Isaac vs. Sailor Moon (Battle of the Golden-Haired Teen Protagonists) (Voting Completed)

Sometimes, one can't help but be caught in the middle of terrible circumstances. One could be drafted into a fierce fight by being caught in the middle of it, or one could be held hostage to certain obligations that forces them to take arms. While one could be born into a situation where they must fight to protect everything they know, another could be forced to take action after their loved ones are killed or abducted by enemies who seek to do everyone harm. Whatever the case, woe be to those who must take the lead of these charges, especially when they must fight at a young age, and today, we have two of these youthful warriors ready to duke it out to see whose cause is truly the most worthy of protecting. Shall the warrior whose world is threatened by the powerful force known as Alchemy reign victorious, or will the reincarnated princess of the solar system take charge and restore the light on a world beginning to succumb to the darkness? Today, we find out!

In the blue corner, we have Isaac from Golden Sun, and in the red corner, we have Sailor Moo from the manga of the same name.



-This is a fight to the death or incapacitation. No holds barred.
-Neither character are aware of each other beforehand, and there is no prep time.

-Neither character are allowed any outside help, aside from Isaac's Djinn and Summons.

-This battle takes place on the top of the Venus Lighthouse, giving Isaac the home-court advantage.

-Sailor Moon is in her Princess Serenity key.

-Speed is equalized.

With all this being said, let the debate begin!

Isaac: 0

Usagi: 7 (The Causality, XitSign, Milly Rocking Bandit, Ionliosite, Iamunanimousinthat, ABoogieYesSir, Tonygameman)

Inconclusive: 0

What type of transmutation is Isaac resistant to? Sailor Moon can turn him into moon dust. She can also summon the moon sword to erase him from existence.

So I've never been a Sailor Moon fan, made sure to open up Usagi's page to check what she could do before responding at all, proceeded to have a minature heart attack with how many sub-tabs and keys she has...my god.

Anyways, the Transmutation thing is kinda wierd. Isaac and the gang were going to be turned into a bunch of trees via magic, or psynergy, or something (GS' power system is all over the place and has more than one type of 'power' in the verse) and because Isaac's Psynergy(?) knew he didn't have a way to protect himself or counter it, it just made a forcefield sort of barrier all on its own to stop the attempt to transform him. So his powers are semi-aware and if Isaac can't do something about a sitaution (like being transformed against his will) it will at least TRY to auto-save him.

This power was only briefly talked about, only briefly showed up, barely explained, and completely out of left field. So...yeah, that's the best I got.

As for the Moon Sword, no idea if Isaac has a way to stop that from happening, honestly. Seems kinda like an EE, but I'm not familiar with Sailor Moon to be sure. If that's the opening move or Usagi has Isaac pinned, that might be a easy win con unless I've forgotten anything.

In Isaac's corner, though, his main element does let him control insta-kill Soul, Curse, and Death manip moves, which Usagi doesn't seem to have a resistance to up to Princess Serenity (and I don't know if the Silver Cystal can protect from those kinds of manips, the single manga page I found doesn't give me much to work with here, so correct/update me). Isaac's other elements would also have useful effects, like Jupiter letting him Power Null, but they won't be his first choice, so he probably wouldn't dip into using something like that unless he had a bad feeling about this or Usagi's abilities unnerved him enough to say 'Yeah, no."

Usagi's resistance to Status Effects is also wordded a bit weirdly. It seems like she's at least immune to blinding effects, but I don't know what all to extend that to. So for now at least, I'll lean off Isaac's Poisons, Sleeps, Stunning, ect, all those statuses he has.

Isaac bringing the Djinn to the party, though, is what makes this one interesting, and makes it hard for me to make a good call. 'Djinn Spam' is a pretty common tactic in Golden Sun, so much so that late-game enemies have powers dedicated to trying to stop the gang from doing it. The Djinn are all basically little creatures fused into Isaac that he can use for summons, for all sorts of powers, and switching out abilities...and he has 72 of them and they all do differant things. Rime and Luff both also Power Null, a handful of them make forcefields, even more of them change around stats (all of them, they can boost Isaac's AP, Durability, Speed and reduce Usagi's), Kite can boost Isaac' action/reaction time, Serac and Whorl both have insta-kill effects, Ground and Petra both immobilize, ect. Isaac has all of them at the ready, and there's no cost to using the Djinn for support like using Psynergy (though, being on HIS Lighthouse means he'll probably never run out of Psynery either), so they're entirely possible as spammy opening moves and can have all sorts and nasty effects that would set Usagi back. Power Nulls and Speed Manips are probably the worst, Usagi seems very reliant on powers and Golden Sun's Power Null seems to knock out nearly everything, even some level of physical techniques, so she'd be in a bad spot. And with speed equalized, it's bad news that Isaac has speed manipulation powers and Usagi doesn't seem to, using the Djinn or Psynergy to speed himself up and slow her down, and improve his reactions, means Usagi's going to lose ground fast if he uses any of those.

Also, some super unlikely things Isaac can do but they COULD help: The Mold Djinn compells a victim to either attack thier allies or, if there are no allies, themselves. We're not sure if this is some sort of bloodlusting/beserking/confusion effect or mind control, so Usagi might resist it anyways, but it's there. Another Djinn, Lull, briefly stops fights, making all of Isaac's oppoents temorarilly non-hostile, if just for a small amount of time. Again, we don't know if this is mind control or not, so no clue if it'd actually work. Isaac also has summonable allies. I know it says 'no outside help' but he does have a power to, for example, raise the dead or demons to fight for him, so not sure where that lies in a grey area. But if that's allowed, those could be distracting extra targets that need dealing with too. So those are some pretty unlikely powers, but they might be useful as distractions or ways to disrupt Usagi from actually engaging Isaac himself to buy time.

All-in-All...I have no idea currently. I know too little about Sailor Moon for this one. It seems like Isaac has a lot of really useful abilities to fight Usagi, and at least one way to avoid one of her easy insta-wins, but I still don't know about the Moon Sword's EE, if she'd use it really quickly, and if Isaac has anything he can do about it. I think I've left all the good, relavant information here about Isaac's best options and possible opening moves and will wait until I know more about Sailor Moon before voting.

EDIT: Embarassingly, I misspelled Usagi as 'Usami' this entire post...whoops!

Isaac resists being transformed into a tree; probably doesn't quite equate to moon dust. Isaac generally leads with his summons as well as using both Earth Psynergy and sword strikes. He also often uses Sol Blade's ability to strike the Sun into his enemies. I don't know much about Sailor Moon either, and I'm a bit too tired to create a long post, but Xit got most of it.

Bump.

SM again? Really?

Yes.

And bump.

There's like 15 different scouts tho

I only know Moon and Mars, so, eh.

Main character VS Main character seems pretty fitting too, plus they're both blondes.Points at least for similar character matchups?

Yeh.

Death Battle would be proud.

Death Battle would be disapointed in you using Isaac though.

If you're doing a Sailor Moon fight you need someone who really brings in the views. Cult Classic don't cut it.

See, NOW you're thinking like a YT marketing machine!

Bump.

Bump.

Bump.

High 4-C Moon usually use some Light Manipulation to put down the opponent, those beam have various effect such has paralyse the opponent to let her snipe and turning them to moon dust. she has also access to the Moon power which increase the power of her attacks and the SC give her an infinite amount of power, she could have the AP advantage too

For haxes as i Already explained, she paralyse and Transmute with lights but also as access to the Holy sword which work on an limited Existence Erasure. she also has a better mobility(flying, even if some Golden Sun boss can fly) passive barrier which Null abilities at contacts, do Isaac has an answer to this?

Moon also has a better ranged and could probably snipe from earth if necessary.

Isaac has some limited Transmutation resistance because Psynergy is weird and sometimes a catch-all to problems when writers get lazy/run out of time to explain the worldbuilding (actually, Psynergy's unexplained coming to the rescue kind reminds me of the Silver Cystal if I'm reading its decription right, it seems to just do whatever Isaac needs it to do because plot). I don't know why Isaac doesn't have Light Resistance listed since he resists everything else Psynergy can manipulate, might be an oversight, might be me forgetting something, so we'll roll with Light being an affective combat option for now.

Paralization probably isn't an issue of any kind in the fight. GS characters have an interesting history with status effects (so many just don't seem to connect), but even if they do Isaac has a whole truckload of Djinn on standby who's only job is to make those effects go away.

No clue on AP for sure, I think Sailor Moon's calc is higher though from what I can see, but Isaac also has a completely unknown boost from the power of the Golden Sun.

So Isaac's best answers to these issues are probably the Djinn and letting them support him with thier own shields and stat manipulations, speed manipulations, the statuses Sailor Moon doesn't resist, power nulls, ect. With the Djinn Isaac actually has a bunch of options, and from what I'm reading on Sailor Moon's page she doesn't resist a lot of what the Djinn can do to back Isaac up.

The thing that I'm left mostly unsure about is the sword. Isaac for SURE has no way around EE, there's no debate there and I doubt Psynergy swooping in to save the day can be argued with something that extremely powerful. So I need context before I can vote. If Moon's willing to bust the sword out early, Isaac can't do anything to stop himself from being erased. If it's something she doesn't use a lot Isaac has a lot of interesting and useful abilities that can give him major advantages like manipulating speed, AP, Durability, and Power Nulls that he should be able to fight her and bring her down, even null her advantages over him that her powers give. If it's unclear if she'd use the sword...Then I don't have an answer and would have to incon.

TLDR, in my opinion this fight really rests on the sword most of all, and I'd like to know more about the context before I can vote, cause with my limited knowlage of SM it's the tipping point for me.

I don't think being transmuted into a tree is equalized as being turned into Moon dust so dunno if Isaac can really tank this

Also, Isaac has all the Djiin in the cast? (The 72?) if yes, doesn't he just have all the earth djiin insteads of all the djiins? it seem a bit weird to me.

Ah! thanks to remind me, about AP, Isaac scale to a Supernova, so it's 1 foe, Sailor Moon scale to a calc which give her at least 22 Foe so 22 time stronger than Isaac's AP, she can probably one shot if the gap is 22 time, and she can tank all of his attacks easily (not truly haxes, mainly AP)

Yes i agree, Isaac have many djiins to deal with almost all of Moon's haxes, but he need to use them specifically, and he has too many haxe to lead specifically with something which could eventually be super effective! against moon

In a side not, Moon lead with light attacks, she will probably not use the holy sword immediatly.

While it's not exactly the same thing, it is a reaction his Psynergy has. Transumutation is a thing his normal set doesn't counter, so his Psynergy outright protects him, that was the point of the bubble's existance. Like I said above, this was probably at best a worldbuilding thing that didn't go anywhere and at worst lazy writing, but under similar curcimstances I think It's plausable Isaac's Psynergy would bubble him up from a similar threat.

...I drawn the line at EE though. While I'll admit I'm being a bit lax just because the situation was weird, there's no way the same power could counter EE, there's absolutely 0 proof.

Yeah Isaac has all the Djinn in VS debates unless he's restricted. Isaac's not limited to the Venus Djinn, that's just a thing most players do because they don't experiment with the power system in the game because it's admittedly trial and error. Isaac can bust out any Djinn in the whole 72 set, so we give him the complete set so nothing gets left out. So any of thier abilities are game.

...OH. Well, I clearly read that calc wrong, or was looking at the wrong calc, because 22 Foe is a lot higher, yes...Yikes. That's a total one-shot in almost every situation unless Isaac can stack stat manips. The Golden Sun is a vauge powerup so all we can say is 'higher', and doubling 1 FOE and cutting SM's 22 FOE in half leaves us a differance of 2 to 11...That's better but still dangerously close to a 7x differance. Plus that requires Isaac to use his abilities or have the Djinn do thier thing, not good. And I'm not sure Isaac even can stack stat manips, if he can...that's some breathing room, but if he can't that's a mega 'yikes'

Probably not as bad a situation as you might think with picking the right Djinn. There might be 72 of them but there are clear obviously good answers, and a lot of djinn double up to do the same thing (Luff and Rime both power-null, using one is like using the other, for example).ALL the Djinn that heal or cure effects, or are defensive aren't going to be on Isaac's mind when he's thinking of ways to engage with Sailor Moon, he's going to be thinking of his offensive options and set-up options first. Change stats, make himself stronger, faster, make Sailor Moon weaker and slower, seal her powers, those options are logical for a clever leader and figher like Isaac to make off the bat. He's not going to waste time with something like Spritz who heals, he doesn't need healing yet, so options like that won't even cross his mind.

...Of course, ALL those positives are right out the window for me. 22 FOE with a flight advantage and a manip Isaac only MIGHT resist? When I thought the AP was closer this was really a battle of haxes to me, but with an AP differance like that Isaac's got time for maybe one option before he's one-shotted. Sailor Moon pretty much totally takes this. Isaac's best case senario requires a bunch of Djinn to go off as fast as possible to even get the playing field even again before he can actually make use of his haxs to battle Sailor Moon's own power set.

Funny how reading a number wrong can change to whole outlook of a fight, huh?

I see, he might resist to the Transmutation then

About the djiins, i personnally always thought that he could only use Venus Djiins on this site but it's probably because i used Isaac and all the cast with their own djiins when i've played at GS (yeah i'am not reallyoriginal lol).

Yea i know that he can use some djiin in a logical way against an opponent but he has still more than 72 djiins, he could probably use some djiins which are AP based only instead of use which can be effective. basically, he can use as much AP djiins than Haxes djiins

But yeah i think that most of the pervious scenario are oblirated by the massive AP gap, allowing her to one shot before Isaac have a chance, defensive option are also nulled, next time you will probably read numbers better OwO

So I'll vote Sailor Moon via her Massive AP gap.

No, we give all the GS characters pretty much everything, though right now thier equipment is limtied to what they had on hand when they joined the party. That might honestly need a revision, since people like Piers kinda get screwed since all he had was a mace while Isaac and Felix are allowed things like the Sol Blade since it's obvious for Venus users. Little lopsided logic and fairness there.

I stand by everything I've said. SM has AMAZING abilities, but so does Isaac, and with Isaac having a Power Null up his sleeve along with the devestation of stat manips, plus Djinn usage being a lot more logical and straightforward than you might think despite 72 options, Isaac would totally have a fighting chance for a win, and if EE isn't in character I'm confident Isaac's wide variety of haxs would overpower SM's.

...Iiiiiiiiif it weren't for that 22x differance. I have NO idea how I messed that up, when I looked on the clac on her page I could've sworn she was only a little above Isaac, and Isaac having the Golden Sun made this a neck-and-neck hax and powers battle. That AP is brutal, Isaac's only chances are if he chose to Power Null or speed manip first so he can avoid being totally blown away with the first hit. He even needs BOTH a dura and AP manip to avoid being one-shotted.

Sailor Moon totally takes this, sword doesn't even need to be thought about for a win here.

So yeah...my bad, I've really extended this debate longer than it needed to be, this is a blowout...

I see I see, RIP Piers owow

Without the AP advantage, Isaac should take this, he resist to Sailor Moon's main hax and have plenty option to make the fight going in his way but yeah sadly, Moon has the massive AP adavantage which allow her to win.

Hey hey, no problem, don't need to worry about a mistake like that, enjoying debate is already a good thing, we're not here for serious buisness

1. JusticeForPiers

Well, not so sadly for Sailor Moon, that's a pretty nice lead she has there. XD

I'm glad you at least took my mistake with good fun, but I'm genuinely really embarassed that I prolonged this debate by being oblivious...Thank you though, it really does make me feel better about this whoopsies.


Enjoy this amazing crossover image from my timeline on tumblr to celebrate the fact that this thread is pretty cut-and-dry. XD

Amazing fanart Owo

I know, right? Really on point style. When I saw it I knew I needed a reason to bring it up in this thread ...But then I forgot about this fight until I got the notification for your replies. XD

I appreciate how nicely this thread went. Usagi FRA.

Moon FRA

Month long bump.

Moon fra

Usagi fra

Bump.

Sailor Moom for reasons above.