Jinsye
She/Her- 10,463
- 1,587
I still get bad memories from looking at Lavos's profile but I'm fairly sure this must be done now with the revisions.
Speed =
Who wins?
2-A ofc
Lavos: 0
Madoka Kaname: 0
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Lavos vs. Madoka
- Thread starter Jinsye
- Start date
- Status
I still get bad memories from looking at Lavos's profile but I'm fairly sure this must be done now with the revisions.
Speed =
Who wins?
2-A ofc
Lavos: 0
Madoka Kaname: 0
- 8,377
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Irrelevant to this thread , but a good chunk of those losses or inconc are bound for removal regardless of this. Just doesn't concern me so I left that for those up to date with profiles.
Still, example: Unicron loss for one is something that never really made sense - the argument was "Lavos can't do jack to his abstract form so Unicron wins", which was textbook definition of "No wincon" -> "Stomp" yet was added anyways.
Still, example: Unicron loss for one is something that never really made sense - the argument was "Lavos can't do jack to his abstract form so Unicron wins", which was textbook definition of "No wincon" -> "Stomp" yet was added anyways.
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^That shit is practically ignored in tier 2 I noticed.
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Eh. May as well say a few things: Madoka's one thing an individual Lavos has no counter to now is Law.
With the current revisions and the Type 2 addition, Lavos' Mid-Godly is on a conceptual lvl - aka allows it to come back from her erasure. Falling in line with this, also note that the TD + the entire verse had to be affected for it to stay down permanently (which at this point perfectly ties with how High-Godly regen is past its capabilities).
Unless she got some massive boosts in her standing at 2-A ever since I left, this Lavos' hax scales to the CC + Lavos, and is listed as at Least 2-A even if we entirely discard how said hax may be outright High 2-A for thread convenience.
Madoka on the other hand can now be affected since, quoting Kaltias from the M vs Sonic thread, type 2 CM is enough to affect or bypass her level of survivability and permanently put down.
I'm not saying she can't pull something to win here but I'm personally very doubtful of that happening before she dies or gets nommed by Absorption or hax in general at a superior scale... And did I mention dupes?
Last but not least, you cannot say resistance nopes something of a higher output than your own, lest we would have the dreaded NLF case of people who resist molecular manip noping someone who suddenly affects their atoms because both fall under matter.
So just count me for Lavos on this one despite me originally thinking this would sound less decisive than it's looking like to me atm.
I may of course be wrong since I'm not as up to date with all the debating matters and kind of "rusty" (IRL is a fun thing) nowadays, so feel free to correct me on that if that is the case.
With the current revisions and the Type 2 addition, Lavos' Mid-Godly is on a conceptual lvl - aka allows it to come back from her erasure. Falling in line with this, also note that the TD + the entire verse had to be affected for it to stay down permanently (which at this point perfectly ties with how High-Godly regen is past its capabilities).
Unless she got some massive boosts in her standing at 2-A ever since I left, this Lavos' hax scales to the CC + Lavos, and is listed as at Least 2-A even if we entirely discard how said hax may be outright High 2-A for thread convenience.
Madoka on the other hand can now be affected since, quoting Kaltias from the M vs Sonic thread, type 2 CM is enough to affect or bypass her level of survivability and permanently put down.
I'm not saying she can't pull something to win here but I'm personally very doubtful of that happening before she dies or gets nommed by Absorption or hax in general at a superior scale... And did I mention dupes?
Last but not least, you cannot say resistance nopes something of a higher output than your own, lest we would have the dreaded NLF case of people who resist molecular manip noping someone who suddenly affects their atoms because both fall under matter.
So just count me for Lavos on this one despite me originally thinking this would sound less decisive than it's looking like to me atm.
I may of course be wrong since I'm not as up to date with all the debating matters and kind of "rusty" (IRL is a fun thing) nowadays, so feel free to correct me on that if that is the case.
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According to keikaku
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Personally I dislike this match-up. Via the simple fact that "Lavos' would-be supporter" prefers Madoka.
You just look at the previous thread and you'll see how fast I was first to vote her and settle the deal. Me voting otherwise is the same case that would make me say "I think Demi-fiend wins" if they fought. I couldn't care less about the guy by comparison but then profiles happen.
You just look at the previous thread and you'll see how fast I was first to vote her and settle the deal. Me voting otherwise is the same case that would make me say "I think Demi-fiend wins" if they fought. I couldn't care less about the guy by comparison but then profiles happen.
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Actually I have a very odd story with this match-up. The first one that was made, waaaaaaaay back when, I also ended up leading to Madoka win (know Kaltias from there) even though it could have ended as Incon - at the time, Lavos' first loss.
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that why i personally don't like tier 2+ match-upFateAlbane said:
Not-strong characters battle are better imo
@Fato
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Just like Gilgamesh and Yukari. Imagine if that happens again when upgrades there go through?
...The funny thing is that I see Lavos winning this decisively but still proceeds to get stomped by Homura anyways because of her high level insta-Mind Haxxorz.
...The funny thing is that I see Lavos winning this decisively but still proceeds to get stomped by Homura anyways because of her high level insta-Mind Haxxorz.
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...Alrighty... So now I just caught news that Madoka doesn't even have her erasure/conceptual destruction anymore, it just didn't get applied to the profile past the revision yet.
This already wouldn't help much as is now (see what I said about regen in my reply with the vote - which now, in saying this, also comes to my attention that she lacks rege at all - she only has the mid one left from her lower keys and this is as moot here as it can possibly get -ever since I left), missing both of these powers kind of makes her overall situation here even more of a tight spot.
EDIT: So in checking for myself what that was about I saw that it was for being redundant with type 1 Abstract existence... Which in this case would lead me back to the above either way since that means they can't regen if destroyed/affected in the level of said abstraction.
I won't go as far as saying low-diff, but her lack of reliable survivability and a nice striking option that, while not perma-lethal, could at least keep the thing being hurt some with said Erasure... Ultimately makes this even more decisive and to the point than I thought at first.
Her enemy can ultimately both dish and take more than her not in one, but one too many fronts.
Just solidifying my vote there.
This already wouldn't help much as is now (see what I said about regen in my reply with the vote - which now, in saying this, also comes to my attention that she lacks rege at all - she only has the mid one left from her lower keys and this is as moot here as it can possibly get -ever since I left), missing both of these powers kind of makes her overall situation here even more of a tight spot.
EDIT: So in checking for myself what that was about I saw that it was for being redundant with type 1 Abstract existence... Which in this case would lead me back to the above either way since that means they can't regen if destroyed/affected in the level of said abstraction.
I won't go as far as saying low-diff, but her lack of reliable survivability and a nice striking option that, while not perma-lethal, could at least keep the thing being hurt some with said Erasure... Ultimately makes this even more decisive and to the point than I thought at first.
Her enemy can ultimately both dish and take more than her not in one, but one too many fronts.
Just solidifying my vote there.
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@The Causality Just gonna say Lavos having conceptual manipulation wouldn't change a thing regarding the Sonic match.
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Lavo's level of acausality hasn't changed to type 5 right?
Actually Enerjak's acausality also isn't type 5, huh.
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If you're asking because of Madoka's type 5, it is irrelevant since Type 2 CM bypasses type 5 Acausality at this point anyways.
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Ah I see, and does he start off with CM Type 2/ does he have the range to attack UM?
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On the Sonic matter, iirc Sonic won by virtue of a ludicrous advantage in scale of 2-A (<<< relevant. I know it wasn't say, SMT lvls of a gap but was GIGANTIC last I remember) plus a verse-wide nuke/reset comparable to the CC/high godly level of regens negation + conceptual and said ludicrous advantage in 2-A scale to ensure it oneshotted, as far as I remember.
I'm not entirely sure whether abilities here would change the result there -- personally all things considered I think Sonic should still win that, just some more diff.
I'm not entirely sure whether abilities here would change the result there -- personally all things considered I think Sonic should still win that, just some more diff.
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Lemme see... That level of destruction is an added effect to what it does - as in, it gets the name because it's constantly destroying/devouring all the stuff on that level.SomebodyData said:
On the matter of range, its destruction was going to Reach the Sea of Dreams/Zurvan which is beyond the verse as a whole and also where all of it is originated from, so I'd say it's a yes there.
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I'm not knowledgable about the verse, but I'm guessing reaching the Sea of Dreams is about the same range-wise as 2 multiverses, a realm above that, and 2 universes apart from both?
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Unless I forgot something, goes like:
Normal timeline >>> End of Time (Time Coordinates) Infinity >>> Infinite Multiverse >>> Bend of Time (Dimensionally Transcendent Location) >>> Darkness Beyond Time (Dimensional Void/Non-existent counterpart of the infinite Multiverse, inacessible to pretty much anyone short of being the TD or having the CC) >>> Sea of Dreams/Zurva
Normal timeline >>> End of Time (Time Coordinates) Infinity >>> Infinite Multiverse >>> Bend of Time (Dimensionally Transcendent Location) >>> Darkness Beyond Time (Dimensional Void/Non-existent counterpart of the infinite Multiverse, inacessible to pretty much anyone short of being the TD or having the CC) >>> Sea of Dreams/Zurva
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Then shiiiiiiiit, I've got nothing.
Lavos fra
Lavos fra
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Well, so...
Lavos: 3 (FateAlbane, SomebodyData, Yobo Blue)
Madoka:
Inconc:
Lavos: 3 (FateAlbane, SomebodyData, Yobo Blue)
Madoka:
Inconc:
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Oh how the tables have turned.
Lavos FRA.
Lavos FRA.
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Lavos FRA
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Lavos FRA
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Lavos FRA
Jackythejack
They/Them- 20,020
- 1,720
Let's seal the deal.
Lavos FRA
Lavos FRA
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Space Tick FRA
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Lavos FRA.
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buff Lavos FRA
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Inconclusive FRA
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Lavos: 12 (FateAlbane, SomebodyData, Yobo Blue, CrimsonStarFallen, TheQuirkyBoy, HI3 or Bust, EmperorDoom25, Jackythejack, Sadistic Sleuth, Celestial Pegasus, Junkoposter, GyroNutz)
Madoka:
Inconc:
Homura notices this and kills it: Infinity
Madoka:
Inconc:
- Status
