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Femto ( Griffith ) vs Yukari Yakumo

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Femto wins thanks to his intangibility, casuality manipulation, reality warping and acausality.
 
^Not any of it would Yukari's ability couldn't manipulate though. She got the same level of Reality Warping, could cause impossible thing like an Perpeptual Machine to come forth, and many others. If he just exist outside of the stories, Yukari would pulled him into her own world, like she do with Gensokyo, and the boundary between fantasy and reality mean that she's already create a different space and causality.
 
Isn't Yukari's ability of boundary manipulation a bit of a NLF? As in its limits are never explained or explored and others usually just extrapolate it to the infinite possibility without any proof it can actually reach such limits?

In terms of hax Femto has a lot more but since I don't understand Yukari's ability at all I can only say either Femto or Inconclusive.
 
Der Purple Ist Dank said:
Isn't Yukari's ability of boundary manipulation a bit of a NLF? As in its limits are never explained or explored and others usually just extrapolate it to the infinite possibility without any proof it can actually reach such limits?
In terms of hax Femto has a lot more but since I don't understand Yukari's ability at all I can only say either Femto or Inconclusive.
Click to expand...
Basically, she's control the boundaries that seperate and define everything, either physical (the shape and property of the object), or abstract (that's where most of her's known application come from, like the border between fantasy and reality, day and night, live and death, real and fake, etc...). She's stated to master this a long time ago, and could control any border she wanted. She does have limit as a Youkai though, due to Status Quo against the divine of her realm. (Though in my opinion, if she could manipulate the border between human and youkai, that limit is superficial)
 
@Andykhang, I... Kinda get it now but it seems vague to me. I'm not sure how that would fair against other reality warpers or someone with as much hax as Femto. I guess I'm sticking with inconclusive unless someone proves otherwise
 
Thing about her is vague, but I could give some example: The border between Fantasy and Reality is what she used to seperate Gensokyo from the outside world, so as long as thing was forgotten, everything would passed through to there, because what have been consider forgotten is consider to be fantasy. Also by manipulating that, she could pull out impossible thing that's exist only in fantasy, like a Perpeptual Machine of the First Kind (give energy with no work).
 
This is actually confusing me more on how she would use it against Femto and how well it would work... Sorry, I ain't that bright when it comes to wrapping my head around hax or greater forms of manipulation :p.
 
Yeah, want to added more about that: For example, she met someone with RW:

+She could know instantly about the opponent by controlling the boundary of knowledge and be "in the know".

+She could decided whether the person in front of her would survive or not, through the border of live and death, or existence and non-existence.

+She could control the ability itself by manipulating the boundary of possesion (or whether they would be in possesion of this or not), or the boundary of authority (whether someone have authority or not or having higher or lower)

+She could control the "boundary" of it effect, or whether or not it would work through myriad of boundary (like probability, authority again, or effective and ineffective)

+ Or she could just decided whether the opponent would win or not, again through probability.

There're still many more way, but that's the thing that come to mind. Of course that it's a bit NLF.
 
I'll give my vote to Yukari. It seems like she can do practically everything Femto can do, and more.

Edit: On second thought, I'll change my vote to inconclusive since they're both way to haxed to tell, but I'm still leaning more towards Yukari.
 
Yukari for the statements above. Seriously, this Boundry thing sounds scary.
 
Guys, be sure to give reasoning for your votes, either agreeing with the prior reasoning of previous commenters or explaining your vote. There's a reason one word votes are not counted on many matches
 
Kawaru Shotomata said:
i will go with femto , Boundary manipulation of Yukari is pretty much NLF
Click to expand...
I mean if we have evidence for whatever Andy said, then Yukari could in fact beat Griffith.
 
Since acasuality is mostly assumption... And standard distance is only 4 km. Yukari wins without using her hax. Her light based attacks travel too fast for her opponent to dodge. Other Femto's abilities is too common in Gensoukyou to be considered a threat.

P.S.: And do not believe in many boundary things... =)
 
At least one of the thing I said is true though (The life and death thing). And she does give a vipe that, yeah, she could do that. She's too smart not to. The information could be derived from the truth and lied, and... that's about it.
 
Has Yukari ever combatted anyone who has access to Empathic Manipulation? Because Femto's aura is enough to make people bow down to his will and even bring fear to them (Ganishka) it's possible Yukari as well may be subjected to this.

Boundary manipulation will pretty much be made null when you have a being who can manipulate causality on such a scale that they are compared to an author writing down the events of a story. And just making history shaping events (birth of Falconia)

Has she ever manipulated the boundaries of causality before?
 
Considering how she herself could access the mind, and have a nine-tailed fox, a being known for trickery, as a Shikigami. She's certainly qualified.

Though there isn't any stated fact that she have done that. She does own herself a place that's a result of her spliting it from reality, and into what's basically another verse on it own. She can also control the boundary of information by virtue of being able to control Real and Fake, Reality and Fantasy... Not to mention discovering a place that's literally unchanged, meaning to not be affected by any cause, and does stop the day from coming.
 
If it's empathic manipulation weren't some lesser ghosts considered weaklings despite their power of doing so? Add in the fact that Yukari dealt with the likes of before I'm more than sure that she had resistance against mental focused haxx. Her boundary manipulation makes her one of the strongest in Gensokyo and her plethora of haxx makes her on that level. There's also the Constellation feat that's ambigious but still quite a showcase of her standing.

And Casuality and Acasuality are flip sides of each other. Subjective reality is still a good counter to it. Although then again it becomes a question of who strikes first. Even then the fourth wall has been broken before by Yuuka in the PC-98 Era and the SA arc. So there might be a possibility... Well either way Yukari can still hide in her dimension and has my vote. I compare the ability to reverse the effect of 'turning disbelief' into 'the sustaining force of a fantasy based land'. This is said person that can anhiliate Gensokyo after all and have profile notes of 'having no weaknesses' or 'being hard to kill', well in the profile at least.

And Yukari has her own intangibility via hiding behind her gaps, and it's not as if this is the first time she dealt with intangible beings such as spirits and whatnot. Boundary manipulation should handle that too.

Another quote is -

Other than that, since there is a boundary on the water surface so to speak, as there is definitely a distinction between water and atmosphere, and since there is the boundary called the horizon that separates the sky from the earth, as was said, she can freely manipulate the boundary of all existent things at will.

Ultimately, since existence of anything consists of having a boundary, for anything to lose its boundary is a very big thing, as it would then not be able to have its own individual existence. As the rules that govern boundaries would govern this, it is said that to make a new boundary is to create a new existence, and to destroy a boundary is to negate an existence.

Basically, boundary manipulation is pretty powerful in this case. She can also turn something into 2D or at leasth as an ability related to that. Not quite sure so hold that with a grain of salt. Or is that how the phrase goes? I need to sleep.
 
Oh yeah, forgot to said this: Form and Emptyness could be considered the boundary of existence, since it mean a form in a world. 2D and 3D mean that she could control her boundary of attacks,
 
That's Boundary Manipulation for you. But like I said, if there is evidence that supports whatever she can do then I guess it's acceptable.
 
She's that type of character that make people guessing in a bad way.

So, the vote:

Yukari: Me, Yamatohime,COB,Der Puple,Sir Oven, AwildAPSona (6)

Femto: Dark649, LTB2000, Kawaru,Austrian-Man-Meat (4)

Inconclusive: Lobster
 
After further reading, I'll actually settle for Yukari now. The best advantage that Femto would've had against her was acausality, but since that's just an assumption as Yamatohime said, I don't really see how he can keep up.
 
Wank or inability to accept Touhou's vagueness is not actually purely vague? I wonder. Always been hard for Touhou. Either way Lobster delivers the final seal for me. Still Yukari.

Either way is that all? 7 to 4 now.
 
CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
Wank or inability to accept Touhou's vagueness is not actually purely vague? I wonder. Always been hard for Touhou.
Click to expand...
It is mostly assumptions... Even theory about Alice being the same Alice from PC-98 era has more proofs. =)
 
I'd say inconclusive

Yukari's abilities are too vague
 
Promestein said:
Yukari's abilities are too vague
Click to expand...
While Yukari's abilities are vague. At least she has experience with Femto's hax while possessing nice speed advantage of her beam spam.
 
The only person I saw using the Alice from PC-98 thing is you to be honest. Never really trusted the scaling between them since it feels lackluster.

Some are assumptions, some are right.
 
CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
The only person I saw using the Alice from PC-98 thing is you to be honest. Never really trusted the scaling between them since it feels lackluster.
Click to expand...
Nope... It is not about scaling. It is more about bio of character. PC-98 Alice was stated the same Alice. And unlike other MCs it was hinted in different games. =)
 
Emoticons or those faces done that way..... How bothering.

By scaling I mean comparison. And really I haven't seen anyone show the source material for that. So kindly showing off a link would be good too but it doesn't seem much really.
 
CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
By scaling I mean comparison. And really I haven't seen anyone show the source material for that. So kindly showing off a link would be good too but it doesn't seem much really.
Click to expand...
We're flooding now... =_=

But wikia has a lot of materials which are more solid then in-story description of abilities.
 
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