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The Messenger CRT

The_Smashor

The_Smashor

15,665
11,381
What the title says. Also this and this is important. If I don't link something it's from this.

AP
This calc is waiting for approval (Mostly because people don't quite know if this is a thing that can be done or not). Also, the same totem was preventing a Volcanic Eruption. Either way, Tier 7. EDIT: It's been approved.

Also, it's not ED (Well, it kind of is, but it's the kind that can scale to AP), as the Totem is a fairly weak boss canonically and is likely using Magic for this, which should be far below characters like Barma'thazël, The Demon King and Phantom's magic.

Abilities
The Messenger should get Time Travel and Purification (Type 2) with the Magic Firefly

Statistics Amplification with "THE DEAL" (At the cost of his Immortality)

Immortality (Type 4) alongside his existing Type 8 since Quarble basically brings him back over and over again

Extrasensory Perception with The Scroll. It allows him to see Time Shards and Time Rifts, and also lets him sense time magic and automatically going with others who Travel Through time (though this one in paticular is something else). All of this is from the Discord lore hints and the Q&As

Speed
Now, this is a tricky one. In lore, Greed Demons live outside of time, and as such would have Infinite speed. This is backed up by Quarble asking if the two of you had met yet from your perspective. But, Greed Demons are also the same as Demonkind, as in they are Demons and as such, it would make sense for other demons to scale to them. The Messenger and the Bluehoods are able to move in a void which is completely outside of time and is also the end of time itself. There's one small anti-feat for this.

Quarble can move when the game is paused while nobody else can, but this is likely just a 4th wall break and/or an oversight as everything else is much more consistant.

Basically, everyone likely has Infinite Speed or at least Infinite Reactions (Likley the latter as some characters are considered to have faster Movement Speed then others) with the acception of pre-scroll Ninja and maybe some fodder.

Other
The page name should be changed to "Ninja (The Messanger)" as the developers and characters usually just call him Ninja, and he's not the only Messanger.

According the the Q&A, if The Messanger is seperated from the scroll he'll be forced to return to the void.
 
Thanks. Basically, comments wern't working for me so I checked to see if I could post the thread.

I could.
 
When I first made this page. Infinite speed got removed. I do think it's right. But just a heads up there

Everything else is good too
 
I see. I'll just leave it in the general request thread.

Since The Messenger isn't a very popular verse, this is alright to add, right?
 
Ehh no. These abilties and such while not super major, have some decent hacks, so need a discussion mod. But I'll find one when I can.
 
Has the calculation been evaluated and accepted yet?

The new abilities are probably fine.

Infinite speed is usually discounted if it is not very reliable and if it contradicts the general portrayals for the characters. See here: Timeless Voids Standards
 
My calc has been accepted. I also used Bambu's calc, which was also accepted.

The void is considered timeless by the developers and several characters and is also described as the "End of time".

While the characters who traverse it (The Blue Hoods and Messengers) aren't described as "beyond time", Greed Demons are. Greed Demons are just another class of demon, who you fight throughout the game constantly. It doesn't make sense for the Demon King to be infinitely slower than basically fodder.

A possible reason for the Messenger and Blue Cloaks getting the ability to have infinite speed is that the Scroll, when picked up, connects the user to The Void, and if they loose the scroll they are forced to go back to the void automatically. This is from the second link I posted, the Q&A videos. Specifically a transcription of them.
 
Infinite speed still has to be consistent with the portrayals of the characters in order to count. Simply moving in a timeless void is not remotely enough in itself.

The same goes for characters supposedly beyond time. If they do not display any such properties, we cannot apply infinite or immeasurable speeds to them.
 
Well what are some properties of Infinte Speed characters? All the enemies are Demons who would have infinite speed, theoretically.

The only anti-feats I can think of is that Ninja can talk to some non-infinite speed NPCs and a few stage hazards.
 
Infinite speed means moving any finite distance instantly or moving an infinite distance within a measurable timespan.
 
I mean, if another infinite speed character tried to prevent the infinite speed character from reaching their destination, then it would take longer by the infite speed character's perspective. If everyone has infinite speed, then it would seem like nobody does from the perspective of the infinite speed characters.
 
It still needs to be demonstrated/proven in some manner.
 
Is that just a 4th wall gag, or a legitimate plot point?
 
In all honestly, it might just be an oversight from the developers.

Quarble does question if you've met yet from your perspective, however. Still, if there is Infinite speed it would probably only be for Quarble and other Greed Demons. There are some characters who are noted to be faster than others, too.
 
Yeah, but it's not like when you move the background stops moving or anything like that. Things still seem to take time. The Tower of Time does seem to make sure it's inhabitants can live, so maybe it generates time and/or lets the Blue Hoods move in the void?
 
Anyway, since infinite speed has been rejected, is there anything left to do in this thread, or should we close it?
 
AP is wrong.

The High 7-C calc was done while significantly amped by doing the thing, the Low 7-B thing is Environmental Destruction.
 
Ninja fought three other people doing the thing, two of which where in this doing the of thing. Ninja shouldn't be stupidly above the Blue Cloaks, espesially since they where also messangers at some point.

The Low 7-B thing is under the same boat as D&D Storm feats, as it's likely via magic. Characters like Barma'thazël, The Demon King and Phantom should be far above said magic.
 
1. They all did the thing collectively. So that doesn't matter if he fought one other member who did it.

2. "Likely via magic" isn't the same thing. We have explicit statements for D&D. We do not have here. So no. No to this.
 
1. He fought three different people doing the thing, I mean. You know. The Tower of Time boss? Canonically, the Tower of Time is to test a messanger. According to lore dumps, Quarble canonically dosn't ressurect the Messanger in the Tower of Time challange. As in, they where probably trying to actually kill him to make sure he was strong enough to do this.

2. That's what the likely thing is for, because it's likely magic. What else could it be in this verse where Magic is basically the only source of supernatural powers?
 
Well, if Bambu rejects the calculation, we cannot use it.
 
He isn't rejecting the calc, he's rejecting how applicable it is to AP. Heck, he made the High 7-C calc himself.
 
1. Doing the Thing is a special ability that required literally all of them to perform. It doesn't scale to individuals at all. I don't care how you slice it.

2. But you can't prove it. So no. It doesn't scale unless proven otherwise. Even by saying it's magic, that doesn't guarantee scaling to physicals. In the D&D example, aside from being concrete, it takes the exact same level of power to do as other spells. So this doesn't match that.
 
1. Ninja. Literally. Fought. People. Doing. The. Thing. Did you even play the game you made a calc on?

2. Yeah, but if it does scale to magic, The Messanger can tank magical attacks from bosses. But fine, if you insist, Ninja won't get a Low 7-B key. The High 7-C is still valid, however.
 
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