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NiGHTS' Tier

Eficiente

Eficiente

He/Him
VS Battles
Thread Moderator
15,441
5,031
I'm not an expert in this verse, but it catches my attention how NiGHTS' profile is being handled.

It has recently been downgraded by Ant to Unknown in AP and speed due to the lack of info on the Dream World. Then, the same user who made the profile removed the downgrades after saying its reasons in the Talk part of the profile.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Talk:NiGHTS

This is not ok for some reasons. This needs to be done in a CRT as we do with most things to give others a better opportunity to argue this matter. And Ant doesn't have the time to deal with this, him being as far as I know the only one concerned on the matter.

So, why didn't I just ask for the changes to be removed? Well, because they look like they could be correct. And we lack rules for this scenarios.

What to you guys think of commercials giving tiers to characters?

What evidence affirms this Dream World to not be a fictional dream? One that should give not tier to the feats there.

And since when "At least 3-A" is a thing?
 
This is a strange case indeed, but based on what is shown, I could agree with an "at least 4-A".

Regarding if the Dream World should be considered real, I think a case similar to Kirito could be argued.

NiGHTS is a natural resident of this world, and it is physical to she/it.
 
I was thinking on 4-A as well. IDK about Kirito's reasons.
 
Okay, looks like I have some explaining to do: where to start?

First off, from the way Ant seemed to put it in his downgrade to Unknown tier, sounded like he was simply asking for more proof on the actual proportions of the Dream World, which Wizeman stated he could destroy (image below for his exact wording).

That said, the commercial came to mind, where it described the Dream World to be a universe. As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason this should be discredited, especially since (as far as I can tell) there aren't any rules in place stating you can't use information from commercials to help tier a character. Info is info, no matter the source, as long as that source is credible, right?

As for whether the Dream World should be considered real, this is actually an exact issue covered by Owl in the game. He says the world is real, just not accessible through any other way than sleep. So yes, NiGHTS' world is indeed real.

As for 4-A vs 3-A, I say why not pull a similar thing we did with Virgil Reality Helmet Bubsy's tiering (which was covered on a thread like this)? Given the evidence for 3-A NiGHTS but also the sure-as-heck obvious 4-A tier at the very minimum, perhaps the tier should be "At least 4-A, possibly 3-A". After all, you yourself said 3-A is possibly correct but there's also obvious credibility in 4-A as well. The debate could go either way.

Screenshot 2019-04-23 at 9.09.32 PM
Ant's revision descriptio
 
Glitch Trainer MangleMan25 said:
As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason this should be discredited, especially since (as far as I can tell) there aren't any rules in place stating you can't use information from commercials to help tier a character. Info is info, no matter the source, as long as that source is credible, right?
Click to expand...
To help if it is consistent, absolutely, but "no matter the source" isn't correct. Some sources are less reliable than others. And this seems like the least reliable source possible, commercials may not even be made by the same people who worked on the game.

Also, a change like this is something that must always be brought in a Content Revision thread first. Answer the reasons as to why someone removed something isn't enough, as the possibility of you being wrong is still there. Or new evidence to support the change can be brought by other users. It's also how everyone checks stuff about a verse, no one sees a profile's history.

IDK about Bubsy, but "At least 4-A, possibly 3-A" seems good.
 
Eficiente said:
To help if it is consistent, absolutely, but "no matter the source" isn't correct. Some sources are less reliable than others. And this seems like the least reliable source possible, commercials may not even be made by the same people who worked on the game.

IDK about Bubsy, but "At least 4-A, possibly 3-A" seems good.
Click to expand...
But that's exactly what this is: consistent. We know the Dream World is big enough to contain an entire cosmos, so to call it universal isn't at all a stretch or inconsistent.

Bubsy's tier is besides the point, was just bringing up the format of his tiering as an example for could/probably should be done with NiGHTS' profile.

So if "At least 4-A, possibly 3-A" is the general consensus, I believe we just wait for mod approval, correct?
 
Eficiente seems to make sense. "At least 4-A, possibly 3-A" should be fine to apply.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
I recall The 2nd Existential Seed saying that NiGHTS is 2-B. I've called him over to comment.
Click to expand...
If he's got more knowledge of the verse than me, he can probably prove it. I do remember seeing multiple places some people calling NiGHTS 2-C to 2-B.
 
Also as a side effect and just something I wanted to add, NiGHTS should have a type 8 immortality, as they're reliant on Wizeman and can only truly die when he dies. Wizeman himself also gets a type 8 immortality as well for saying that "As long as darkness exists in the hearts of humans, then I...and my nightmares...shall never be destroyed!"

And I mean, he does come back, after all. You kill him in the first game and NiGHTS dies. They come back later on in the next game
 
Thank you for the notification Shadow... Firstly:

- WIzeman didn't created the Dream World. Both the comics (which have the same canon as the games) and the games heavily imply he was a former dreamer who lost all his Ideya and fell into the Sea of Emptiness (or whatever that sea is called)

- The Dreamers worlds have their own separate time flow, and the "worlds" within them actually alternate realities created by The Dreamer... In-fact some dialogue implies this.

I'll use the comics (since they are canon) in conjunction with the games... And conclude that they are most definitely 2-B... And yes their level of countless rivals "Sonic Shuffle" titles, but likely a fair bit more.
 
I'm evaluating a big DC thread, please leave links for evidence to all that. I'll check everything later.
 
Waiting for Seed's evidence on 2-B. If he had stuff only on what he said that wouldn't be enough btw.
 
Seed was going to give evidence for NiGHTS being 2-B, I was willing to evaluate it.
 
I will try to search proof about the comics being canon, since from there comes the proof for 2-B, apparently.

Then I will try to search for said comics and read.

You don't have to wait for me, btw. I will message you later about it, @Eficiente, if I find anything relevant. Will also try to familiarize myself with the games (although gathering proof from them will be a bit more difficult because of my bad internet connection).
 
So, after skimming for a bit, the most I could find regarding the canonicity for the comics, is that it expands a bit on the games' plot. That's it.

I also stumbled across this site, which has very detailed information about the verse and all matter of content surrounding it, including multiple interviews with the developers.

This will be useful for tackling the games (the site also hosts the comic adaptations, as well as a story book that may or may not be canon; worth checking out).

Finally, I want to say that my search wasn't as thorough as I hoped, so maybe I skipped an interview or something not featured in that site that confirms the comic's status as canon. However, I didn't find it.

Regardless, I will go more in-depth in the verse in the next few days, so maybe I can find even more information.

If Seed comes with his stuff by then, even better.

So yeah, will message you soon, @Eficiente.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
So, after skimming for a bit, the most I could find regarding the canonicity for the comics, is that it expands a bit on the games' plot. That's it.

I also stumbled across this site, which has very detailed information about the verse and all matter of content surrounding it, including multiple interviews with the developers.

This will be useful for tackling the games (the site also hosts the comic adaptations, as well as a story book that may or may not be canon; worth checking out).

Finally, I want to say that my search wasn't as thorough as I hoped, so maybe I skipped an interview or something not featured in that site that confirms the comic's status as canon. However, I didn't find it.

Regardless, I will go more in-depth in the verse in the next few days, so maybe I can find even more information.

If Seed comes with his stuff by then, even better.

So yeah, will message you soon, @Eficiente.
Click to expand...
Well, if NiGHTS in the comics has feats and/or so on proving they're 2-B within that version of the canon, a second profile could be added in a similar manner to, say, Archie Sonic or IDW Sonic.

I'm not at all familiar with the comic canon, so if you want to go ahead and make that profile, that's completely up to you. Or link me the stuff and provide the details if you're too busy with other things.
 
I will unsubscribe to this thread. You can send me a PM if you need my help after you are done.
 
Since this seems unclear, her comics self could be a second key.
 
@Jacky

Where is it stated the comic is canon? I literally said that I found nothing of the sort, and the closest to it I could find was that it provides additional details to the story of the game.

And the site I posted above hosts the comic.
 
Jackythejack said:
I don't see why they need multiple keys. The comic is canonical, after all.

Where can I read this comic?
Click to expand...
It's, from what anyone can see, never been stated that the Archie NiGHTS comics are canonical to the games.

It's a different media, and as such, it should be assumed it's an alternate universe to the one in the games.
 
I could've sworn I've seen something about it being canon. Eh, I'll look it over at some time.

Still think we should tell that one dude to come back but eh.
 
I linked the Mind Control Resistance, I wanted evidence for that.
 
I don't know about the universe level thing. Saying that they are possibly universe level based off of commercial doesn't seem like good enough evidence to warrant 3A.
 
@Blueblur You would need to prove that the commercial was lying or is unreliable, we can't just assume it was.
 
Antvasima approved 3-A NiGHTS, so that's all I've got to say on that issue. He saw the evidence provided (including the commercial) and said as long as it was only listed as "Possibly 3-A" it would be fine.
 
I am completely fine with 3A all I am saying is just because a commercial defined the game as a fantastic universe doesn't mean that it warrants a 3A tier. I mean a few seconds before that he referred to it as a world.

Now to be honest I haven't played Nights before so if there is things with in the game that help support the commercial calling it a universe than I am all for 3A Nights. But just saying she is 3A because a commercial said so just doesn't seem like enough to justify.

@Eficiente we also can't assume that simply describing a game as a "fantastic universe" warrant 3A either without further evidence backing it up.
 
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