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Scion vs Yhwach

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It's quite literally how it works, the technique is packed with time manipulation and EE. Again this is even stated in the profile, stealing the nights from the Soul Society is what causes the victim to become erased and it's apart of the ritual. Yhwach negated the ritual, make a CRT if you disagree because this is in the profile. Whatever Yhwach understands is nulled, do you not know how the Almighty works? Because it seems like you don't. You seem to be forgetting that Yhwach negated the enitre ritual as it failed to effect him, the ritual is time manipulation, EE and Darkness manipulation. Yhwach foresaw this via the Almighty and negated it.
 
Limited Time Manipulation with Futen Taisatsuryō (Using it steals a hundred nights from a hundred years in the Soul Society's future), Existence Erasure with Futen Taisatsuryō (Consumes all the darkness within his opponent, destroying them so utterly they cannot even reincarnate)

The nights are stolen from 100 years in the future as a power source. Yhwach negated the EE nothing at all implies he nulled the stealing of the nights.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
No one has used time stop on him, but no one has ever used water manipulation on him neither.
Click to expand...
If timehax exists in Bleach elsewhere that's a suitable answer for me as well, which seems to have been answered above.

That said, how would he take to this ability being Stilled, given that Stilling should effect the variety of Trump-based abilities in Worm, which covers power nullification/mimicry/stealing, and covers powers that give the user a resistance to such abilities?

And his attacks/powers being redirected into other dimensions is something that hasn't seemed to have been adressed sofar.
 
@Dargoo

Is stilled like a power null? if it is I think power null is compared by feats. Yhwach with a weaker almighty can negate conceptual manipulation type 3. Unless "Stilled" has dome something superior to this i'm not sure if it will effect The Almighty.

Edit- Stilling: Scion's primary power, a golden light that he can use to cancel out any wavelength and that can be used both offensively and defensively. This ability can counteract and manipulate all sorts of energy, and can thus be used to cancel out heat and sound, disintegrate molecular bonds, slow and stop motion on a molecular scale, and disturb electronics. Scion can use it in the form of beams, orbs, bursts of energy, forcefields, and with a touch.

Ehh based off this description i'm not sure it would be able to effect The Almighty since it's nothing like that.

Edit 2- Hmm Yhwach's fate manipulation can prob counter the redirection, but I don't think he can send attacks across dimensions outside of what was stated above with his energy being spread throughout 3 worlds.
 
Oh look, Paul Frank blatantly ignoring things again. How surprising, anyway let's get into the fine details and the basics of the Almighty and how it interacts with Ichibei's Futen Taisatsuryō. What Yhwach did was negate the enitre ritual, not just the EE aspect and Yhwach gives us a cut clear explanation of how he did so when he explained the Almighty to Ichibei. Yhwach explains to Ichibei that the Almighty is the ability to view the future and make anything that he forsees useless against him and turning it to his side. Yhwach was able to view Ichibei's ritual, understand it and Almighty GG it. It's not just the EE, as Paul Frank is spewing atm. That's the equivalent of me saying that instead of negating the power null and concept manipulation from Ichibei he just negated the ink or the Darkness. Doesn't make sense and goes against what we're shown.
 
Except again, it is never even implied in the scene that he nulled the ritual. The ritual was already completed and then the EE didn't work at which point Yhwach went on about the almighty.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Ehh based off this description i'm not sure it would be able to effect The Almighty since it's nothing like that.
Click to expand...
What would The Almighty qualify as, in that case?

And Scion's powers don't just affect physical stuff, it works on time, motion, power-power interactions, precognition, and a bunch of other more abstract stuff.

And I'm not sure how Yhwach's negation working on concepts means it's any less susceptible to being affected by Stilling.
 
... Paul, again you're completely ignoring the mechanics of the Almighty. The Almighty works by foreseeing the future and whatever he sees is then negated. Yhwach awakened the Almighty after Ichibei reduced his power to that of an ant, Yhwach's precog and power null are passive abilities. Yhwach saw the ritual that Ichibei performed and thus it was useless against him. It doesn't need to be implied wherever it's blatantly shown a certain way, and for the record it is implied that Yhwach negated the ritual rather than just the EE. That would be total asinine and being ignorant to the mechanics of the Almighty. This is similar to the time where you genuinely argued that Yhwach doesn't have Fate manipulation despite that being the most blatant power of the Almighty. Yhwach even explains this to Ichibei that the technique is useless against him as he can see the future and whatever he views is turned useless against him. Also Yhwach went on about the Almighty before the ritual and had activated it before the ritual. If you wanna argue against something you should have some knowledge regarding the series especially if you have little to no clue about the mechanics of an ability or how a certain event went down, just for future reference.
 
Seeing this matchup, Im gonna remain neutral for now as both sides have good arguments as to why Yhwach/Scion would win. However, there's one thing that I want to point out and get addressed since its a major factor in this fight. Which is Yhwach's "passive" power null.

And before anyone says it, no, Yhwach having power null at all is no problem, he definitely has it. What is the problem here is it being a passive ability because of Yhwach's explanation of it. Looking back into the manga, there are multiple inconsistencies that go against Yhwach's explanation of it being done passively.
 
Almighty can only negate hax not raw power. Almighty negated Ichibei's ink passively while he had no power, attack potency, durability, speed, hax, memories, etc. Almighty acted on its own.
 
AppleLord said:
Almighty can only negate hax not raw power. Almighty negated Ichibei's ink passively while he had no power, attack potency, durability, speed, hax, memories, etc. Almighty acted on its own.
Click to expand...
This isnt what im talking about, for the most part anyway. Like 1% of my problems with it being passive.
 
Warren Valion said:
How good is Scion's Power Null resistance?
Click to expand...
His powers come from a pocket dimension that's protected from interdimensional travel, and he resists every master effect in Worm.

He also has every master power in Worm, which includes passive abilities that redirect attacks into other dimensions and shunt off powers. So anything Ywatch tries is redirected into some other universe, which probably includes stuff like future sight.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
this again?
Click to expand...
Yes again, because there are new issues that weren't brought up before iirc. And the only reason why im not making a CRT for it is because its not a hax downgrade, just opposing the way it functions in a vs match.
 
i mean yhwatch was very clear that he can null everything pasivelly once his eyes are open so i dont get the problem here.
 
Alright. Im gonna go through them all and give scans for each issue that is an inconsistency.

So according to you guys and Yhwach, the power null is passive because any power that he sees in the future, he understands. And any power that he understands is a power that can't be used to harm him . Like I said before, this is blatant power null. But there are several issues with it being used passively instead of being used as a thought based power:

Ichigo & Renji vs Yhwach
This is the simplest inconsistency that I dont think was brought up before (or if it was, I don't remember). Despite having the Almighty activated, and using it in battle, Ichigo and Renji were never power nulled by Yhwach and both were very capable of going against him, especially Ichigo. Evidence:

-Yhwach seeing into the distant future at all is evidence. He would have seen everything Ichigo and Renji pulled off against him, understood their abilities, and had them nulled before any actual encounters happened. Period. This is especially true in Ichigos case because of Getsuga Tensho and Grand Rey Cero (which i'll show in a bit). If Yhwach is able to see thousands of years into the distant future, he would have had absolutely 0 problems passively nulling any opponent he would've taken on in the future.

-Yhwach actively deciding to pit his sword against Ichigo's new sword . He wouldn't have needed to do this if Ichigo's Zanpakuto was already passively nulled.

-Ichigo successfully using a Gran Rey Cero infused Getsuga Tensho against Yhwach . Also wouldn't have happened if Yhwach passively nulled Ichigo's powers.

-Yhwach actively deciding to break Ichigo's new Bankai . As well as deciding to not only break Renji's Zabimaru , but also break Ichigo's sword again a second time after it was restored, and only particially at that . Same thing with Renji's Zabimaru a 2nd time .

-Yhwach actively breaking all Bankai's in the future and even making it clear he would kill Renji for opposing him. Why would Yhwach need to do this if the Almighty passively nullified an opponents powers? The Bankais would have already been unable to be used to harm him if this were true as he would have seen them in the future and understood them, yet, Yhwach decides to destroy them.

-Ichigo successfully using another Getsuga Tensho on Yhwachafter stabbing him with his sword , and harming and even killing Yhwach to the point that Yhwach needed to rewrite the future to rewrite his death in order to come back . Yhwach blatantly had the Almighty activated and Getsuga Tensho was able to kill him to such a degree. This would've been impossible for Ichigo to pull off if Yhwach's power null was passive.

And this isn't where it ends.

Uryu vs Jugram
Another inconsistency that has problems with the Almighty passively nulling powers. And no, the Almighty isnt any different from Yhwach's when Jugram uses it during his slumber, the almighty is literally just being switched over to Jugram when Yhwach sleeps. As Jugram says, he is a vessle for Yhwach's power during slumber. So the Almighty in Jugram's possession is exactly the same as it is in Yhwach's. Anyways:

Jugram had the Almighty in this point in the manga, and despite having it activated already when confronting Uryu , Jugram didn't power null him with it. In fact, Uryu fights Jugram just fine . And before anyone hits me with the "Jugram doesn't have full control over it like Yhwach does", that's the point. Jugram not having control over it is exactly one of the reasons why the power null isn't passive, but active. Passive abilities are not determined by how much control you have over them as that goes against the point of them being passive in the first place. Passive abilities are used just by having them, thats it. So if the Almighty needs to be properly controlled in order for the power null to be used properly, that would be more reason to think it's active based. And speaking of Uryu...

Uryu's Antithesis
This is the last of what I found and is pretty simple enough.Uryu's Antithesis is canonically implied by Jugram himself to be a power that can oppose Yhwach's Almighty .

See the issue yet? For multiple reasons, Uryu's Antithesis would be a power that Yhwach would clearly know about and understand. So its supposed to be unable to do anything to him because of the power null being passive. Yet, Jugram blatantly says that its possible for it to be used to turn on and oppose Yhwach's Almighty.And Jugram understands how the Almighty works . Why would Jugram even imply something like this when the Antithesis would've long been automatically incapable of doing harm to Yhwach? This, like Ichigo killing Yhwach with Getsuga Tensho, would be impossible unless the power null is not passive based.

That about does it. Just so none of you get confused on what im arguing, Yhwach having power null is fine. Its only the functioning of it that im disagreeing with it. For all the reasons I laid out, it should be active instead of passive.
 
>-Yhwach actively deciding to pit his sword against Ichigo's new sword . He wouldn't have needed to do this if Ichigo's Zanpakuto was already passively nulled.

How does power null stop a goddamn sword, dude?

>-Ichigo successfully using a Gran Rey Cero infused Getsuga Tensho against Yhwach. Also wouldn't have happened if Yhwach passively nulled Ichigo's powers.

Almighty is off.

>-Yhwach actively deciding to break Ichigo's new Bankai . As well as deciding to not only break Renji's Zabimaru , but also break Ichigo's sword again a second timeafter it was restored, and only particially at that . Same thing with Renji's Zabimaru a 2nd time .

This doesn't have to do with Power Null.

>-Yhwach actively breaking all Bankai's in the future and even making it clear he would kill Renji for opposing him. Why would Yhwach need to do this if the Almighty passively nullified an opponents powers? The Bankais would have already been unable to be used to harm him if this were true as he would have seen them in the future and understood them, yet, Yhwach decides to destroy them.

The Bankai breaking isn't the Power Null. The Power Null is what we see happen to Ichibei, the breaking of Bankai is worst against Bleach characters since it breaks the Bankai thus cancelling it's abilities and has reduced the power of it if restored.

>Another inconsistency that has problems with the Almighty passively nulling powers. And no, the Almighty isnt any different from Yhwach's when Jugram uses it during his slumber, the almighty is literally just being switched over to Jugram when Yhwach sleeps. As Jugram says, he is a vessle for Yhwach's power during slumber. So the Almighty in Jugram's possession is exactly the same as it is in Yhwach's. Anyways:

No, you're completely wrong, it's explicitly stated that Jugram's usage of the Almighty is not the same as Yhwach's.

Jugram's faults with it can't be equated to Yhwach's since they're not equal.

>This is the last of what I found and is pretty simple enough.Uryu's Antithesis is canonically implied by Jugram himself to be a power that can oppose Yhwach's Almighty . Yet, Jugram blatantly says that its possible for it to be used to turn on and oppose Yhwach's Almighty.And Jugram understands how the Almighty works . Why would Jugram even imply something like this when the Antithesis would've long been automatically incapable of doing harm to Yhwach?

The Anti-Thesis is the only weakness of the Almighty according to Jugram's words.

Yhwach himself has admitted that Uryu possessed a power that surpassed his own earlier in the arc.

There is no issue with the Anti-Thesis, plus again that Jugram's Almighty is not equal to Yhwach's.
 
i am very sure that the whole renji and ichigo vs Y was aizen KS

also in the beggining of the fight (ichigo vs Y) he had the A off, in that fight was when he used the sword and was hit by grand rey cero so that argument was not the best on your part as he had the A off

as for breaking the bankai for the first time he himself said that he just broke it in the future also there would be nothing to null as ichigo did not use any attack for Y to null.

again Y was under KS that is why ichigo could take him.

also jugo did not have full control of the A even stated by uryu

jugo also states that while it is true that he borrows it when Y has it it is entierly different
 
Ichigo & Renji vs Yhwach

1. I know right, it's not like he fought Ichigo without The Almighty.

2. He also didn't use Almighty here...

3. So he turned it on finally and used his fate manipulation as a demonstration of power and completely broke the Bankai. A Shinigami without his weapon is useless. It's a reoccuring theme with Ichigo to pulled faced with utter despair.

4. He states "All Bankai are already broken in the future, literally chapters before.

5. Wow it's not like his precog and visions were messed with by KS, it's not like he thought Jugram sent him a nightmare that involved his death which he ignored for some reason.

Also another thing you seem to be forgetting is Almighty doesn't stop physical power with his null.

Uryu vs Jugram
1. Did you legit ignore the bit where Jugram mentions he is inexperienced using The Almighty? all he can do with it is barely see the future.

2. This is the same thing as above... you're using some guy who's fodder with the technique in an attempt to say Yhwach can't do something. And no Jugram being fodder with it isn't proof that Almighty is lesser... i'll take the primary user's action over someone else to decide it's full capability. I'm aware of what a passive is, i'm sure you'll show me a scan of Yhwach physically moving when he activated it against Ichibe.

Uryu's Antithesis
1. Okay...? how is this quantifiable he says "it's possible" and doesn't even further clarify upon it.

2. I mean Jugram also states Yhwach has the power of omnipotence and omniscience. This entire last portion is theoretical since we don't know what Uryu is fully capable of.
 
>how does power null stop a goddamn sword, dude?

Easy. Ichigo's Zanpakuto would have lost all of its techniques and would have just been a regular sword. Yhwach has already show to easily defend against what is far far above a regular sword. Without using the Almighty. Power nulling Zangetsu into a regular sword wouldn't have required Yhwach to use his own sword against it.

>Almighty is off.

No, its not. And I figured someone would counter with this. Yhwach started out without having it activated, yes. But he turned it on before Ichigo used Gran Rey Cero Infused Getsuga Tensho on him.

End of Chapter 673, Yhwach's Almighty turns o . End of Chapter 675, Ichigo musters up his quincy and hollow powers . He attacks Yhwach with Gran Rey Cero + Getsuga after this point.

And even if im wrong on this point IMade, you forgot about the 2nd time Ichigo used Getsuga Tensho on Yhwach. Where Yhwach blatantly had the Almighty activated and the attack killed him and forced Yhwach to rewrite his death. How do you explain this?

>This doesn't have to do with Power Null.

See my first point. It does.

>The Bankai breaking isn't the Power Null. The Power Null is what we see happen to Ichibei, the breaking of Bankai is worst against Bleach characters since it breaks the Bankai thus cancelling it's abilities and has reduced the power of it if restored.

I know its not the power null. That isnt my point. What my point here is that Yhwach wouldnt have had to break them in the first place if he already passively power nulled them because they would have already been incapable of harming him. He wouldnt need to destroy them, yet he did.

>No, you're completely wrong, it's explicitly stated that Jugram's usage of the Almighty is not the same as Yhwach's.

A power being used differently =/= its an entirely different power. And this is because Jugram doesnt have full mastery over it like Yhwach does. That doesn't make the power itself different. It is still the same power to see into the future, shape it, etc. He just doesnt use it to the same extent as Yhwach can. Him using it less effectively doesnt defeat my point about the passive null.

Besides, Jugram himself explicitly says the Almighty is switched over to him when Yhwach sleeps. Im pretty sure someone who fully understands the ability and has possessed the ability before as the vessle for Yhwach's power would have pretty good credibility.

>The Anti-Thesis is the only weakness of the Almighty according to Jugram's words. Yhwach himself has admitted that Uryu possessed a power that surpassed his own earlier in the arc

So....it aligns with my point then. Unless Yhwach is incapable of power nulling something beyond his power, which means you'd have to make a choice. Either the null isnt passive, or it can't null something superior to Yhwach, which is what your saying the Antithesis is.
 
I'll just stay on the sidelines here unless someone has questions about Scion.
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
he activated the A AFTER ichigo used bankai he did not have it on before gran rey cero
Click to expand...
Then what is Yhwach doing here? The eyes on his body usually appear to signify him activating the Almighty and Yhwach here says he wants to show Ichigo what he's capable of.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
he activated the A AFTER ichigo used bankai he did not have it on before gran rey cero
Click to expand...
Then what is Yhwach doing here? The eyes on his body usually appear to signify him activating the Almighty and Yhwach here says he wants to show Ichigo what he's capable of.
Click to expand...
"what are you talking about you can see it all dont you" "i am not using my power" yea.....using the A...

he turns the A on in chapter 677
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
"what are you talking about you can see it all dont you" "i am not using my power" yea.....using the A...
Click to expand...
Yhwach said this at the beginning of the chapter when Ichigo and Orihime arrived. What I linked to you happens at the end of the chapter.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
"what are you talking about you can see it all dont you" "i am not using my power" yea.....using the A...
Click to expand...
Yhwach said this at the beginning of the chapter when Ichigo and Orihime arrived. What I linked to you happens at the end of the chapter.
Click to expand...
either you are just trolling me and i fell for it or you really did not know he turn it on in chapter 677 after he breaks the gran rey getsuga and blocks one of ichigo's attack that is when he turns the A on
 
If your saying he turned it on in a later chapter, then again, please tell me what he is doing here after he and Ichigo started fighting already?
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
i am sure you can see that he is attacking using his darkness so i dont know what you need an explanation of.
Click to expand...
Whenever Yhwach activates his Almighty, the eys on his body start to appear. That is whats happening in the scan I linked to you. Which is why I asked what it was if it wasn't him using A.
 
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