was in Xenosaga.
 
Are they important in the plot like how SMT Dante is important for having a macguffin for finishing the main campaign in SMT Nocturne? Ok, a concept art you get explains nothing in terms of their relevancy to the plot. By this logic I can scale Vergil to DMC 4 Dante because he's a playable character in the game and has some forms of concept art in that game. And what about that ending explains the relevancy to her role to the plot? You're not answering my question.

Says the guy who said in the previous post that they're canon to Xenoblade. Can you make up your mind on whether or not you're scaling Xenosaga to Xenoblade?
 
They don't have to be a primary protagonist to be considered legit for scaling. They don't have to be recruited to finish the game, but they do to 100% it and have access to certain quests and heart to heart conversations that are indeed canon. It's not like you have to recruit every single character in Fire Emblem for them to be considered canon characters. Kos-Mos and T-elos are as canon to Xenoblade Chronicles 2 as various recruit-able enemy units are canon to their respective Fire Emblem games. As are support conversations canon parts of the characters' backstory and lore. Post games from Final Fantasy are also typically considered canon to Final Fantasy's lore in the same context. So Land of Challenge is canon to the Xenoblade Multiverse. Read the bottom left corner of the concept art.

Kos-Mos Vector-Industries
Vector Industries, Shion Uzuki, Allen Ridgeley. Why would their names appear in a 2019 artbook officially approved by Tetsuya Takahashi, Monolith Soft, and Nintendo as a canonical source? Much like Hyrule Historia or Hyrule Encyclopedia, this is a reliable source of information.

Also, not what I meant. The god tier of Xenosaga; U-Do is Tier 1, and I heard High 1-B based on transending the Upper Domai. However, the Lower Domai still has an infinite number of timelines within it. Never suggested Shulk or the others Tier 1 without deep proof.
 
Considering how the main reason SMT Dante is remotely accepted in the wiki because of his relevance to the plot and difference in how he behaves compared to his original self, yes they do need to be legit, otherwise Smash characters wouldn't have lost all of their profiles. Fire Emblem is a massive false equivalence, you're comparing a game where there's no cameos for any of the previous games aside from DLC, to a game that relegates a previous character as a cameo with no relevance to the plot.

A reliable source that explains nothing aside from a reference to a name. By this logic Vlad the Impaler is a canon character to Castlevania because he has his face shown in one of the items.

Right, and you totally didn't throw in the comment on Xenosaga being canon to Xenoblade as some argument for 2-A Xenoblade to be legit.
 
Another difference is that Dante was originally made by a different company than SMT. And the Dante in SMT is not the same Dante from DMC. He's in original character who's simply modeled after Dante. SMT Dante is canon to SMT and not canon to DMC. Fire Emblem is not false equivalency and Kos-Mos and T-elos are not merely cameos. They're the same Kos-Mos and T-elos from Xenosaga. As much as Shulk in Land of Challenge is the same Shulk from Xenoblade 1. And Elma is the same Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X. It's not just their names and faces, but the fact that they've had sibling rivalry from birth. 100% identical to the plot of Xenosaga III. It's literally explained in their personal quests and heart to heart conversations. There's also a character who looks like Shion, whom Kos-Mos mentions looking just like her old master.

Vlad is false equivalency. I doubt that's something made by the same creators as oppose by the fact that they literally layed out Kos-Mos personal characteristics connecting them to the Xenosaga counterparts.
 
Thanks for explaining to me the obvious thing about SMT Dante and ignore what I'm remotely talking about, how about you explain to me how in anyway Xenosaga is canon to Xenoblade beyond artwork and some random ass ending? Cause again Vergil can scale to DMC 4 characters by that logic. So you're not gonna elaborate on how FE is not a false equivalency? Great. And so far the only evidence you've shown that Xenosaga is canon to Xenoblade is artwork and some random ass ending that explains nothing.

Explain how he's a false equivalency when he's relegated to a reference just like that random scan you have that just references other characters?
 
Well, the Zohar in Xenogears(which is canon to Xenosaga) is described similarly to the conduit, as it's referred to as a " psuedo-perpetual infinite energy machine" in a cutscene, and another parallel between the two is the fact that they're both stated to come from higher dimensions that can't be perceived by those in the 4th dimension. This is shown to us in XC2 through Klaus not being able to see where the Conduit's power comes from, despite being able to see into all of the 4th dimension. Then in Xenogears it's shown through the fact that people in the 4th dimension can't perceive the true form of the Zohar because it exists in a higher dimension. Basically what I'm trying to say is that another reason why Xenosaga and Xenoblade are canon to each other is the existence of the Zohar/Conduit. Here's a link to the video I'm referring to from Xenogears https://youtu.be/jjlXzOCUWlY.
 
Where is the statement that they are the exact same thing? Also again you sure that timestamp is right because I didn't hear Klaus say the word Mugen in the cutscene, let alone that entire sentence.
 
Statements aren't the only way to determine the whether or not something's canon. And I also left a few things out, so some more proof of the Zohar and the Conduit being the same thing is the fact that they were both discovered in Africa during the 21st century, and they're both said to be gifts from a divine power. Also, yeah I'm pretty sure that's the right timestamp, we're probably hearing things differently.
 
Thatsafloridathing said:
https://youtu.be/t24kvjPF1Qw. Sorry I can't really rename the link since I'm using my phone, but the line is at about 4:14. In Japanese he's saying "Mugen no heiretsu jikü uchü ga sonzai suru". The word "mugen" is part of the line and mugen means "infinite" in Japanese. When he says that line, he's referring to the infinite amount of universes that coexist with each other.
Click to expand...
he doesn`t say that.He didn`t say mugen.He just said that a lot of universes coexist with each other
 
Having similarities with one another doesn't make them the same exact thing. By this logic any Final Fantasy game that has Crystals are canon to each other because they share a similar plot macguffin.
 
I must've been wrong about the translation then, I'm very sorry for the misinformation. @Theglassman12 Then what about extremely specific details like the fact that they were both discovered in Africa during the 21st century?
 
Were they both referenced in Xenogears or Xenosaga? If not that's merely a nod to the previous game. Again Final Fantasy games have the 4 Elemental Crystals as a plot point in many of the entries and they aren't solid proof that the worlds are canon to each other unless there's a lot of proof like events of the previous games being mentioned and all that jazz.
 
Ok, and is there any proof Xenosaga is in anyway canon to Xenoblade aside from Pokémon summoning a character that has no relevance to the plot aside from being a cameo?
 
No no, I actually meant for my comment regarding the Zohar and the Conduit to be more supporting evidence for Xenoblade and Xenosaga/Xenogears being canon to each other, that's why I brought that up.
 
So is there any other 2-A proof that Xenoblade has? Cause the only evidence I've seen is a line from Fiora that says nothing about the size of the verse, and a mistranslation error. If there isn't then they should be 2-B at max.
 
Technically, all Final Fantasy games are part of the same multiverse. So that's a counter intuitive statement. And yeah, I mainly relied on ear analysis, after the Oku no Sekai-Inae, Tanahine something, was when I roughly heard the Mugen and the words that followed.

However, I really don't think we should ignore this cutscene. What the four protagonists really have in common is that they're all protagonists in their games as well as originating from parallel universes. Example is here, which Shulk and Fiora make multiple statements about the Bionis, Mechonis, Fiora being a former Mechon, and Shulk knowing Monado was made by a God. Thus proving this is post game Shulk and Fiora. Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X also meets the same way.

Furthermore, there's the fact they've known each other as arch enemies for many years. Much like in Xenosaga Episode III. Tetsuya even mentioned in an interview that Kos-Mos in Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was the same as the one in Xenosaga being remodeled, but still maintaining the same essence and memories.
 
Is there anything you can say that you can actually elaborate on? Explain how every single FF game is canon to each other. Yeah he does not remotely say Mugen in the timestamp at all, and I replayed that clip like 5 times to make sure I wasn't hearing things differently.

So the Shulk that has the baby version of the Monado instead of the Monado 3 who also tossed away his Monado to Alvis so gods won't exist in his world just happens to have a Monado despite discarding it in the end of the game, and this is supposed to be after Xenoblade 1. Doesn't that raise many questions if this is the Shulk from after his game is done?

Ok, and you also said that she's not as strong as she is in Xenosaga so that argument for them scaling to Xenosaga is irrelevant. So again, what other 2-A feats does Xenoblade have?
 
The reason why Shulk has the Monado again is most likely due to the Nopon Archsage in the DLC, he's obviously shown to not have possession of it prior to arriving with Elma and Fiora. He's not in the XC1 universe at that point either.
 
And I also don't think he was trying to make an argument involving scaling, just that the KOS-MOS in XC2 has the same exact conscious and memories as the one from Xenosaga which would once again point towards 2-A due to the existence of a 2-A structure in Xenosaga's Lower Domain.
 
We've had multiple discussions regarding Final Fantasy, and it's the reason Exdeath is 2-A because other Final Fantasy games has statements regarding "Infinite number of worlds" or "Infinite number of possibilities". Dissidia Final Fantasy links them together. Also, there are three Japanese words that mean infinite.

Shulk uses a Replica Monado that the Nopon Archsage created for him. No one is saying he's Tier to in that instance, just that it's canon part of the Xenoblade multiverse. It's cut and dry if you actually pay attentions to the statements and cutscenes.

Yes, Kos-Mos is a mid tier blade. She's only going to be Tier 6 scaling from base Mythra. The cosmology is still way more tha 2-B if Xenosaga is canon. As for why 2-A is possibly legit. Malos consistently says he will "Destroy all existence" with Artifice Aion. The ending also uses "All the worlds" as plural meaning it's not just the Universe. And him being one of the three core crystals of the Conduit should mean he's well aware of the existence of alternate realities.
 
Did you bother reading those words? Cause guess what, only one of them flat out say Infinite for the meaning.

All of existence doesn't tell me there's infinite universes. Which you have not shown any proof that there's infinite universes at all in this entire thread. Show it to me right now, otherwise they're not 2-A.
 
Well, we've already established the idea of Xenoblade being canon to Xenosaga through the fact that the Zohar is the Conduit. So taking that into account, the Lower Domain in Xenosaga houses the entirety of the 4th dimension so that's something I guess.
 
It being the 4th dimension doesn't automatically mean infinite universes. That can easily just be Low 2-C if there's no elaboration on how big the 4th dimension is.
 
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