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Yukari Yakumo vs Kaguya Ootsutsuki
- Thread starter Andykhang
- Start date
- Status
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Yukari due to her higher intelligence. That and give her prep time and she would likely formulte plans within plans (see SSiB) considering Kaguya isn't as bright outside of a singular long range plan. The Truth Seeker Orb and Ash Bones, while powerful, could just get gapped away (the latter could likely just end up being gapped and strike the back of Kaguya's skull before she notices) as well once thown at her and Yukari could escape BFR at an easier pace, as well as having a superior AOE with danmaku and potential screwing any potental borders to make Kaguya less effective.
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My vote? Of course, my avatar says it all xD
This is a fight with prep time, like Batman vs Superman. Yukari is very smart (A true mastermind), she will investigate Kaguya from the gaps and find a way to beat her. While Kaguya is an arrogant hard-headed person who don't give a f*ck about anyone but herself (That's exactly how Naruto and Sasuke beat her btw).
With border manipulation, she can just remove the border between Kaguya's attack and environment to remove that attack from reality (Just like how she messed with the sky in PCB, where she moved the border of the day and night to create a "half-day, half-night sky"). Though she can't do the same with Kaguya due to Spell Card's Rule (Damn you ZUN).
In case someone don't know about Yukari's border manipulation, read her profile, there's a part about it.
In case someone say anything like "there's no border in Kaguya's attack" or "Kaguya can block her border manipulation, just like Reimu do", i don't even see any feat like that in Naruto but if you want it that way, ok. Yukari can just open her gap to throw Kaguya's attack to wherever she want. In case Kaguya want to move somewhere else with her Yomotsu Hirasaka or take Yukari to somewhere else, it's pointless
Yukari's gap > Kaguya's YH IMO.
Amenominaka? Yukari can just hide in her gap, tadaa, no matter where Kaguya take her to, it's meaningless.
Infinite Tsukuyomi + World of Trees? As long as the tree's roots can't catch her, this ability is useless.
And finally, the Truth-Seeking balls and Ash Bones. They are Kaguya's masterpieces. Yet, 1 gap, here goes nothing.
This is a fight with prep time, like Batman vs Superman. Yukari is very smart (A true mastermind), she will investigate Kaguya from the gaps and find a way to beat her. While Kaguya is an arrogant hard-headed person who don't give a f*ck about anyone but herself (That's exactly how Naruto and Sasuke beat her btw).
With border manipulation, she can just remove the border between Kaguya's attack and environment to remove that attack from reality (Just like how she messed with the sky in PCB, where she moved the border of the day and night to create a "half-day, half-night sky"). Though she can't do the same with Kaguya due to Spell Card's Rule (Damn you ZUN).
In case someone don't know about Yukari's border manipulation, read her profile, there's a part about it.
In case someone say anything like "there's no border in Kaguya's attack" or "Kaguya can block her border manipulation, just like Reimu do", i don't even see any feat like that in Naruto but if you want it that way, ok. Yukari can just open her gap to throw Kaguya's attack to wherever she want. In case Kaguya want to move somewhere else with her Yomotsu Hirasaka or take Yukari to somewhere else, it's pointless
Yukari's gap > Kaguya's YH IMO.Amenominaka? Yukari can just hide in her gap, tadaa, no matter where Kaguya take her to, it's meaningless.
Infinite Tsukuyomi + World of Trees? As long as the tree's roots can't catch her, this ability is useless.
And finally, the Truth-Seeking balls and Ash Bones. They are Kaguya's masterpieces. Yet, 1 gap, here goes nothing.
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Wow, wasn't expecting people to actually vote for Yukari, but seeing all those... Yeah seems credible.
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Well, her barrier manipulation was never shown to be effective as offensive but it is a good ability for intel-gathering and defense (especialy versus ranged attacks). Some types of attacks (true divine ones for example) can nullify it though.
Additionaly all Touhou characters are speed equalized to each other and still able to dodge barrages after barrages while doing the same for their opponents. Add here... That Yukari actualy posses light-based attacks which can't be equalized. So the battle probably starts with massive damage via beam spam.
Additionaly all Touhou characters are speed equalized to each other and still able to dodge barrages after barrages while doing the same for their opponents. Add here... That Yukari actualy posses light-based attacks which can't be equalized. So the battle probably starts with massive damage via beam spam.
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"Specifically she is not capable of creating gaps to the moon, which is inhabited by beings which are stated to be far superior to any youkai, and she is not capable of manipulating the boundaries near the Moriya shrine, which has two gods as inhabitants. The specific reasons why this boundaries are exceptions was never explained and can only be speculated upon. Even though this exceptions are considerable she is known to manipulate various fundamental boundaries such as the boundaries between truth and falsehood, reality and fantasy, human and youkai, life and death, awake and asleep, day and night or winter and spring."
What makes you think she can have fun in Kaguya's dimensions? Kaguya's reality warping renders Yukari's boundary controlling basically useless since Kaguya's range is planetary and she can become one with all of the landscape, striking her from anywhere.
You guys speak of Kaguya's attacks as if she has no control of how its directed towards Yukari.
Truth seeking balls are controlled by the user to go any where they please and I'm unsure if Kaguya has a range limit seeing as how she can create a planetary one. Truth Seeking Balls can change forms and split far out to avoid clashing w/ Yukari's barriers. How many barriers can Yukari have open, how long do they stay out and how long until she can use it again? Kaguya's range is pretty much everywhere so unless Yukari has a counter to Kaguya's reality warp its gonna be a struggle.
What makes you think she can have fun in Kaguya's dimensions? Kaguya's reality warping renders Yukari's boundary controlling basically useless since Kaguya's range is planetary and she can become one with all of the landscape, striking her from anywhere.
You guys speak of Kaguya's attacks as if she has no control of how its directed towards Yukari.
Truth seeking balls are controlled by the user to go any where they please and I'm unsure if Kaguya has a range limit seeing as how she can create a planetary one. Truth Seeking Balls can change forms and split far out to avoid clashing w/ Yukari's barriers. How many barriers can Yukari have open, how long do they stay out and how long until she can use it again? Kaguya's range is pretty much everywhere so unless Yukari has a counter to Kaguya's reality warp its gonna be a struggle.
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1) Infinite Tsukiyomi's range is planetary, theres no dodging it.OwariNepgear said:My vote? Of course, my avatar says it all xD
This is a fight with prep time, like Batman vs Superman. Yukari is very smart (A true mastermind), she will investigate Kaguya from the gaps and find a way to beat her. While Kaguya is an arrogant hard-headed person who don't give a f*ck about anyone but herself (That's exactly how Naruto and Sasuke beat her btw).
With border manipulation, she can just remove the border between Kaguya's attack and environment to remove that attack from reality (Just like how she messed with the sky in PCB, where she moved the border of the day and night to create a "half-day, half-night sky"). Though she can't do the same with Kaguya due to Spell Card's Rule (Damn you ZUN).
In case someone don't know about Yukari's border manipulation, read her profile, there's a part about it.
In case someone say anything like "there's no border in Kaguya's attack" or "Kaguya can block her border manipulation, just like Reimu do", i don't even see any feat like that in Naruto but if you want it that way, ok. Yukari can just open her gap to throw Kaguya's attack to wherever she want. In case Kaguya want to move somewhere else with her Yomotsu Hirasaka or take Yukari to somewhere else, it's pointless
Amenominaka? Yukari can just hide in her gap, tadaa, no matter where Kaguya take her to, it's meaningless.
Infinite Tsukuyomi + World of Trees? As long as the tree's roots can't catch her, this ability is useless.
And finally, the Truth-Seeking balls and Ash Bones. They are Kaguya's masterpieces. Yet, 1 gap, here goes nothing.
2) Kaguya can nuke out tons of truth seeking balls and ash bones.
3) Yukari hiding in Kaguya's Ameno is exactly what will put her into a trap LOL
4) Kaguya can hold down Yukari with her gravity manipulation and strike her with an ash killing bone. If a gap appears in front of here, Kaguya can just launch tons from other small dimension openings
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You did see that Yukari is leagues above Kaguya in intelligence right? We're talking about someone who used the main character as a distraction so her best friend can sneak behind enemy lines and even fringe her defeat to trick basically demigod moon brats for one. Not to mention, her ability to use gaps is far more helpful.
Gravity? Her own downed animation is using a gap to sink into it. Plus, if we're being honest, Kakashi and Obito got up from it, Naruto and Sasuke could still dodge, and Kaguya succumbed to her own ability. Not to mention considering the Touhou Universe is known for having dimensions within a dimension, Yukari can easily sneak through to escape a TSB,Infinite Tsukuyomi and illusions in general won't be very helpful since she has seen through illusions before in the form of Keine's history erasing , not to mention like I said, she can just gap a TSB and have it pop right inside or next to Kaguya. Should Kaguya try to make a plantery one, Yukari'll easily take advantage of Kaguya's sheer short-sightedness to gap her and the ball to another dimentsion for saftey or to the moon since the ball itself wasn't the size of a planet.
As for how many she can conjure, heres the thing, due to the nature of Touhou, she can conjure as many gaps as she wants for all we know, an example of some she can make in one move for example. Plus, while the speed of the combatants are equalized, who knows for say, their projectile speed. Given Yukari's projectile speed should be lightspeed at the least, imagine this for example, hitting Kaguya at speeds she can't react to. She'd be lucky to even try and get off an Infinite Tsukuyomi when a gap just appears directly above her and shoots light right into her eye.
Gravity? Her own downed animation is using a gap to sink into it. Plus, if we're being honest, Kakashi and Obito got up from it, Naruto and Sasuke could still dodge, and Kaguya succumbed to her own ability. Not to mention considering the Touhou Universe is known for having dimensions within a dimension, Yukari can easily sneak through to escape a TSB,Infinite Tsukuyomi and illusions in general won't be very helpful since she has seen through illusions before in the form of Keine's history erasing , not to mention like I said, she can just gap a TSB and have it pop right inside or next to Kaguya. Should Kaguya try to make a plantery one, Yukari'll easily take advantage of Kaguya's sheer short-sightedness to gap her and the ball to another dimentsion for saftey or to the moon since the ball itself wasn't the size of a planet.
As for how many she can conjure, heres the thing, due to the nature of Touhou, she can conjure as many gaps as she wants for all we know, an example of some she can make in one move for example. Plus, while the speed of the combatants are equalized, who knows for say, their projectile speed. Given Yukari's projectile speed should be lightspeed at the least, imagine this for example, hitting Kaguya at speeds she can't react to. She'd be lucky to even try and get off an Infinite Tsukuyomi when a gap just appears directly above her and shoots light right into her eye.
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- Thread starter
- #12
^It's not about the range and power of the controller, since her power is like a Universe Hacking tool (side, she and Kaguya have pretty much the same feat, with her even putting her own world in another brane). That have to do more with the fact that as a Youkai, Status Quo with the Divine could really stop her from doing anything. (Though it's not like that she couldn't open the Lunar Capital barrier one, otherwise she wouldn't have planted a portal to retrieve Yuyuko and Youmu from the Lunar Capital itself) Last time I remember though, Kaguya isn't some kind of spiritual god, but rather a woman with overpowering amount of power.
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That feat of intelligence isnt that impressive. Kaguya comes from a universe travelling species of aliens who hunt down trees that give them power. She saw through her sons plans to over throw her and planted her will to manipulate an entire shonen manga's history through thousands of years. Not like that has much to do with this fight anyways.
Kaguya got up just seconds later adjusting who is being affected by the gravity
http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_686_15#gohere
Kaguya can tank he own TSB, more impressively her own exapnsive truth seeking ball: http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_689_6#gohere
I only see 8 gap openings on that page, so he limit isn't "as much as she wants"
http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_686_5#gohere Kaguya can run around those with easy as she did against thousands of Naruto clones.
http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_686_7#gohere
http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_684_8#gohere
Whats the speed of the gap anyways? Kaguya can just move around and dodge them if they're not up to her speed. + Kaguyas teleportation and dimension warping can take care of where she is between dimensions.
Kaguya wont be affected by infinite tsukiyomi because well... she's the caster. 2) Her eyes allow it to not effect her anyways and 3) She's been in a few infinite tsukiyomi castings her self
Yukari has no doding infinite tsukiomi
+ Prove that those attacks are actually lightspeed and not just magic or energy that looks like light
Kaguya got up just seconds later adjusting who is being affected by the gravity
http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_686_15#gohere
Kaguya can tank he own TSB, more impressively her own exapnsive truth seeking ball: http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_689_6#gohere
I only see 8 gap openings on that page, so he limit isn't "as much as she wants"
http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_686_5#gohere Kaguya can run around those with easy as she did against thousands of Naruto clones.
http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_686_7#gohere
http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_684_8#gohere
Whats the speed of the gap anyways? Kaguya can just move around and dodge them if they're not up to her speed. + Kaguyas teleportation and dimension warping can take care of where she is between dimensions.
Kaguya wont be affected by infinite tsukiyomi because well... she's the caster. 2) Her eyes allow it to not effect her anyways and 3) She's been in a few infinite tsukiyomi castings her self
Yukari has no doding infinite tsukiomi
+ Prove that those attacks are actually lightspeed and not just magic or energy that looks like light
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She can be considered a spiritual god seeing as how she was worshipped, is immortal and has immense power. + Kaguya dimension warping and reality warping are different from what Yukari is said to have. Kaguya doesnt confuse the brain, she litterally warps people to another dimension which she has complete control of.Andykhang said:
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Intelligence wise, that was a gamble requiring if Black Zetsu didn't screw up once, a long term manipulation when any paranoid person can correctly assume their loved ones will betray them once they go mad with power. Kaguya's not exactly as intelligent as Momoshiki and he was just as power-hungry as her. As for adjustng, like I said, Kakashi and Obito were up and running shortly after and Yukari can just use a gap to slip into the second she realizes "Oh, shes trying to pin me", as well as keep conjuring gaps to absorb and return to sender.
As for the eight-gap-limit, like I said, Touhou's entire premise is based on everyone holding back because they're basically play-fighting so for all we know, Yukari's just toying around and made a maximum of eight gaps, that fire lasers automatically once the enemy is so much as touched. Trying to spam the bones won't be very effective, and neither would trying to keep attacking someone whose entire shitck is boundary control, including matter w/ antimatter, life w/ death, and 2D w/ 3D, not to mention the high probability and mentioning theres no boundary she can't control. Not to mention, as Subterranian Animism showed, she can conjure gaps for others as seen when shes chosen as Reimu's partner so she can just drop Kaguya and her big black balls into an antimatter boundary and be done wit it Warping others into a dimension is impressive, but when the enemy can just retreat to their home whenever they want, it won't be very impressive.
As for the light magic energy, I believe there are some calcs that can explain it better than I can considering it mostly scales from it. Heck, the gaps when forming pop up within what, 2-3 animation frames?
Lastly. For the sake of arson, murder, and jaywalking... Aliens are generally not spiritual beings.
As for the eight-gap-limit, like I said, Touhou's entire premise is based on everyone holding back because they're basically play-fighting so for all we know, Yukari's just toying around and made a maximum of eight gaps, that fire lasers automatically once the enemy is so much as touched. Trying to spam the bones won't be very effective, and neither would trying to keep attacking someone whose entire shitck is boundary control, including matter w/ antimatter, life w/ death, and 2D w/ 3D, not to mention the high probability and mentioning theres no boundary she can't control. Not to mention, as Subterranian Animism showed, she can conjure gaps for others as seen when shes chosen as Reimu's partner so she can just drop Kaguya and her big black balls into an antimatter boundary and be done wit it Warping others into a dimension is impressive, but when the enemy can just retreat to their home whenever they want, it won't be very impressive.
As for the light magic energy, I believe there are some calcs that can explain it better than I can considering it mostly scales from it. Heck, the gaps when forming pop up within what, 2-3 animation frames?
Lastly. For the sake of arson, murder, and jaywalking... Aliens are generally not spiritual beings.
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Lol! All Touhou characters are Rel+ cause Fairy of Light reacted to Yukari's attack by bending it (which surprised Yukari who proceed with other types of attacks and concluded that the said fairy can control only and only light).
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The reason behind youkai's general weakness versus deities is not that they are deities. It is all run around belief: youkai and deities exist because of it, their powers borned from it and their weaknesses too. But forgotted deities (in Shinto) can degrade to youkai or dissapear (we actualy see it in Touhou). So Kaguya is not deity in Touhou's term. She is more like Lunarians who exist because they exist.JingleFloor said:
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By Naruto's terms Kaguya is considered a god, and getting technical she can be considered a high spiritual being.
"As for the eight-gap-limit, like I said, Touhou's entire premise is based on everyone holding back because they're basically play-fighting so for all we know, Yukari's just toying around and made a maximum of eight gaps, that fire lasers automatically once the enemy is so much as touched"
The her limit is what ever is shown. Stating that the characters in the verse are meant to hold back but over exaggerating their assumed power is a fallacy.
" As for adjustng, like I said, Kakashi and Obito were up and running shortly after and Yukari can just use a gap to slip into the second she realizes "Oh, shes trying to pin me", as well as keep conjuring gaps to absorb and return to sender."
Exactly, as she lifted the gravity Kakashi and Obito were able to run. Wouldn't have been the case if she didnt adjust. http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_686_15#gohere
"Trying to spam the bones won't be very effective, and neither would trying to keep attacking someone whose entire shitck is boundary control, including matter w/ antimatter, life w/ death, and 2D w/ 3D, not to mention the high probability and mentioning theres no boundary she can't control."
NLF And the bones will surely be effective, its hax is on touch to erase something from existance.
"Not to mention, asSubterranian Animism showed, she can conjure gaps for others as seen when shes chosen as Reimu's partner so she can just drop Kaguya and her big black balls into an antimatter boundary and be done wit it"
This is a 1 v 1, no other characters allowed + How sure are you that Yukari and move a planet sized object through that small gap? You do know it has counter effects right? Expansive Truth Seeking Orb erases things it touches
"Warping others into a dimension is impressive, but when the enemy can just retreat to their home whenever they want, it won't be very impressive."
Well, teleporting out of KAGUYA's dimension is only possible if a character can do cross-dimension teleportation. If Yukari cant teleport out of dimensions into another on her own, she's stuck. Either way Kaguya could continuosly spam dimension switching
"As for the eight-gap-limit, like I said, Touhou's entire premise is based on everyone holding back because they're basically play-fighting so for all we know, Yukari's just toying around and made a maximum of eight gaps, that fire lasers automatically once the enemy is so much as touched"
The her limit is what ever is shown. Stating that the characters in the verse are meant to hold back but over exaggerating their assumed power is a fallacy.
" As for adjustng, like I said, Kakashi and Obito were up and running shortly after and Yukari can just use a gap to slip into the second she realizes "Oh, shes trying to pin me", as well as keep conjuring gaps to absorb and return to sender."
Exactly, as she lifted the gravity Kakashi and Obito were able to run. Wouldn't have been the case if she didnt adjust. http://mangafever.org/Read/Naruto_686_15#gohere
"Trying to spam the bones won't be very effective, and neither would trying to keep attacking someone whose entire shitck is boundary control, including matter w/ antimatter, life w/ death, and 2D w/ 3D, not to mention the high probability and mentioning theres no boundary she can't control."
NLF And the bones will surely be effective, its hax is on touch to erase something from existance.
"Not to mention, asSubterranian Animism showed, she can conjure gaps for others as seen when shes chosen as Reimu's partner so she can just drop Kaguya and her big black balls into an antimatter boundary and be done wit it"
This is a 1 v 1, no other characters allowed + How sure are you that Yukari and move a planet sized object through that small gap? You do know it has counter effects right? Expansive Truth Seeking Orb erases things it touches
"Warping others into a dimension is impressive, but when the enemy can just retreat to their home whenever they want, it won't be very impressive."
Well, teleporting out of KAGUYA's dimension is only possible if a character can do cross-dimension teleportation. If Yukari cant teleport out of dimensions into another on her own, she's stuck. Either way Kaguya could continuosly spam dimension switching
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It doesn't matter if she is considered a god or not. She won't be a god in Touhou because of precise mechanics behind Touhou deities.JingleFloor said:
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The difference between Gods changes in most fiction. Kaguya by herself is NOT a legitament God in the Touhou style outside of being rediciously powerful, something that won't exactly fly in a universe where the Shinto Deities exist and one of the characters casually summons them to do her bidding for attacks. Shes only a Physical God in comparison to the ones who actually obtained Godhood or higher powers in comparison, but, I digress
This is a 1 v 1, no other characters allowed + How sure are you that Yukari and move a planet sized object through that small gap? You do know it has counter effects right? Expansive Truth Seeking Orb erases things it touches
The point I was making was she CAN use her gaps to send others through them. As such, logically, she can do the same to Kaguya. As for the orb, the orb itself wasn't the size of a planet and we never saw Yukari get serious enough to make a moon-sized gap, it needed time to even get close to that size, all the time Yukari would need to remove it before it does anything and dump Kaguya into her own lava or ice, she wouldn't be slow to decide to let her enemy use an attack that'd blow up the world.
NLF And the bones will surely be effective, its hax is on touch to erase something from existance.
Which is why some would think to dodge an easy to recognize projectile. Heck, she even displays hints of 2-D and 3-D as well as matter and anti-matter in-game via Universe of Matter and Antimatter as well as Border Sign "Boundary of 2D and 3D"
Well, teleporting out of KAGUYA's dimension is only possible if a character can do cross-dimension teleportation.
Which Yukari is capable of doing. Her, Reimu, and Miko all know how to go through dimensions, the latter most creating her own for example.
This is a 1 v 1, no other characters allowed + How sure are you that Yukari and move a planet sized object through that small gap? You do know it has counter effects right? Expansive Truth Seeking Orb erases things it touches
The point I was making was she CAN use her gaps to send others through them. As such, logically, she can do the same to Kaguya. As for the orb, the orb itself wasn't the size of a planet and we never saw Yukari get serious enough to make a moon-sized gap, it needed time to even get close to that size, all the time Yukari would need to remove it before it does anything and dump Kaguya into her own lava or ice, she wouldn't be slow to decide to let her enemy use an attack that'd blow up the world.
NLF And the bones will surely be effective, its hax is on touch to erase something from existance.
Which is why some would think to dodge an easy to recognize projectile. Heck, she even displays hints of 2-D and 3-D as well as matter and anti-matter in-game via Universe of Matter and Antimatter as well as Border Sign "Boundary of 2D and 3D"
Well, teleporting out of KAGUYA's dimension is only possible if a character can do cross-dimension teleportation.
Which Yukari is capable of doing. Her, Reimu, and Miko all know how to go through dimensions, the latter most creating her own for example.
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"As for the orb, the orb itself wasn't the size of a planet and we never saw Yukari get serious enough to make a moon-sized gap, it needed time to even get close to that size,"
Expansive Truth Seeking Orb only takes a few seconds to expand, if Team 7 had time to wait they wouldn't have been in a hurry and state how it grows larger at a pace
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Naruto/Naruto-689/page-8
+ It expands rather large in just a few panels
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Naruto/Naruto-689/page-7
"Yukari would need to remove it before it does anything and dump Kaguya into her own lava or ice, she wouldn't be slow to decide to let her enemy use an attack that'd blow up the world."
Kaguya has conrol of which dimension she wants to go through, so moving her to another one wont help at all
"Which is why some would think to dodge an easy to recognize projectile. Heck, she even displays hints of 2-D and 3-D as well as matter and anti-matter in-game via Universe of Matter and Antimatter as well as Border Sign "Boundary of 2D and 3D"
Truth Seeking balls and ash-killing bones will be flying at Yukari from every direction at the same time the planet would be attack her as well (Kaguya reality warping). Inifnite Tsukiyomi's range is planetary so theres no hiding from that. Kaguya has the upperhand by constantly following Yukari where ever she goes, and even warping her back to her own dimension. Going out of space isnt an option unless Yukari can also breathe in outer space just fine
Expansive Truth Seeking Orb only takes a few seconds to expand, if Team 7 had time to wait they wouldn't have been in a hurry and state how it grows larger at a pace
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Naruto/Naruto-689/page-8
+ It expands rather large in just a few panels
http://eatmanga.com/Manga-Scan/Naruto/Naruto-689/page-7
"Yukari would need to remove it before it does anything and dump Kaguya into her own lava or ice, she wouldn't be slow to decide to let her enemy use an attack that'd blow up the world."
Kaguya has conrol of which dimension she wants to go through, so moving her to another one wont help at all
"Which is why some would think to dodge an easy to recognize projectile. Heck, she even displays hints of 2-D and 3-D as well as matter and anti-matter in-game via Universe of Matter and Antimatter as well as Border Sign "Boundary of 2D and 3D"
Truth Seeking balls and ash-killing bones will be flying at Yukari from every direction at the same time the planet would be attack her as well (Kaguya reality warping). Inifnite Tsukiyomi's range is planetary so theres no hiding from that. Kaguya has the upperhand by constantly following Yukari where ever she goes, and even warping her back to her own dimension. Going out of space isnt an option unless Yukari can also breathe in outer space just fine
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Thats the point. Yukari has ways to use her gaps for defense and even enough barriers to just deflect the bones and balls. And like I said, her own gaps can be used as a way to escape since shes even hinted to live in them or along the borders (PCB). She can easily get out of the way of every attack, counter them with barriers, and bombard Kaguya with more lasers and danmaku then she can fire bones.
And since Yukari basically created Gensokyo, she is more than capable of her own dimensions, likely far more advanced than even Miko's which has its own moon. Not to mention her borders and gaps would be far more subtle since its always mentioned her targets would never even notice they entered Gensokyo in the first place. Plus, IT, like I said, wouldn't get the chance to activate thanks to Yukari being shown to straight up ignore an ability designed to be akin to illusions and should Kaguya somehow begin to activate it, she would just gap herself to the true moon, something Kaguya would be unaware of and fix it herself. Not to mention since Yukari controls borders of life/death, whats stopping her from making Kaguya a non-issue altogether with that?
And since Yukari basically created Gensokyo, she is more than capable of her own dimensions, likely far more advanced than even Miko's which has its own moon. Not to mention her borders and gaps would be far more subtle since its always mentioned her targets would never even notice they entered Gensokyo in the first place. Plus, IT, like I said, wouldn't get the chance to activate thanks to Yukari being shown to straight up ignore an ability designed to be akin to illusions and should Kaguya somehow begin to activate it, she would just gap herself to the true moon, something Kaguya would be unaware of and fix it herself. Not to mention since Yukari controls borders of life/death, whats stopping her from making Kaguya a non-issue altogether with that?
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^Or controlling the border between Matter and Energy to disintergrate the attack, or the border between 2D and 3D to slice her with the sharpest blade ever create, or just destroy the moon to use in IT with the anti-matter she conjured up in her own gap, or just dive into her mind and make her surrender. This ability is the Swiss Army-Knife of abilities for a reason.
Look, if she got prep, her own intelligent, that could calculate not just the length and width of the Sanzu River, but also it depth easily (not to mention her own ability that could augumented it more, like she did with her own Shinigami), would pretty much make sure Kaguya would lose even before her match begin.
Look, if she got prep, her own intelligent, that could calculate not just the length and width of the Sanzu River, but also it depth easily (not to mention her own ability that could augumented it more, like she did with her own Shinigami), would pretty much make sure Kaguya would lose even before her match begin.
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"She can easily get out of the way of every attack, counter them with barriers, and bombard Kaguya with more lasers and danmaku then she can fire bones."
Its only shown that Yukari can have eight barriers up at a time, and there are so many openings it'll be easy for Kaguya's attack to bypass them. + Since speed is equalized, Yukari will have a hard time dodging the ash-killing bones all the time seeing as how they move a MHS+
Another thing, Kaguya can send them through a open portal at a blind spot where Yukari wont notice.
"Yukari basically created Gensokyo, she is more than capable of her own dimensions, likely far more advanced than even Miko's which has its own moon. Not to mention her borders and gaps would be far more subtle since its always mentioned her targets would never even notice they entered Gensokyo in the first place."
Creating a dimension within Kaguya's dimension only gives Kaguya more power, seeing as how all her dimensions are connected like a lobby. She'll just be layering herself deeper in Kaguya's playhouse
"Plus, IT, like I said, wouldn't get the chance to activate thanks to Yukari being shown to straight up ignore an ability designed to be akin to illusions and should Kaguya somehow begin to activate it, she would just gap herself to the true moon, something Kaguya would be unaware of and fix it herself."
Infinite Tsukiyomi is a high level illusion attack, and can only be deflected with a pair of rinnegan. Yukari gapping to the true moon will just... get her closer to the infinite tsukiyomi. But if your saying she'd go to another dimension with another moon, how sure are you that she can breathe in outer space?
You speak of Kaguya like she's dumb witted and has no train of thought. The only reason why she seems like that is because her will, which is basically her kept suggesting things while she was at a very emotional state. She was smart enough to notice her sons would try to take her on before hand and fight the both of them on her own.
"Not to mention since Yukari controls borders of life/death, whats stopping her from making Kaguya a non-issue altogether with that?"
Because Kaguya is an immortal god and tailed beasts never die.
Its only shown that Yukari can have eight barriers up at a time, and there are so many openings it'll be easy for Kaguya's attack to bypass them. + Since speed is equalized, Yukari will have a hard time dodging the ash-killing bones all the time seeing as how they move a MHS+
Another thing, Kaguya can send them through a open portal at a blind spot where Yukari wont notice.
"Yukari basically created Gensokyo, she is more than capable of her own dimensions, likely far more advanced than even Miko's which has its own moon. Not to mention her borders and gaps would be far more subtle since its always mentioned her targets would never even notice they entered Gensokyo in the first place."
Creating a dimension within Kaguya's dimension only gives Kaguya more power, seeing as how all her dimensions are connected like a lobby. She'll just be layering herself deeper in Kaguya's playhouse
"Plus, IT, like I said, wouldn't get the chance to activate thanks to Yukari being shown to straight up ignore an ability designed to be akin to illusions and should Kaguya somehow begin to activate it, she would just gap herself to the true moon, something Kaguya would be unaware of and fix it herself."
Infinite Tsukiyomi is a high level illusion attack, and can only be deflected with a pair of rinnegan. Yukari gapping to the true moon will just... get her closer to the infinite tsukiyomi. But if your saying she'd go to another dimension with another moon, how sure are you that she can breathe in outer space?
You speak of Kaguya like she's dumb witted and has no train of thought. The only reason why she seems like that is because her will, which is basically her kept suggesting things while she was at a very emotional state. She was smart enough to notice her sons would try to take her on before hand and fight the both of them on her own.
"Not to mention since Yukari controls borders of life/death, whats stopping her from making Kaguya a non-issue altogether with that?"
Because Kaguya is an immortal god and tailed beasts never die.
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"^Or controlling the border between Matter and Energy to disintergrate the attack, or the border between 2D and 3D to slice her with the sharpest blade ever create, or just destroy the moon to use in IT with the anti-matter she conjured up in her own gap, or just dive into her mind and make her surrender. This ability is the Swiss Army-Knife of abilities for a reason."
How sure of you Yukari's control of borders can keep up with the speed of Kaguya's attacks? + Truth seeking balls have negation effects of their own, eradicating anything it touches on command.
2) Slicing Kaguya with "the sharpest blade ever" isnt going to do much, Kaguya has immortality type 1 and 3 Regenerationn.
3) Kaguya can creathe another moon her self or warp Yukari to another dimension. Kaguya's chakra pool is incredibly high, and it'd take Yukair tons of energy to destroy something the size of a moon. Either way Yukari is calc'd at multi continent, she doesnt have enough power to bust a moon.
4) Kaguya has high resistance to mind hax, Rinne sharingan + being a tailed beast = no falling for that stuff.
5) There's no prep time with this battle, and Yukari waiting to think about things just gives Kaguya freedom to do what she pleases as Yukari overthinks the situation.
The thing about Yukari being overly smart isn't showing anything impressive compared to Kaguya. Regular humans can think of a flank attack and calculate the size of rivers.
How sure of you Yukari's control of borders can keep up with the speed of Kaguya's attacks? + Truth seeking balls have negation effects of their own, eradicating anything it touches on command.
2) Slicing Kaguya with "the sharpest blade ever" isnt going to do much, Kaguya has immortality type 1 and 3 Regenerationn.
3) Kaguya can creathe another moon her self or warp Yukari to another dimension. Kaguya's chakra pool is incredibly high, and it'd take Yukair tons of energy to destroy something the size of a moon. Either way Yukari is calc'd at multi continent, she doesnt have enough power to bust a moon.
4) Kaguya has high resistance to mind hax, Rinne sharingan + being a tailed beast = no falling for that stuff.
5) There's no prep time with this battle, and Yukari waiting to think about things just gives Kaguya freedom to do what she pleases as Yukari overthinks the situation.
The thing about Yukari being overly smart isn't showing anything impressive compared to Kaguya. Regular humans can think of a flank attack and calculate the size of rivers.
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I was gonna make a rude comment about how you actually made me use my phone to debate when it's hard as hell, but I'll just get straight to the point.
You stil didn't deal with the laser issue aside from the PROVE IT PROVE IT IT DOESNT EXIST YOU BETTER HAVE FACTS despite a majority of the cast using lasers, having feats that puts some of them at ftl, and Yukari matching them. Not to mention the plethora of spatial haxx scattered around such as manipulating distance, vampires that can survive under the sun for a short bit and only started burning once they stopped moving instead of while moving, and tengus that can move faster than light which is someone that Yukari and Suika respects.
Basically, speed advantage is on Yukari even with speed equalized due to the plethora of danmaku spam. By the way, if possible kindly stop quoting every line because it just makes your responses clunky and too long.
Fun fact, Yukari can surround herself with a spatial warping duplex barrier and some more on a spellcard. While taking it easy since it's a spell card Hell what's stopping Yukari from porting a nuke into Kaguya's belly while she's talking? Or dark matter for that matter..
That dimension statement.... makes me question just how do you perceive dimensions to work. Kaguya's dimensions are a separate thing entirely...
Statement about the Rinnegan is an NLF. So what if someone can ignore any illussion sees it? Would you claim it'll work anyway cuz lol Rinnegan? Yukari can handle an illussion liike that. And because others have done so in the first place, breathing in space. They went to the moon before, some of the cast and it's no surprise that they would be capable of breathing there because some of them have haxx magic that would grant easy breathing. If a bunch of vampires could make a space travelling rocket, I'm sure Yukari can do that too given prep time.
The statement about her immortality and tailed beasts just makes me laugh. Giving a glance at wiki makes that accurate but jesus that doesn't make them freaking mystic gods that are praised by many. How did this even get into this topic? Either way Yukari can just BFR to dark matter, which she needs a damn high range to gain access to, or
Also even without prep time Yukari has a solid chance of trumping Kaguya. If she could trick intelligent centuries or millenia old aliens, she can do this again against someone who only made a gambit. This isn't even fair.
Either way this is hard to type on mobile so I leave it to everyone else.
You stil didn't deal with the laser issue aside from the PROVE IT PROVE IT IT DOESNT EXIST YOU BETTER HAVE FACTS despite a majority of the cast using lasers, having feats that puts some of them at ftl, and Yukari matching them. Not to mention the plethora of spatial haxx scattered around such as manipulating distance, vampires that can survive under the sun for a short bit and only started burning once they stopped moving instead of while moving, and tengus that can move faster than light which is someone that Yukari and Suika respects.
Basically, speed advantage is on Yukari even with speed equalized due to the plethora of danmaku spam. By the way, if possible kindly stop quoting every line because it just makes your responses clunky and too long.
Fun fact, Yukari can surround herself with a spatial warping duplex barrier and some more on a spellcard. While taking it easy since it's a spell card Hell what's stopping Yukari from porting a nuke into Kaguya's belly while she's talking? Or dark matter for that matter..
That dimension statement.... makes me question just how do you perceive dimensions to work. Kaguya's dimensions are a separate thing entirely...
Statement about the Rinnegan is an NLF. So what if someone can ignore any illussion sees it? Would you claim it'll work anyway cuz lol Rinnegan? Yukari can handle an illussion liike that. And because others have done so in the first place, breathing in space. They went to the moon before, some of the cast and it's no surprise that they would be capable of breathing there because some of them have haxx magic that would grant easy breathing. If a bunch of vampires could make a space travelling rocket, I'm sure Yukari can do that too given prep time.
The statement about her immortality and tailed beasts just makes me laugh. Giving a glance at wiki makes that accurate but jesus that doesn't make them freaking mystic gods that are praised by many. How did this even get into this topic? Either way Yukari can just BFR to dark matter, which she needs a damn high range to gain access to, or
Also even without prep time Yukari has a solid chance of trumping Kaguya. If she could trick intelligent centuries or millenia old aliens, she can do this again against someone who only made a gambit. This isn't even fair.
Either way this is hard to type on mobile so I leave it to everyone else.
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And fun fact... Kaguya isn't being portrayed as dumb. Just lesser compared to Yukari who's been around for much longer and has been doing more feats.
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Triple Post. Then again I'm not the only one doing this am I? Another fun fact, Sanzu River was deemed nearly impossible or at least immensely difficult to calculate seeing as it's based off of sins, is different for each person, width and depth changes all the time.
Maybe you should try to research your opponent? Just a word of advice...
Maybe you should try to research your opponent? Just a word of advice...
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I'm not reading much of her either too though.
But yeah, Yukari's Boundary isn't some physical thing that would disappear with a touch. What she control is, literally and metaphorically, the boundary that seperate and define every single concept of the universe. Unless your Kaguya could obiterate even it own border of attack, it's not extemp from her manipulation. Also, about the Moon thing, why it's true that you need alot of energy for that, you only need a miniscule amount of Antimatter (about a kg or so) to do the job, and it's something she could easily conjured alot of it with a flick of her hand.
Still want to said more about it, but I need to sleep.
Edit: Soooo wrong about the moon thing, turnout you could still need a ton of it (like 1e+13). Make me wonder how that mouse from Ansatsu could do it...
But yeah, Yukari's Boundary isn't some physical thing that would disappear with a touch. What she control is, literally and metaphorically, the boundary that seperate and define every single concept of the universe. Unless your Kaguya could obiterate even it own border of attack, it's not extemp from her manipulation. Also, about the Moon thing, why it's true that you need alot of energy for that, you only need a miniscule amount of Antimatter (about a kg or so) to do the job, and it's something she could easily conjured alot of it with a flick of her hand.
Still want to said more about it, but I need to sleep.
Edit: Soooo wrong about the moon thing, turnout you could still need a ton of it (like 1e+13). Make me wonder how that mouse from Ansatsu could do it...
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Kaguya can become one with the landscape to tank the laser hits, or even in her regular form she'd just regenerate her body parts back. (Taking a lot of hits sure, but Yukari can only fire so many)CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
Yukair has speed but Kaguya has range and AP + Regenerationn. Yukari's attacks are things that Kaguya can either A) Avoid or B) Regenerate from
A nuke isn't going to kill of Kaguya, she has small planet durability + Regenerationn. Madara, Obito and Kaguya have shown to implode while still keeping the body from ripping apart
http://www5.narutoget.io/manga/read/naruto/640/6
http://www5.narutoget.io/manga/read/naruto/679/11
http://www5.narutoget.io/manga/read/naruto/689/6
I'll drop the dimension statement I made
As for the rinnegan thing, It could be backed up and not labeled as NLF. Jutsu in the naruto would have counters to each other, its hard to confirm whether other uses of countering from other verses would work the same though. Its stated by characters that the ONLY counter to Infinite Tsukiyomi is another pair of rinnegan.
As for the breathing in space statement, you can't say that just because character A can breathe in space, everyone else can. If Yukari has a feat showing so or some easy scale then sure. Also I'd like to know if its ACTUAL outer space or on of those Touhou dimensions that have the battlefield fixed for the users benefit ( If theres no easy-scale to Yukari)
As for the god subject, the thing is that 1) Kaguya IS worshipped by many and 2) She has spiritual and phyiscal power.
Naruto verse has tons of things from mythology and shintoism, and Kaguya is one of them. Spiritual beings definitely exist in the Naruto verse for example: deamn seal thing hokages have. + Kaguya has yin and yang releases which = physical and spiritual.
I see that a lot of you guys are really on Yukari's smarts to define why she'd have an upperhand but litterally Kaguya counters tons of things you've been throwing at her.
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The truth seeking balls may be able to be an effective counte to Yukari's barriers. Not only does it hit on a physical level, but there was a discussion on it being spiritual as well. In total, the discussion was about if it was physical, spiritual, AND astral. The discussion was never concluded though.Andykhang said:
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The main reason intel plays a huge factor is because thats what Yukari is known for, a Sage of Youkai when Kaguya was constantly outsmarted by two teenagers, their teacher, and someone Zetsu had manipulated like a puppet despite being a supposed genius. I'm not saying Kaguya's an idiot (nobody is really), but in comparison, adding in prep time, shes not winning this. Add in the danmaku's sheer range, Yukari's own cunning (1000 complex variables a second for one), even to the point she managed to rival the immortal whose possibly the Goddess of Knowledge, the fact she ALWAYS HOLDS BACK in-canon since the franchise shes from makes it so theres a balance and fair chance for everyone (note the AT LEAST high 6-A) to the point that by the end of LoLK, which could've had the potential of having every living being killed, Yukari was hinted to not be even the slightest bit concerned, even to where shes often hinted to be far higher than her current stat.
As for the breathing in space, its even stated she did go to the Lunarian Base at one point in history for a war. Also, by the logic you're giving for Kaguya's rinnigan, it'd be like saying Kratos can solo SMT because he slayed the Greek Gods, yet saying Yukari's boundaries are somehow a NLF as well seems a bit strecthing it.
Also, considering what anti-matter would do, Yukari can just allow that to occur at any point, lets say she creates a gap inside of Kaguya's brain, the same gaps that are subtle enough to trick people into not being aware they walked into a new dimension, and say that gap starts to leak antimatter or magma. Not to mention each gap she makes on the outside will easily counter every bone with its own danmaku, every barrier she makes can protect her and give her a heads up, and each dimension hop lets her toy around with Kaguya to where even if Kaguya can "somehow" merge with the enviornment (which she hasn't done unless you count succumbing to her own gravity trap), Yukari can easily play the long game and wait until Kaguya gets too exhausted (limitless > extremely high) before finishing her long before she tries to Vegeta a planet.
As for the breathing in space, its even stated she did go to the Lunarian Base at one point in history for a war. Also, by the logic you're giving for Kaguya's rinnigan, it'd be like saying Kratos can solo SMT because he slayed the Greek Gods, yet saying Yukari's boundaries are somehow a NLF as well seems a bit strecthing it.
Also, considering what anti-matter would do, Yukari can just allow that to occur at any point, lets say she creates a gap inside of Kaguya's brain, the same gaps that are subtle enough to trick people into not being aware they walked into a new dimension, and say that gap starts to leak antimatter or magma. Not to mention each gap she makes on the outside will easily counter every bone with its own danmaku, every barrier she makes can protect her and give her a heads up, and each dimension hop lets her toy around with Kaguya to where even if Kaguya can "somehow" merge with the enviornment (which she hasn't done unless you count succumbing to her own gravity trap), Yukari can easily play the long game and wait until Kaguya gets too exhausted (limitless > extremely high) before finishing her long before she tries to Vegeta a planet.
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@COB
We actualy knew the limit of Yukari's illusion resistance. Entire Lunar capital protected via powerful illusion and hid the True Moon. The only character of the cast who managed to see through that was Alice Margatroid with her Phantom Vision Power.
@ JingleFloor
Boundary manipulation is something beyond physical and spitiual. It's what it says - border manipulation. Something very close to AT-Fields from EVA - something that define specific existance. And those barriers are... Made via that power. Though it has its limits. If we can believe small bits of info... Celestials, Lunarians and Deites can overwhelm Yukari (but there is high chance that they just posses even more crazy hax abilities).
We actualy knew the limit of Yukari's illusion resistance. Entire Lunar capital protected via powerful illusion and hid the True Moon. The only character of the cast who managed to see through that was Alice Margatroid with her Phantom Vision Power.
@ JingleFloor
Boundary manipulation is something beyond physical and spitiual. It's what it says - border manipulation. Something very close to AT-Fields from EVA - something that define specific existance. And those barriers are... Made via that power. Though it has its limits. If we can believe small bits of info... Celestials, Lunarians and Deites can overwhelm Yukari (but there is high chance that they just posses even more crazy hax abilities).
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I see Jingles is still quoting messages despite being told not to....
And huh I guess the Lunar Capital is that powerful. If we scale off of Alice's grimoire, I think that's where that ability stems for, would that mean the lunar illussion is that strong if it could trick everyone that wasn't the lunarians?
And huh I guess the Lunar Capital is that powerful. If we scale off of Alice's grimoire, I think that's where that ability stems for, would that mean the lunar illussion is that strong if it could trick everyone that wasn't the lunarians?
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As far I understand... Lunarians erected massive illusion after Appolo missions. Still it is possible to travel to the True Moon since illusion do not prevent from entrance (but there were probably specific anti-certain youkai effects).CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
As for Alice. It was never described where she got such funny power but her Grimoire was still sealed.
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Nope... It works as intended. As long as there is no infiltrator. She wasn't able to gap after the First Lunar War.Andykhang said:
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^Not really though. She and Ran have been coming to the moon in every full moon for awhile now. She even stated that it's simply going to take too much time to infiltrate into the capital itself, and only take time to dismantle the barrier in the event of SSiB.
And to be honest, she does do so to let Yuyuko and Youmu come into the Lunar Capital
And to be honest, she does do so to let Yuyuko and Youmu come into the Lunar Capital
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I understood that before IN Yukari lost ability to travel to the Moon because she didn't have enough info about it. She probably gained intel from Eintei though. After all there is semi-protected path which was unknown to youkais.Andykhang said:
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