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Gareth vs Cursed Arm Hassan

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He sort of kept up with nerfed Cu and was no diffed by that same Cu .... at least in the movie. Its been nearly 10 years since I read HF so I cant remember shit from the VN.
 
Pretty sure Hassan was blatantly running away for the most part, which is what annoys Cu about him very much. It's also why he didn't simply get thrashed like when he went against EMIYA.

If Gareth blocks the first dirk, he gets his mask piledrivered through his face.
 
@Anon

Didn't he like, defeat Cu? Yeah he was nerfed, but iirc he had the same speed rating. Point is, it isn't a stomp, but if you wanna use speed as a reason to vote then have at it
 
Gemmysaur said:
Pretty sure Hassan was blatantly running away for the most part, which is what annoys Cu about him very much. It's also why he didn't simply get thrashed like when he went against EMIYA.
If Gareth blocks the first dirk, he gets his mask piledrivered through his face.
Click to expand...
Is that a vote for Gareth?
 
He's got comparable parameters, not skill. It's why his go-to is spamming dirk until he can get in a hit. Unfortunately, EMIYA and Medusa who both have range options that is not air cannons can force him into close combat, and he got thrashed.

Yes, vote for Gareth.
 
I mean yeah, he beat Cu after getting pwned evertime he stopped running away, luring him to the Shadow, left him to fight said Shadow (which can hold down and harm Herc) and then sneak attacked him and still almost got GB'd. CAH honestly gets more trash in fights the more I think of him, which is disappointing as I love everything else about him.

Edit: Also voting Gareth.
 
To be completely fair, he's an assassin. He's not some florentine nobleman from the renaissance era who plays 'parry the army until everyone is dead'.

Meanwhile, Cu is a beast that EMIYA considers is at the top 3 of the most skilled Lancers.
 
CAH in character does not use Zabaniya unless he is absolutely sure he can score a kill with it. Which is not the beginning of the battle in the slightest.

He will try to lead the fight until he's certain he can use it, but as established earlier in this thread, uh... not gonna happen.

Cinnamon Roll slaps FRA
 
Likelihood of kill from a sneak attack >>>> Likelihood of kill during a direct confrontation. That is a basic principle for assassins, no?

Assassin can easily retreat to stealth from the beginning of the fight, instead of trying to wear her out head on.
 
And as we saw with Cu, who is equal than her at his peak and even further nerfed while fighting Hassan, that's not happening. He doesn't have the option to retreat, she'll press the attack and easily keep up.

A nerfed Cu was borderline blitzing CAH, and Archer later did the same. He doesn't have the option to fall back.
 
It's also worth adding that even with Zabaniya, he still likely loses.

When he uses or prepares and attack while concealed, he must drop the concealment. Meaning that whenever he uses an attack, there is a small window for someone who is fast enough to detect and counter. And since Zabaniya can be easily swatted away by a nerfed Saber, and only worked on Cu by catching him off guard as he fought against the shadow, I shouldn't have to say that it is unlikely it will work.

There is still a small chance of victory if he can retreat and plays his cards exceptionally well, but even then the chances are slim due to the raw difference between the two fighters.
 
Saber can sense CAH with his presence concealment even before they fought so he didn't have a stealth advantage, and Saber has precog to boot, so it is not comparable to Gareth's situation.

The Fate manual says that even if CAH failed to defeat Cu, he can conceal himself and await for an other opportunity to strike.

As I said, Gareth's senses are the determining factor even if we grant she is faster, since with stealth CAH is capable of killing a Servant faster than Enkidu.
 
Fate/complete material

In comparison to the other Servants, Assassin's combat ability is lacking. However, the outlook changes if Assassin uses Presence Containment to acquire a perfect killing opportunity. Even if the first blow fails to defeat the enemy, Assassin can conceal himself again with Presence Concealment, and vigilantly await a new opportunity. As a matter of fact, even the formidable Cu Chulainn was easily defeated when he faced Hassan.

Y'all see that? Cursed Arm Hassan defeated Cu (whom Gareth is being compared to) easily, and he would have no trouble escaping if he felt things aren't going his way. It was all just according to Keikaku.

( •_•)>ÔîÉÔûí-Ôûí (ÔîÉÔûí_Ôûí)
 
No. CAH with help defeated a nerfed Cu after getting thrashed for the entirety of the fight and could only run away until he reached a place where his help (which uber hard counters Servants) could attack and he still would have lost if he was a hair slower. That is not easily at all. Not nerfed Cu blitzes nerfed Cu who was outspeeding Archer with ease who in turn caught up to and dominated CAH who had a head start on him even after getting hit by the Shadow.
 
It implies that getting thrashed = luring Cu to a trap. Also there is a difference between "speed blitzing" and "outpacing", what Cu did was the later; CAD has A rank Agility too after all (despite being massively outskilled).

If CAD didn't conclude he would be able to kill Cu with prep, he would not have revealled himself in the open or would disappear when Cu was chasing him.

The speed gap isn't much of an issue if CAD can attack from stealth (reminder that in Artoria's case, her instincts are so high she could sense CAD's killing intent through his Presence Concealment), since it is confirmed that CAD can kill Servants faster than Enkidu with stealth, a counter-argument should be attempted about how good Gareth's senses are.
 
You are missing my point. CAH does not have prep to lure Gareth into so him doing so to Cu is irrelevant aside from the part where nerfed Cu stomped him into the dirt, road, wall, roof top, car etc

Too bad he has no prep and gets bullied the instant he drops PC. Just look at CAH vs Rider who is slower than Cu in immediate speed, where she completely dominated CAH who was smarter than he was against Cu and he had no oppurtunity to run away until she let him. When people blitz you so hard they have to let you run away, you know you are useless against similar speed characers that aren't being casual about taking you apart.
 
My point is, if:

  • 1- CAH has a trap and has gauged his opponent's abilities, he is willing to let himself get trashed around to lure his target.
  • 2- If CAH doesn't have a trap, he'll keep hidden until there is an opportunity to strike, and retreat if he doesn't get the kill to try again.
We know that CAH can assassinate servants with A+ rank in agility from stealth, so what exactly stops CAH from going to stealth and one-shotting Gareth?

I agree that CAH would get stomped if he tries to fight Gareth head on.

Veloxt1r0kore said:
ShadowWhoWalks said:
( •_•)>ÔîÉÔûí-Ôûí (ÔîÉÔûí_Ôûí)
Click to expand...
This not helping to proof your point at all
And what Anon said makd sense tbh
Click to expand...
That's just humor. Never claimed it does (I think what is above it does though).
 
I'm waiting to see how this goes before I cast my vote, but let me question one thing.


How much does 'loose intel' give them?

I mean, Gareth does have a big weakness.


If Cursed Arm hides somewhere and screams 'LANCELOT IS HERE!!!' at the top of his lungs (it is NOT an attack or aggressive action, so it WON'T drop his PC), he will inevitably have Gareth's attention and she will come to investigate. Which makes any attempt to assassinate her a lot easier.


This is Walmart, right? Lots of places Hassan can sneak around waiting for an opportunity.
 
Zenjutsu said:
If Cursed Arm hides somewhere and screams 'LANCELOT IS HERE!!!' at the top of his lungs (it is NOT an attack or aggressive action, so it WON'T drop his PC), he will inevitably have Gareth's attention and she will come to investigate. Which makes any attempt to assassinate her a lot easier.
Click to expand...
Gareth might not be the brightest bulb in the Round Table, but she's not THAT dumb to fall into this kind of trap. If Hassan does that she'll be if anything else even more cautious against him, and if he starts using his NP he will end up revealing himself (As show by his concealment dropping if he even tries attacking her)

Also, does CAH even have an idea what Lancelot is?

Anyways, voting Gareth FRA.
 
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