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This was a topic that was brought up off-wiki between Agnaa, Hotsauce, and me back when I reassigned Weather Report's passive Mind Manipulation into passive Social Influencing. I argued that Mind Manipulation Resistance won't stop Social Influencing from working. Agnaa and Hotsauce disagreed. We had a debate for a while and I conceded at the end.
Since then the issue has just been left alone, but there are still people that believe the contrary and it irks me that we still don't have a solid understanding of what social influencing actually is. So today, I've brought up some arguments going for and against social influencing being mind manip. The goal of this thread would be to put this topic to rest and maybe see if we do in fact need a social influencing page in the first place.
Arguments Against Mind Manip Resistance Working
1) Social influencing isn't a direct manipulation of the mind and resistance against mind manip does nothing against it.
2) Social influencing is a suggestion, and suggestions are not by definition something that forces another person to do something. For example, if I convince you to buy a cheeseburger even though you're full, the choice is entirely up to you to buy said cheeseburger. But if I have enough skill I can convince you to buy the cheeseburger and you will through your own volition.
3) Mind manip by definition is "you forcing your way into someone's mind and messing with it as you please", whereas "Social Influencing is not you messing with his mind. It's his own mind that is doing all the changes. So it is him affecting his own mind. You're not affecting his mind like mind manip would".
Arguments For Mind Manip Resistance Working
1) Social influencing is mind manip because it's simply another mechanic to achieve the same goal.
2) Social influencing in fiction is inherently supernatural and we should treat all extreme forms of it as such. Some examples would include the aforementioned Weather Report, as well as Eurus Holmes, James Bond (Composite), and many others. As such the only other hax it would fall under would be mind manip.
There are more arguments, but I can't list them off the top of my head. As the thread goes on, I'll list any more arguments in the OP, but for now, we shall go on with what we have.
Since then the issue has just been left alone, but there are still people that believe the contrary and it irks me that we still don't have a solid understanding of what social influencing actually is. So today, I've brought up some arguments going for and against social influencing being mind manip. The goal of this thread would be to put this topic to rest and maybe see if we do in fact need a social influencing page in the first place.
Arguments Against Mind Manip Resistance Working
1) Social influencing isn't a direct manipulation of the mind and resistance against mind manip does nothing against it.
2) Social influencing is a suggestion, and suggestions are not by definition something that forces another person to do something. For example, if I convince you to buy a cheeseburger even though you're full, the choice is entirely up to you to buy said cheeseburger. But if I have enough skill I can convince you to buy the cheeseburger and you will through your own volition.
3) Mind manip by definition is "you forcing your way into someone's mind and messing with it as you please", whereas "Social Influencing is not you messing with his mind. It's his own mind that is doing all the changes. So it is him affecting his own mind. You're not affecting his mind like mind manip would".
Arguments For Mind Manip Resistance Working
1) Social influencing is mind manip because it's simply another mechanic to achieve the same goal.
2) Social influencing in fiction is inherently supernatural and we should treat all extreme forms of it as such. Some examples would include the aforementioned Weather Report, as well as Eurus Holmes, James Bond (Composite), and many others. As such the only other hax it would fall under would be mind manip.
There are more arguments, but I can't list them off the top of my head. As the thread goes on, I'll list any more arguments in the OP, but for now, we shall go on with what we have.