Dante (DMC) Upgrades.

For Dante (DMC)'s Attack Potency, his Devil Trigger form states this.

"his powers tore open a dimensional portal the size of North America."

If Dante is able to make a portal of that size, this makes Dante Continent/Multi-Continent level instead of country level, as North America is considered a Large Continent. However, there is statement that states that all of the clouds that were covering North America basically dissipated; it is likely that Devil Trigger Dante is approaching Moon level here.

For Dante (DMC)'s Speed, we use 440000m/s instead of 150000m/s. Using 440000m/s, I am getting a speed of ~Mach 1300 for speed of lightning. The profile has stated that Dante is actually much faster than this, which makes him Massively Hypersonic+.

Therefore, I would like to propose this change for Dante (Devil Trigger)

Attack Potency: Continent level, at most Multi-Continent level (Managed to completely destroy Abigial's physical body, his powers tore open a dimensional portal the size of North America and the energy released caused all the clouds over the continent to dissipate)

I would also like to propose this change for Dante (DMC 1,4,2 and Anime Dante)

Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ (Faster than the cloud to ground lightning used by both Griffon and Blitz, Blitzed Despair Embodied who is much faster than either Blitz or Griffon).

Any thoughts?

Yeah I was quite confused as to why the North America cloud thing feat was not given a calculation.

However with the possibility of Planet Level Majin/Sparda Dante being high I think Multi Cont Devil Trigger Dante sounds correct.

However I myself am not entirely sure about Mach 1300. Yes he is much faster than cloud to ground lightning as shown in the games and has blitzed Mundus level demons before in base (Argosax) I would say that being faster than lightning makes sense. But not sure about Mach 1300 number specifically.

Well on the speed front Dante is faster now than he was with Alastor which is considered the spirit of lightning or the embodiment of lightning with this in mind with it Dante should at least be as fast as the fastest natural lightning found in the human world especially since Demonic Elements are considered of a higher plane/power than earthly elements (Ice is colder than absolute 0 fire is hotter than magma, lightning is faster ect)

So whats the fastest lightning can be in our world?

According to the OBD the top speed of Stepped Leader 2250 km/s or Mach 7,500

However the return stronk is far faster sources im finding going so far as to say 1/10th the speed of light or Mach 99,930

So Dante's base speed range with Alastor should be Mach 7,500 - 99,930 (Im more inclined to belive the Mach 7,500 one) I would say Dante after DMC 1 is Sub Rel considering he Blitzes people Alastor would be considered usless against.

Of course he would probably be easily FTL+ with Quick Silver

Someone should probably calculate this, to be honest.

^I've asked DonTalk to calculate this and is waiting for him to finish hit

@Crazystarf I think that these upgrades seem reasonable.

@SaberLily015 You are starting to sound extremely biased in general concerning DMC. We cannot scale him that high from the average speed of lightning, which is what we tend to use for cases such as this.

There was a calc made by DontTalk, that puts Dante and Abagil and Sub Rel, but i'm not to sure if it holds any relevance here...

It should hold relevance here, yes. Can you please provide a link?

Looks legit. Dante is already much faster than Cloud to ground lightning and can properly blitz Mundus level demons by 2. So this is no outlier.

Well, if it is an anime episode, I am not sure that it counts as part of continuity.

Ah, well Don't Talk said no one could get scaled to it apparently.

TheMightyRegulator said:

Ah, well Don't Talk said no one could get scaled to it apparently.

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He also said that he doesn't know that series that well either, i think it's best to ask the knowledgeable member's of the DMC verse about this

Well, if it is officially a part of canon, we should he able to use it.

I would definitely say that the anime can be considered canon since there's nothing in it that contradicts any of the canon material, there's also a statement on the Devil May Cry wiki that states that the anime is canon with the events taking place between DMC1 and DMC4

http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Devil_May_Cry:_The_Animated_Series

I will see if I can find a better source that confirms it

Okay then. However, if you link to the calculation in a profile here, you should simultaneously link to the canonicity page.

Yeah nobody can really implement these changes to Dante is because his page is locked. If someone unlocks it and adds in the Planet level and these upgrades that would be decent.

I have unlocked the page.

Antvasima said:

I have unlocked the page.

Click to expand...

Sweet.

It appears the page went haywire... If someone could fix it that would be nice.

fixed, you can lock the page ant

Wait, no one linked to a page stating the anime is canon.

I got it, i'll put a note at the bottom

You should probably update the other affected DMC pages accordingly as well.

On it.

Hmm. Your changes do not seem to mirror what was said here. I would prefer if ThePerpetual handles the changes.

Antvasima said:

Hmm. Your changes do not seem to mirror what was said here. I would prefer if ThePerpetual handles the changes.

Click to expand...

Yeah.

I've found a source that proves that the anime is canon. It's an interview with Hiroyuki Kobayashi, who was a programmer for DMC1 and the director and producer of DMC4. He also helped to produce the anime. He confirms in the interview that the anime is canon

http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/dmc4_iv_p3.asp

@ThePerpetual, could you make the nesscary changes?

Hey guys. I'm new here so I apologize if I sound fishy but there are some points I want to make about Dante, Mundus, Argosax and Sparda.


First thing I want to point out is DMC1's opening cutsene suggests that Sparda fought against both Mundus(while he was still a demon king --this will be important later on) and his demon army single-handedly and defeated them all. So whatever power level Mundus may possess, Sparda should be considered at least equal to Mundus, if not more powerful.

Secondly, when Dante fought Mundus in DMC1, he was not in his most well state, I'm not saying that he should be upgraded to something absurd like Universal -I was reading the previous discussion while the rule about Mundus was made- but hear me out; there are two important points to consider;

1) Mundus was not the Demon King he once was. He was sealed by Sparda for 2000 years and he was just regaining his powers when Dante visited Mallet Island. The demons who lived there worshipped him as a higher power and worked for him, sure; but think about it. There was a war between two worlds, meaning the whole mankind was fighting against demon forces; however as both DMC3 and manga suggests, Mundus wasn't even influential to most of the demon population and didn't even appear until Vergil was all alone in the depths of the Demon World.

What I'm trying to say is, basically we can't accept DMC1 Mundus's abilities as a true demonstration of his powers, but rather a fraction of it, and we have no real way to calculate his true power level. I'm suggesting that Mundus should remain as Unknown. Saying anything about his power level until further information would be doing injustice.

Based on every information we have, powerscaling him from Dante and saying At least 6-B makes sense; but it's just a way of saying "We don't know how powerful he is but we know powerless he isn't." which isn't saying much honestly. And based on the information we have, that applies for Sparda and Argosax as well for the same reasons. I will come back to this later.

I mean just think about the way Dante seals Mundus. He borrows powers from Trish, which is Mundus's own creation, and even in his weakened state, Mundus implies he can create infinite number of Trishs. Getting beaten by something you created buy just a fraction of your power doesn't make sense, even if it's your utmost weakened state.

2) In DMC1, Dante wasn't, or at least shouldn't be as powerful as Sparda either, even with Sparda sword. Remember how Arkham turned into a giant blob and Sanctus get devastated by Nero? Of course, it's because they don't have enough "humanity" in them according to the DMC lore; but Dante being a human and Sparda's son doesn't make him as strong as Sparda immediately and we shouldn't assume it.

Remember how the Devil Arm you pick affects Dante's (and Vergil's) DT state in DMC3? That happens because Dante isn't strong enough to keep a true demon form himself and his Devil Arms influence him. That happens in DMC1 too. I agree on the notion that Sparda sword gives him a huge boost, but not enough to defeat entire demon armies and a Demon King all by himself and it simply has to do with Dante's ability to control his own power. In DMC1, he's not there yet.

And yeah there's the "It's implied that Dante surpassed Sparda." argument; but Berial implied the same for Nero, saying "You are just like he was." which is nonsense since he's nowhere near Sparda's power or even Dante's.


My last point is about Argosax since we have a little more information about him than Mundus. According to Argosax's DMC2 Enemy File he is a Demon King, just like Mundus and he was able to subdue all the demons himself. He was also defeated by Sparda, pretty similar to Mundus's case.

Now; Argosax was just unsealed when he fought with Dante. So at that state he should be pretty powerless from what he once was while he was fighting against Sparda, just like Mundus in his DMC1 state. But the difference here is how Dante grown since DMC1's events. Dante who once barely defeated Mundus with borrowed power from his father's sword now kills an nearly --if not equally-- as powerful being with a single gunshot. We are talking about a being that can distort an island just by being near it. It shows both how powerful he is and that he cannot even control/focus his powers clearly. One can even speculate that he's unable to control himself; but I think it's agreeable that against this being, no one in DMC universe except the godtier beings like Sparda, Dante and Mundus could stand a chance.


Now, in DMC4 and DMC2, unlike the other two games, Dante can actually maintain a True DT state. The Devil Arms he possesses doesn't influence/change his Demon Form. Which means he has better, if not total control on his powers.

This is why imo DMC3, DMC1 and DMC4,2 Dante should be treated as separate entities. Anime Dante was also able to one-shot a being he would have more trouble to beat in his earlier incarnations; but unlike DMC4 Dante, which constantly one-shots powerful demons, he used his DT to do so.

What I mean here is that Anime Dante is the last Dante we see defeating a being using his DT, which means he plays serious. If we are going to state that Dante has Planet Level powers, it should just be his 4 and 2 incarnations. Therefore we need a separation.

Moving forward from my conclusions, I suggest that;

- Mundus, Sparda and Argosax should stay as "Unknow" or should be edited as "Unknow, at least 6-B, likely 5-B, possibly higher".

- Dante's tiers should be separated as DMC3 | DMC1 | DMC TAS | DMC4,2 and only DMC4,2 Dante should have the Planet Level tier. DMC1 Dante with Sparda sword should be at equal footing with Anime Dante so I don't think there shouldn't be an addition to him. A parenthesis note like "(6-B with the sword Sparda)" should do the trick, if necessary. This also brings a need to calculate his DMC1 state's power level.


Sorry if this was a long post or if I violated any rule unwillingly. I just thought those points are worth discussing.


Edit: I accidentally posted here. I meant to post it to this one. Should I repost?

^Yup

cool man nice points

@SkyLyn7n I think that this seems reasonable.

Also noticed Dante is Massively Hypersonic+ with Sub-relativistic combat/reaction speed. This is contradictory as the speed is automatically listed as combat speed. Basically you're saying he's massively hypersonic+ and sub-relativistic in combat speed simultaneously.

Well, I think that we should probably make a distinction between the two again, as it is common with characters that can dodge extremely swift attacks, but not run very fast.

I have now corrected the oversight in the Speed page.

Okay, but the issue with Dante's page persists. It should be specified that the massively hypersonic+ rating is (I'm guessing) travel speed so as to not confuse the debaters unfamiliar with the character. That minor issue aside, I agree with what was proposed by SkyLyn7n.

Yes. This should probably be clarified.

Same with what Antvasima and the others on what SkyLyn7n said.