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Vertigo revisions

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Joemungousaur

Joemungousaur

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I think Vertigo characters' pages need a lot of works and i'll try to help you in this.

Death and Dream must have solid Outerversal ratings.

Dream has enough 1-A feats to be 1-A (which has in his page) and being a primal truth which compose every aspect of The Presence's creation doesn't conradict anything, because Presence's creation has multiple 1-A realms (Limbo, Monitor Sphere and Source Wall).

Death is more powerful than Dream of the Endless and at the very end of Creation, she will claim Destiny of the Endless -the last living being in the universe- and will lock the universe behind her.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-INBo_COW...Y4bQ7EeZzjnCnx6kcgiACLcB/s1600/byedestiny.png

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lcgmXcaC...4uYvcZmklOe7QrCatAgCLcB/s1600/byeuniverse.jpg

Lucifer's explanation must be revised.

He's older and greater than the Angel of Death.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/CBP8BnLW0tRy5odqxz0R6gWZ3eRiPQUH-To0p4ALXG_KW-bQJ2Uk6sdvScm0

Time and Space are extensions of the mind and will, which he embodies as he's Divine Will that shapes creation.

https://imgur.com/a/YV5E5

Dream states that he's the most powerful being in creation (including himself), except his father.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11133/111336830/6390955-luci3.jpg

Capable of moving in, and comprehending the nature of the Boundless Void which is beyond all definitions of space and time.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/106979/6914044-8788905600-53819.jpg

Escaped his function and went to outside of the Presence's plan.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/aPNRON2mX...xEJSAK4xCvVoHIwteENKaD5CwhlhIJbPk-To_k-P7_=s0

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/JY_qxD4Hk...MeHpfhkHCGsQAAdYRilyocnQ85Hne9lH25wGnAAz_z=s0

Destroyed Logos with a touch, Logos is the first Word which sung all of Existence into Being, it is in all terms, God.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107191/3359927-3359858-3355489-logos.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11132/111324587/6066041-9375020742-53814.jpg

Michael's explanation:

Is the mightiest servant of the God.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111178634/6029957-7823219086-bqcri.jpg

Renews every moment and atom of the Presence's creation.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_medium/11117/111178634/6029997-9989900767-QRI1j.jpg

Knocked down Lucifer with one blast.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_medium/11117/111178634/6029977-0332278916-gfj5l.jpg

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_medium/11117/111178634/6029978-9311852860-TmxW4.jpg

Often considered the most powerful being in existence with the exception of his father, God/The Presence.

https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_medium/11117/111178634/6029997-9989900767-QRI1j.jpg

Only Michael's demiurgic power can create a new cosmos out of the Boundless Void

2204192-26.jpg


Lucifer's abilities:

I gave examples for his some abilities.

Space-Time Manipulation (Concepts of space and time are extensions of the mind and will, which he embodies as he's Divine Will that shapes creation)

https://imgur.com/a/YV5E5

Death Manipulation (He creates his own concept of death)

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-49nLZ2dP...OJ7ZsAoHLmNyGZTkpCRJ2rqVLuDpe5A6XEeEzGone1=s0

Resistance to Telepathy (Dark Presence automatically controled several Angels , and all around , but didn't affect to Lucifer , he also freed Mazikeen )

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/GetmQPzqd...ahLOAezPTXQIQ4dZOeb2lqvEJWH5O5BA3xNQO9Q=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/OwvXK-IDJ...U-nAB0nP-82hlqM7te0TGOjnHwW5l9C66qbRIeJ=s1600

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/uUupMU7a6...6yHb5uKJS70pX8xUfk9Gnk8l-F7BhOAd1Rsyy2G=s1600
 
We already have far too many unresolved DC and Marvel Comics revision threads going right now, and I do not get remotely enough help with them from the most knowledgeable members. As such, it is very unlikely that this thread will ever lead anywhere. Sorry.
 
I already had all this in my lucifer document which I made every reading every single one of his appearances, and yes, I agree.

Dream and Destiny extend beyond creation to an extent, except Destiny (who fictionally transcends it but can't encompass anything when it reaches the overvoid).

We know Dream also moved beyond destiny's book and remade ALL of creation (Destiny's book) with the power of a thousand dreams, and took that event at point blank, even crazier considering Izanami was channeling the entirety of humanity's dreaming, and she was still afraid Dream was gonna slap her.

Death is a obvious solid 1-A, so is Dream, as without Dream, EVERYTHING would collapse.

For the Michael stuff, this is my only disagreement.

- Him and Lucifer were both extremely weakend during that encounter, and even then Lucifer still killed him.

- Lucifer is consistently above him, as he tanked the demiurgic power at point blank.

For the hax, I agree, he should also have resistance to Probability, Fate and Death Manipulation if he doesn't already, since he doesn't care for the Basanos' power.
 
@Matthew

If The Endless should be 1-A, what should their justifications say?
 
All members of the Endless are the primal truths which compose every aspect of The Presence's creation, which contains multiple 1-A realms such as Limbo, Monitor Sphere and The Source Wall.

How is this?
 
Maybe, but more input from staff and knowledgeable members would be much preferred.
 
Lucifer should also have Social Influencing. (Convinced a Shiko-Me demon to spare him, reveal her masters plans, then allowed him to kill her. The Japanese Pantheon explicitly stated that the assassin should have killed Lucifer before he could open his mouth. Consistently talks his way out of most situations) Also, potential quotes for Lucifer:

1. "Why do they blame me for all their little failings? They use my name as if I spent my entire days sitting on their shoulders, forcing them to commit acts they would otherwise find repulsive. 'The devil made me do it.' I have never made one of them do anything. Never. They live their own tiny lives. I do not live their lives for them." -Lucifer to Dream in Season of Mists

2. "They used to call the devil the father of lies. But for someone whose sin is meant to be pride, you'd think that lying would leave something of a sour taste. So my theory is that when the devil wants to get something out of you, he doesn't lie at all. He tells you the exact, literal truth. And he lets you find your own way to hell." -David Easterman after meeting Lucifer.

Potential quotes for Michael:

1. "Because I retain a sense of duty to something beyond myself, you think of me as a fool. There are no grounds on which we can ever meet, Lucifer. So we must be content to pity each other from a distance."

2. "Once before you have roused me to anger as a means of manipulating me, but have a care. When once I start to destroy, I may not stop with you."
 
Merciful lord above, another DC/Marvel thread

@Joemungousaur the justification is good. For Death, you should also include a mention of how she will claim Destiny at the end of the universe and is clearly above Dream.

@Lord Urien that's all well and good, justification is good, but I would appreciate links to where this happened.
 
Lucifer Morningstar

Outerverse level (Time and Space are extensions of the mind and will, which he embodies as he's Divine Will that shapes creation. Dream states that he's the most powerful being in creation (including himself), except his father. Capable of moving in, and comprehending the nature of the Boundless Void which is beyond all definitions of space and time. Escaped his functio and went to outside of the Presence's pla.Destroyed Logos with a touch, Logos is the first Word which sung all of Existence into Being, it is in all terms, God.)

Michael Demiurgos

Outerverse level (Is the mightiest servant of the Presence. Renews every moment and atom of the Presence's creation which contains 1-A realms such as Limbo, Monitor Sphere and The Source Wall. Often considered the most powerful being in existence with the exception of his father, God/The Presence.)

Death of the Endless

Outerverse level (All members of the Endless are the primal truths which compose every aspect of The Presence's creation, which contains 1-A realms such as Limbo, Monitor Sphere and The Source Wall. Is more powerful than Dream of the Endless and at the very end of Creation, she will claim Destiny of the Endless -the last living being in the universe- and will lock the universe behind her. Death exists anywhere that the concepts of life and death exist, even in places beyond time and space like The Darkness or The Void)

Dream of the Endless

Outerverse level (All members of the Endless are the primal truths which compose every aspect of The Presence's creation, which contains 1-A realms such as Limbo, Monitor Sphere and The Source Wall. His oldest incarnation exists beyond space and time, in the space beyond space and space beneath space. His ship, which is made from a piece of The Dreaming sails outside of space or time , in nowhere and nothing outside of Destiny's Book. The aspects of Dream exist in a notional place, neither real or unreal)

Delirium, Desire, Destruction and Despair

Outerverse level (All members of the Endless are the primal truths which compose every aspect of The Presence's creation, which contains 1-A realms such as Limbo, Monitor Sphere and The Source Wall.)
 
No no, wait, change the Logos justification so no one thinks he killed the presence

also, how are we going to use a scan on lucifer's profile which says he is > michael, then use a scan on michael's profile which says he is > lucifer?
 
Is Michael really stronger though? I mean every battle against Lucifer he either gets killed or captured.
 
It's debateable, Lucifer did tank the entirety of the demiurgic power at point blank, but there is the argument that he was weakend as he was expending his power keeping sandelphon's shit from collapsing, then the counter argument Michael's power was infinite anyway, yada yada, lucifer is stronger imo
 
Hmm i think Michael's statement should be removed, Dream is a more credible source than an archangel (Uriel).
 
I mean why though. Gabriel isn't even shown to be anywhere near the Brothers.
 
Question, could it be noted in Death's description that she's the strongest of the Endless? Or does the "she will claim Destiny of the Endless -the last living being in the universe-" cover that?
 
I think that this seems fine, with the exception of the complaint from Hykuu concerning the Logos, and that we need to modify the statements regarding who is stronger among Michael and Lucifer/Samael so they do not contradict each other.
 
That seems fine, except for some inappropriate uppercase letters.
 
I made another small fix. It seems fine now.
 
Okay, thank you.

The only problem we have is deciding which one of Lucifer and Michael is stronger.

Matthew approved The Endless to be 1-A.

Crimson Azoth and Hykuu also approved the adjustments.
 
Yes. That seems fine then.

We could simply mention that they are roughly equal, and leave it at that.
 
 
I suppose that seems fine, yes.
 
Can we start editing pages? though I don't think I'm experienced enough to do it, and I may have some mistakes because English is not my first language.
 
Joemungousaur said:
Lucifer Morningstar

Outerverse level (Time and Space are extensions of the mind and will, which he embodies as he's Divine Will that shapes creation. Dream states that he's the most powerful being in creation (including himself), except his father. Capable of moving in, and comprehending the nature of the Boundless Void which is beyond all definitions of space and time. Escaped his functio and went to outside of the Presence's pla.Destroyed Logos with a touch, Logos is the first Word which sung all of Existence into Being, it is in all terms, God.)

Michael Demiurgos

Outerverse level (Is the mightiest servant of the Presence. Renews every moment and atom of the Presence's creation which contains 1-A realms such as Limbo, Monitor Sphere and The Source Wall. Often considered the most powerful being in existence with the exception of his father, God/The Presence.)

Death of the Endless

Outerverse level (All members of the Endless are the primal truths which compose every aspect of The Presence's creation, which contains 1-A realms such as Limbo, Monitor Sphere and The Source Wall. Is more powerful than Dream of the Endless and at the very end of Creation, she will claim Destiny of the Endless -the last living being in the universe- and will lock the universe behind her. Death exists anywhere that the concepts of life and death exist, even in places beyond time and space like The Darkness or The Void)

Dream of the Endless

Outerverse level (All members of the Endless are the primal truths which compose every aspect of The Presence's creation, which contains 1-A realms such as Limbo, Monitor Sphere and The Source Wall. His oldest incarnation exists beyond space and time, in the space beyond space and space beneath space. His ship, which is made from a piece of The Dreaming sails outside of space or time , in nowhere and nothing outside of Destiny's Book. The aspects of Dream exist in a notional place, neither real or unreal)

Delirium, Desire, Destruction and Despair

Outerverse level (All members of the Endless are the primal truths which compose every aspect of The Presence's creation, which contains 1-A realms such as Limbo, Monitor Sphere and The Source Wall.)
Click to expand...

I agree with the proposed changes
 
@SuperAPM

Thank you for the evaluation.

@Joe

You can probably start with the edits, yes.

Somebody needs to first write a list of the exact page titles for all o the pages that need to be unlocked, so my automated script kan handle it though.

Then you need to closely follow the instructions linked below, so everything is handled properly:

Common Editing Mistakes

Standard Format for Character Profiles
 
Are the Endless higher than Monitors(Mobius, Forger, etc)?
 
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