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Mario 2-B downgrade (But possibly the return of 4-A base Mario)

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The_Smashor

The_Smashor

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Basically, there is literally no proof that each dream in Dream Depot is a universe. Literally none. Also, before you make a rebuttal arguement, check to see if it's already been made here. While Maginaryworld and Dream Depot are from different franchises and have several differences, on a fundamental level they are very similar. If your arguement is related to, for example, the meaning of dreams, then it's already been debunked. No, stars in the background does not mean it's a universe. Even galaxies in the background dosn't mean that.

Anyways, having played through Dream Team, most stages do have stars in the background. That means that dreams are only 4-A. That means characters that scale from dreams like Dreamy Bowser, Zeekeeper and Antasma with the dark stone would be downgraded to 4-A. But, this does make 4-A Mario that bit more consistant.

As for Super Paper Mario characters who scale from the Chaos and Pure hearts, they would only be 2-C. While Dimentio's profile says that he would destroy all timelines and possibilties, I watched the very video that description linked to and not a single thing even remotely implied that. That description needs to be changed. All Dimentio said is that he would destroy all worlds and create perfect new ones. If I'm wrong, correct me, but that means that the mai four characters with the Pure Hearts, Count Bleck and Super Dimentio would only be 2-C.

Cliffnotes Versio
2-B Mario is gone

Noisestorm - Crab Rave Monstercat Release
Noisestorm - Crab Rave Monstercat Release


4-A Mario is back (Maybe)

Crab Rave Reversed
Crab Rave Reversed
 
Same

Hopefully not, though

4-A Mario coming back might sweeten the deal enough for this not to be a flame war
 
I actually think there is a statement of someone saying they 'could' get on a rocket and go to the stars in the sky, I believe it's something like that?
 
Darkmon cns said:
I actually think there is a statement of someone saying they 'could' get on a rocket and go to the stars in the sky, I believe it's something like that?
Click to expand...
Having stars doesn't mean that a dream is a universe as show in the Illumina thread
 
Theuser789 said:
Having stars doesn't mean that a dream is a universe as show in the Illumina thread
Click to expand...
No it dosen't, the difference was I believe a galaxy as a boss fight later in the game and dreamy weegeee possessing galaxys
 
There is also the fact that to be 2-C there would need to be a 4-Dimensional space between their universes, which I'm pretty sure is not the case here.
 
I however am netrual in this, it has been too long sense I played the game or suw the scanes, my previous statments were from memory and could be wrong
 
No it dosen't, the difference was I believe a galaxy as a boss fight later in the game and dreamy weegeee possessing galaxys

Having galaxies also doesn't mean that it's a universe as show in the Illumina thread
 
Yeah and that's primarily why I'm kinda fishy with this whole thing. It feels more like a way to get back at Dragon or Cal than a legit downgrade. Though I'm not familiar with Mario so I can't tell if it's valid or not.
 
Theuser789 said:
Having galaxies also doesn't mean that it's a universe as show in the Illumina thread
Click to expand...
Actually your claims that all the dreams in that thread had a galaxy was rejected everytime you brought it up
 
Not really no, even then having galaxies doesn't prove it's a universe, It could be just a 3-C structure, a universe has trillions of galaxies
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Sees downgrade.
Me: Can you see it? The inevitability? You rise, only to fall.
Click to expand...
The quote is: "Do you see... the beauty of it? The inevitability? You rise, only to fall."
 
Its best to wait for Dino Ranger Black, but I'll go over a lot of things.

First off, Dream Depot is a gateway that transforms Dreams into Universes. Future Dream especially does have statements about it being an entire Universe. It has many galaxies, stated to have endless space, and also stated to be a Space-Time Continuum. Also, the in depth lore clearly states every time someone dreams, an entire universe is born. And this is also 100% canon to Mario's lore.

2nd, Dream World in Dream Team has statements about being Infinite in size. Dream's Deep is said to have a bottomless pit containing portals to countless other Dream Worlds which are entire Universes. This quote also further elaborates there's more than one Dream World]. Dream Stone is also stated to have wish powers and being empowered or absorbing it enables them to be merged with all the Dream Worlds. It is completely different from the Illumina example. Unlike Maginary World which is just one Universe containing many dreams that aren't confirmed to be universes, Dream Depot actually has each and every Dream literally being an entire Universe.

And regardless of Mario Party 5 or Dream Team, Super Paper Mario actually has many universes. Tribe of the Ancients were said to create countless dimensions including Flipside, but that's not the only one. Dimentio who's also hinted to be from the tribe of ancients by Carso. And this would also explain how Dimentio is literally capable of creating entire universes such as the Dimension D. Dimension D, is to be in the 12th transcendent dimensional space, thus making him 1-B. LOL Jk, it is an entire universe that exists outside the multiverse and is the only place safe from the Void. Merloo was also an Ancient one who was said to have the power to control countless dimensions.

The Void, is an Interdimensional Void similar to the likes of what Exdeath has. It never moves but simply expands/grows and can be seen across the entire multiverse similar to how [[Fusion Zamasu]|Infinite Zamasu]] can be seen in other timelines. Its size depends on how many universes it has devoured. And regardless of whether or not all Dream Worlds are used, Super Paper Mario does still state that there exist "Countless Worlds". The Universe Timpani and Lord Blumiere are from is the first Universe to be devoured. And it said to consume each and every dimension every second; meaning at least thousands and possibly millions of universes are devoured every day. And considering the part does sleep from time to time, the journey took more than days. And of course, prior to when you reach the End Game, World 6 is the only one of the universes you get to travel to that is consumed, meaning there would have to be much more than just those 11 if you count the 8 worlds + Flipside + Flopside + Mario's Universe.

And Super Mario Galaxy also has lore suggesting there are other timelines that exist. Rosalina was said to have given birth to universes as well as Space-Time Continuums. While she only does by one by one and it's unknown how many she created, the Gentle Pull does predate time and space. And there's also the existence of Countless Dimensions based on the back ups from above paragraphs.

I will look for more scans, but in the meantime; 2-B Mario verse is staying. But we'd need input from Dino Ranger Black. And while yes there are a few hyperboles here in there, this blog does give quite a bit of in depth information.
 
@Dino

Please do not link to Mario Wiki pages. It would be better and easier if you would link directly to scans. Since wikis can be unreliable, I will not consider anything you said with a wiki link as evidence.

"The Wonders of the Universe". As in just the wonders of it. Not the entire universe. The wonders of Florida dosn't include the entire state

Bottomless Pits are game mechanics. Multiple universe =/= 2-B

Everything here is wiki links and could easily be false

You used proof from your own statements that are from wiki links. Also, I used control + F to find anything you said, and even in the wiki pages it isn't there. Why are you linking wiki pages so people don't bother to read them so people assume what you say is true?

Other timelines =/= 1000+ timelines
 
I did say I was going to look for the specific statements, but they are out there. And that's false equivalence. In Future Dream there are aliens with rocket ships that actually explored all those galaxies in which they're stated to be Universes. Misstar even calls it a Dream of the Universe. Meaning it's a Dream that completely mirrors the entire universe; that's what Future Dream is.

Bottomless put is not a game mechanic in this sense; we aren't talking about Bowser's Castle, it's literally stated to have a bottomless pit. Countless = a big number which is further elaborated by the fact that a Dream World is born every time someone dreams. The Population of Earth alone proves there's 7 billion Dream Worlds at bare minimum. But this blog I also edited and showed more info. I addressed I don't agree with everything said, but the parts about Dream Depot are true. And this statement further elaborates many Dream Worlds.

And don't be hostile @Smashor; I don't need to remind you the multiple warnings you have received for that type of attitude. You do realize staff members are busy and especially if the discussions have been discussed hundreds of times. Dino's the one who knows the full details, I'm filling in for him at the time being. I'm looking for the scan about the Void but there is an "All Worlds, Dimensions, Possibilities" statement.
 
Well then find the statements before saying things. In your video I tried to see the cutscene parts and nobody says that. Could you give me a specific time stamp?

Ah. Could you link a scan for that statement, then? Like, any of those statments? Outer Space =/= Universe. If enormous amount of stars was equal to universe, then Kirby, Kid Icarus, basically every verse with a starry sky 4-A feat would be Low 2-C. Heck, by that logic Sonic would have 2-B. Not to mention, is there any evidence that each dream has it's own timeline?

Sure. Staff users can outright claim that users want special privileges for their verse or that they are trying to overwhelm the staff with literally no evidence but if a bluename user tries to call out a staff member on their BS then that's unacceptable. Not a double standard at all.
 
No. I am done being pushed around by those who think they can say whatever they want just because their name is in the color green.
 
True. We're not cavemen. We can be civil. Anyways, Dark, I don't appriciate being called agressive for calling you out on your mistake.
 
@DarkDragon The scan you're looking for is found in this link here: https://youtu.be/k-HWtdOKZXk

It doesn't mention nor imply the future being affected by the Void, so "Possibilities" was a headcanon that was never a part of the original scan from the game's dialogue but everything else in that quote is correct.
 
It was said that the Void would've destroyed each world "one by one", and the Void's destruction did seem to be a gradual process that was happening in a period of several days. I guess that's all I'l chip in for now considering this thread already seems to be flying off the rails.

Seriously, can we focus attacking each other's arguments instead of attacking each other personally?
 
We've been here for years, and some of us have actually helped Sonic get upgraded before as well as rejected absurd Mario upgrades. It's accuracy is what we're looking for; and accuracy comes with case by case, not "double standard". Our favorite or least favorite verses have no correlation for how characters get rated.

And that is false, the "Countless stars" alone wasn't the reason, there were other statements to prove they're universes. Those examples given never had universe statements, but here actually does have universe statements. The videos I linked had automatic timestamps also. Though, I noticed one of them had the wrong link, so I fixed it. Mario's "Dream Worlds" are more like the Worlds in Final Fantasy then they are in the likes of Kind Icarus or Zelda.

The scan Magi showed was only one of them; there are other sources. Maverick's scan showcases the Void grows and consumes dimensions. Similar to what Ouroboros (Bravely Default) does. If you look here it says "that void grows ever passing second" on page 110. And considering the size of it depends on how many dimensions it has already devoured, it implies at least 1 dimension is consumed every second. Implying every hour has at least 3600 dimensions devoured.

Anyway, I'm not trying to paint you the wrong way, but the fact is; you've had multiple occurrences of cursing at staff members or at least outright yelling at them for disagreeing with you. But I'd advise you not to paint staff us staff members the wrong way, we're often busy multitasking with the management of many different threads and cleaning up multiple profiles. And we're the ones who have to put up with all the drama when we get attacked by trolls. We aren't pushing you around, we're simply doing our jobs while also trying the best we can to keep the wiki drama free.
 
For the "possibilities headcanon" dealio, its stated he's gonna destroy ALL time (and space).

"He will use the Dark Prognosticus to destroy all space and time by unleashing the Void, a vortex from which nothing can escape."

Meh, basically doesn't matter the rate of time its destroying universes at since really at the point it grows to encompass everything is what the Chaos Heart would be casually supplying the energy up till it reaches that point in area of effect size since it "fuels the Void" . It would be supplying that output to destroy everything since it would grow it that large.

It'll be hilarious if we use don't use a middle ground/association fallacy fallacy to not classify the term "dream world" as synonymous with "universe" like with the Sonic 2-B thread. All dream worlds are basically presumed to be similar in size due to the terminology so have at it with the downgrade since they must just be a pocket dimension with a couple thousand stars to fill their sky lol.
 
I agree more so with DDM, if the claim is true that it gets larger when eating a dimension and that it grew every second (I suw the scan so I know that one is true) then it would only take a few hours to a few days to reach 2-B, granted I don't know the time scale of the game a few hours is probably a reasonable assumption.
 
The scan Maverick linked implied for it to be several days as the time frame; but anyone could technically stop at an Inn hundreds of times making the feat even more impressive. There's also Niarobi's blog elaborating that there's at least Quintillions of universes.
 
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