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I saw that tier 0 description states something that doesn't really make sense:
(Please read till the end to understand my point correctly)
"Such characters will usually stand hierarchically above everything, including existence and nonexistence..."
Maybe i misunderstanding here something but saying that someone who should be tier 0 is above nonexistence isn't very logical...
I mean the being who stands in the highest place at the hierarchy placement should be superior to everyone at his verse though there's no one who can be above nonexistence, as nonexistence is probably the last "possible" level to reach (i know that they got beyond the possibility, but i meant possible in another way i will explain).
because by the definition of this site to tier 0:
"Such characters will usually stand hierarchically above everything, including existence and nonexistence, possibility, causality, dualism, the concepts of life and death, etcetera."
So the classification for a tier 0 is someone who hierarchically above existence, nonexistence, possibility, causality, concepts of life and death etc...
but that's the point by being none existed you already transcend every of does category (except nonexistence)... you transcend existence obviously, the concept of death and life again obviously, the concept of dimension, causality, possibility and pretty much everything, by saying that someone can transcend nonexistence it's logical and philosophical impossible.
Think about it like that if there is a "God" he created existence but he never really created something even similar to nonexistence as if it was a creation of "God" it wouldn't be called nonexistence because all the point of nonexistence is the "side-effect" of creation if nothing was ever created by this "God" there wouldn't be something that classified as nonexistence because than existence itself still wasn't created so there just was nothing but "God" isn't reasonable for that nothingness.
it's like saying that an artist is reasonable for the blank white paper, he doesn't right?
he reasonable for the creation or in his term his art (not the best explanation as the artist here stands above the blank paper since he can add and remove everything he wants but you got my point), that how this should work by being at the same level as the nonexistence you should be above everything that possible\ impossible to think about further than that it's just can't be...
A lot of philosophers argued about what nonexistence should be or "not be" and there are literally books about that, but it's still can't be answered as the most logical explanation:
"To speak of a thing, one has to speak of a thing that exists. Since we can speak of a thing in the past, this thing must still exist (in some sense)"
That can be argued but still, make some sense as a thing that got beyond memory, sense, time and space are not exist due to that we can't speak or think about it as in Marvel after the "Secret Wars" (I think so) no one who "exist" has been talking about that (I'm not sure if what i'm speaking about is correct or might be confusing it with something else), but being beyond any kind of reach still would end up in the nonexistence as Oblivion told for example:
"The nothing from which everything springs"
"'Before the multiverse was... I was. At the end of all things... I wait."
In these statements Oblivion, for example, gives us hints about what nonexistence is, as he said before multiverse (existence) was probably referred everything that has been created by TOAA.
What probably means that he's above existence by a lot, and after everything and everyone who has a connection with existence will go he would wait he would be there no matter what would happen, because even TOAA can't stop nonexistence as it's have nothing to do with how powerful this being is, it's about the maximum you can get, being one with the nonexistence or as strong as that it's the highest possible level more than that it's impossible to reach.
He even stated that from him everything began, because he always was here he just was there as TOAA, he never would go again as TOAA and probably TOAA can't get rid of him because of the nature of not existing in any level of aspect.
(It's not about who stronger or that Oblivion should be tier 0 it's for an explanation that as the site define tier 0, beings like Oblivion which are the nonexistence or at the same hierarchical power as nonexistence should be classified as tier 0 and if they don't there's a problem with the definition of tier 0 as i can't understand the idea behind this definition to tier 0).
Saying that someone is beyond nonexistence is like stating "before nothing was i was" is it sounds logical in any way? there's nothing beyond nothing as that the point of nothing.
Creation can be limited nothingness can't as it's a philosophical, theoretical idea of a thing which is beyond any kind of reach or thought something no one can exceed, as then all the point of nothingness has gone.
Therefore, stating that tier 0 should be hierarchically above someone as oblivion who possess the full power nonexistence can posses, i would like if someone can explain me or convince me that what i'm saying makes no sense and being above nonexistence is possible.
(Please read till the end to understand my point correctly)
"Such characters will usually stand hierarchically above everything, including existence and nonexistence..."
Maybe i misunderstanding here something but saying that someone who should be tier 0 is above nonexistence isn't very logical...
I mean the being who stands in the highest place at the hierarchy placement should be superior to everyone at his verse though there's no one who can be above nonexistence, as nonexistence is probably the last "possible" level to reach (i know that they got beyond the possibility, but i meant possible in another way i will explain).
because by the definition of this site to tier 0:
"Such characters will usually stand hierarchically above everything, including existence and nonexistence, possibility, causality, dualism, the concepts of life and death, etcetera."
So the classification for a tier 0 is someone who hierarchically above existence, nonexistence, possibility, causality, concepts of life and death etc...
but that's the point by being none existed you already transcend every of does category (except nonexistence)... you transcend existence obviously, the concept of death and life again obviously, the concept of dimension, causality, possibility and pretty much everything, by saying that someone can transcend nonexistence it's logical and philosophical impossible.
Think about it like that if there is a "God" he created existence but he never really created something even similar to nonexistence as if it was a creation of "God" it wouldn't be called nonexistence because all the point of nonexistence is the "side-effect" of creation if nothing was ever created by this "God" there wouldn't be something that classified as nonexistence because than existence itself still wasn't created so there just was nothing but "God" isn't reasonable for that nothingness.
it's like saying that an artist is reasonable for the blank white paper, he doesn't right?
he reasonable for the creation or in his term his art (not the best explanation as the artist here stands above the blank paper since he can add and remove everything he wants but you got my point), that how this should work by being at the same level as the nonexistence you should be above everything that possible\ impossible to think about further than that it's just can't be...
A lot of philosophers argued about what nonexistence should be or "not be" and there are literally books about that, but it's still can't be answered as the most logical explanation:
"To speak of a thing, one has to speak of a thing that exists. Since we can speak of a thing in the past, this thing must still exist (in some sense)"
That can be argued but still, make some sense as a thing that got beyond memory, sense, time and space are not exist due to that we can't speak or think about it as in Marvel after the "Secret Wars" (I think so) no one who "exist" has been talking about that (I'm not sure if what i'm speaking about is correct or might be confusing it with something else), but being beyond any kind of reach still would end up in the nonexistence as Oblivion told for example:
"The nothing from which everything springs"
"'Before the multiverse was... I was. At the end of all things... I wait."
In these statements Oblivion, for example, gives us hints about what nonexistence is, as he said before multiverse (existence) was probably referred everything that has been created by TOAA.
What probably means that he's above existence by a lot, and after everything and everyone who has a connection with existence will go he would wait he would be there no matter what would happen, because even TOAA can't stop nonexistence as it's have nothing to do with how powerful this being is, it's about the maximum you can get, being one with the nonexistence or as strong as that it's the highest possible level more than that it's impossible to reach.
He even stated that from him everything began, because he always was here he just was there as TOAA, he never would go again as TOAA and probably TOAA can't get rid of him because of the nature of not existing in any level of aspect.
(It's not about who stronger or that Oblivion should be tier 0 it's for an explanation that as the site define tier 0, beings like Oblivion which are the nonexistence or at the same hierarchical power as nonexistence should be classified as tier 0 and if they don't there's a problem with the definition of tier 0 as i can't understand the idea behind this definition to tier 0).
Saying that someone is beyond nonexistence is like stating "before nothing was i was" is it sounds logical in any way? there's nothing beyond nothing as that the point of nothing.
Creation can be limited nothingness can't as it's a philosophical, theoretical idea of a thing which is beyond any kind of reach or thought something no one can exceed, as then all the point of nothingness has gone.
Therefore, stating that tier 0 should be hierarchically above someone as oblivion who possess the full power nonexistence can posses, i would like if someone can explain me or convince me that what i'm saying makes no sense and being above nonexistence is possible.
