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Scion vs Yhwach

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the high 4-C scion ?

he doesn't have resistance to soul manip ( but does he need a soul to survive?) but have immortality type 9 wich will make things complicated for yhwach. scion will have trouble with low godly regen yhwach too.

yhwach can't power null him because scion resist precog but scion can powernull yhwach with stilling except The Miracle wich resist power null( and maybe Almighty too ? how does conceptual manip resistance interact with powernull here ?)

on the other hand , scion can't use his own precog wich is his most powerfull ability according to his profile.

in any case , scion either get soul crushed passively and need to let his true selves to pick the fight until they all die passively. i guess yhwach dying multiple times and growing in power with The Miracle and out stamina scion is a win con too if soul crush doesn't work but it's iffy.

as see it ,scion win con is powernull and mind manip would the easiest
 
Scion's precognition can bypass blindspots if Yhwach happens to resist.

Scion can't really get soul manipulated if his true body is inside of a pocket dimension that's locked from interdimensional travel.

As the Warrior Entity Scion also has every canon ability in Worm, which includes weaponized timeloops, attacks that break defenses even when they operate through breaking physics/shifting attacks into other dimensions, various forms of matter erasure and time stopping on a permament basis, and powernull that can bypass powers that resist trump abilities.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Yhwach is resistant to precog of his own level which is nigh-infinite futures.
Click to expand...
Let me rephrase: Scion doesn't need to be able to directly use his precog on Yhwach for it to work. His precog can basically just construct a hypothetical Yhwach without his resistances and predict his actions from there, or predict changes in other objects and items that don't resist precog but would be affected by Yhwach.

The Prince of Counters said:
Yhwach also also still view his own future so this dude is gonna need some crazy good precog Resistance to stop Yhwach's from working.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure how him being exempt from his own power, something fairly common with powers in general, says anything about the strength of his own precog.
 
Wouldn't it be far more likely that his powers allow him to use futuresight on himself by nature rather than "his precog is so powerful it even works on himself"

It's like saying a fire manipulator is resistant to fires because he doesn't burn himself every time he generates a flame.
 
Its like this

>Yhwach can't precog Mimi

>Yhwach absorbs Mimi and gets all his powers

>Yhwach is now able to precog himself despite having Mimi's resistance to precog.
 
Yhwach doesn't get Mimi resistance to precog. Yhwach got Mimi's power that allows him to be able to be resistant to Yhwach's precog.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Yhwach absorbs Mimi and gets all his powers
Click to expand...
Which... would include Mimi's own precog, and the fact that Mimi could use their own precog on themselves too, right?

I still don't see how this translates to his precog being "that powerful".
 
@Dargoo

Ehh I'm not sure how that's going to work out with Yhwach's fate manipulation. He'll pretty much be always a couple steps ahead with his precog which allows him to see thousands of years into it.
 
Path to Victory can account for changes in fate through reading whoever is manipulating it, which could allow Scion to retreat outside of the range of Yhwach's influence.

Looking at Yhwach's profile, though, how would he react to being frozen/shunted through/looped in time with a thought?

Also, Scion having every Stranger ability at once would make any form of detection nigh-impossible, too.
 
Ngl, I have no clue why he has precog. It also doesn't make a difference as Yhwach can use the Almighty on things (like himself) that resist it after absorbing Mimi.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Ngl, I have no clue why he has precog. It also doesn't make a difference as Yhwach can use the Almighty on things (like himself) that resist it after absorbing Mimi.
Click to expand...
It'd seem kind of silly for Mimi's ability to block precognitive abilities even on oneself, as that would just stop their precog from working altogether.

I'd say it's much more likely that the power just allows them to look at their own future instead of their power "being strong enough to bypass their own resistances", unless this is something explained explicitly.
 
Yhwach was not able to see his own future after absorbing Mimihagi that's why Jugram with the Almighty sent the vision where Yhwach was gonna die to him, however, Yhwach misunderstand and took it as a dream/nightmare.

Jugram doesn't have full control over that ability as proven in combat and that's why the vision looked different from reality.

Mimihagi CAN see the future and has resistance to precog.

D82EF984-26C5-4CA0-8568-E4ED45C1E406
 
So, let's take this away from precog for a second.

A) Is Scion's 'real' body in the same dimension as Yhwach at the start of the battle? If not, he's fighting an avatar while Scion's body is inside of a pocket dimension that's protected from interdimensional travel.

B) Is there anything Yhwach can do against being trapped in frozen time/a time loop with a thought?

C) Is there anything Yhwach has that can bypass powers that send harm/attacks into parralel dimensions automatically?
 
A). Beings that fight using avatars and sending them in while their real body is off in X location or dimension are allowed to have their main body outside of the battlefield

B). Something something almighty ovo. But no he shouldn't be able to null that because he has no feats of nulling 4d hax

C). Afaik nothing he has automatically sends attacks into other dimensions unless you count the time his energy flowed into the 3 realms but that's not really an attack, he has the range to reach other dimensions if he tried to though.
 
Paul Frank said:
A). Beings that fight using avatars and sending them in while their real body is off in X location or dimension are allowed to have their main body outside of the battlefield
Click to expand...
It's kind of complicated for Scion, since his High 6-A key is his avatar, while his High 4-C key describes the complete Entity.

That put, as a complete entity Scion would also have the ability to create/control avatars from other dimensions.
 
Ichibei has manipulation over time, Yhwach negated it ( the EE technique that Ichibei used was powered via whatever amount of nights that Ichibei stole from the Soul Society over the years. ) although I'm pretty sure time manipulation isn't a 4-D ability.
 
How would Yhwach negate being stopped in time if he's already frozen to begin with, for starters?
 
Via precog that's passive allowing him to see infinite futures, that are thousands of years into the future and negating it passively. You haven't explained how Scion gets around passive precog, power null and Reactive Evolution along with fate manipulation and instant attacks from the future. Yhwach has already negated a combo of time manipulation and EE from Ichibei.
 
something something Almighty.

Yhwach was erased on a metaphysical level via Ichibe's conceptual manipulation over names and was now known as an Ant. Even though he was affected by it The Almighty wasn't so I guess The Almighty could stop it.
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Via precog that's passive
Click to expand...
Which Scion also has, which Yhwach wouldn't counter due to it working around precognitive blocks.

The Prince of Counters said:
allowing him to see infinite futures, that are thousands of years into the future and negating it passively.
Click to expand...
How would that let him do anything to being frozen in time with a thought?

The Prince of Counters said:
negating it passively.
Click to expand...
When has he passively negated a Time Stop? I don't see any resistances towards time shenanigans on his profile.
 
if it can't get passed his null which is one in the same with his reactive evolution it wouldn't really matter.

1. His eyes show him everything in the far flung future.

2. he understands what he sees.

3. those powers become his ally no longer hurting him.

This occurs in an instant.
 
Yhwach's precog >>> Scion's unless he has feats of being able to view infinite futures that are thousands of years into the future along with bypassing Resistance on this level. You keep arguing that Yhwach gets frozen with a thought depsite having power null that works passively. His hax is going to start taking into effect before anything Scion does unless it's also passive.
 
Time hax is indeed considered 4d by nature from what I've seen

Yhwach negating Ichibe using EE powered by nights he stole is not at all him negating time manip
 
The Prince of Counters said:
Yhwach's precog >>> Scion's
Click to expand...
It's good that Scion can mentally simulate/read Yhwach, which means any predictions that Yhwach runs through Scion would be aware of.

The Prince of Counters said:
You keep arguing that Yhwach gets frozen with a thought depsite having power null that works passively.
Click to expand...
On the contrary, I'm more asking questions on Yhwach and his powers before I make any concrete statements.

Scion also happens to have every Trump power demonstrated in Worm, which also covers passive power nullification and stealing. Which would be valid targets for stilling, too.

Which Sting also happens to bypass, come to think of it.

Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
if it can't get passed his null which is one in the same with his reactive evolution it wouldn't really matter.
Click to expand...
When has this worked on temporal shenanigans, more specifically a time stop?
 
@sigurd

Yes actually stopping time would indeed be 4d to my knowledge although Yhwach never interacted with or nulled time hax
 
It's EE that has been created via time manipulation, its negating the both of them as Yhwach understands the power itself. It's negating both EE and time manipulation since the EE is only granted via time and powered by time. It's not that hard to comprehend Paul. It's even in the profiles, now if you have issues with it feel free to make a CRT. Until then you cant really argue against it.
 
@prince

No that's not how it works. Yhwach is nulling the power(the EE) he isn't nulling the power source (the nights)

Yhwach understanding the power is cool but he still has no feats of nulling something 4d

@sigurd

The difference is water manip is 3d while time manip is 4d so without feats of nulling time stuff saying he can is nlf
 
@Paul

Then via this logic The Almighty is 4-D since it's stated in verse to be superior to all abilities. You don't really think Tessai would have countered The Almight with that kido right xD?
 
There are no feats of it doing that so we can't say it does.

The fight between them never happened, we can't just give Yhwach feats he never had
 
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