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Hades vs Janemba (Shin Budokai)

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SSJRyu1

SSJRyu1

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Two powerful evil forces, They can bend reality to their will and like to manipulate others, but which comes out on top in a fight?

Hades is a Hell of a fighter, and has a plethora of Hax attributed to his 6,7,8 and 9th sense, as well as his armour and sword, but Janemba is the embodiment of all evil energy over multiple timelines/universes capable of twisting and manipulating time, space and reality to his will, as well as many other devious and potent hax abilities.

I am going to lean toward Janemba on this one for a couple reasons. First his speed. In his non corporeal true state he is nigh-omnipresent, this means he is getting the huge speed advantage. Also he is a very aggressive monster that will not hesitate to attack first, so I honestly see him acting faster than Hades, despite Hades HUGE but still finite speed. I could see Janemba absorbing Hades as he never shows resistance to this, maybe possessing him as the more evil a being is the easier it is for Janemba to manipulate them, and Hades is evil to say the least, or BFR him to another timeline and time as Hades has no ability to travel through time, only space to my knowledge.

And if all that stuff fails he could also theoretically make a copy of Hades which could fight the original to the death for him.

Also worth noting, Janemba is evil energy and originates in Hell, and can freely cross between living and dead and resurrect the dead to, so power over death will not work on him, and while Hades can in fact harm beings without a body, Janemba is evil energy, he has no soul to harm, and as we know if he had a soul it would go to Hell, which it doesn't, he is simply gone when he is beaten, so that route likely won't work. This takes divine curse out of the equation as it relies on cutting the soul to take effect. And I am not certain if Hades could even remove all the evil energy from across multiple timelines and dimensions at once, in fact Hades would be producing evil energy himself which would fuel janemba and make Hades easier to manipulate for him.

So I think Janemba has this match, either in a blitz with any of those hax that Hades has not shown a defence for, or by making a duplicate hades to fight the original and kill each other while Janemba feeds off Hades evil energy the whole time just getting stronger.

Future-Janemba
Hades saint seiya render by shardraldevius-d9pjdv2
 
The Living Tribunal1 said:
this one can go either way to be honest

but janemba seems to have an edge in the stats alone
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I'd agree. They both have insane hax, but I also think Janemba has a slight edge due to stats, especially the nigh omnipresent speed stat.
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
Hades blitzes him and divine curse blocks his power and life force

Unless I'm missing something and there's evil energy present in which case would just create other "impostor" Janembas
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yes, it is assumed his evil energy form is present across multiple tiemlines. Also nigh-omnipresent > mftl+ so he can't blitz him. You may not agree that he is nigh omnipresent as we talked about it earlier, but that is the stat he has on this wiki and the decision was reached with multiple mods involved, so your going to have to go by it for these battles and consider him that speed or simply not participate if you can't use his decided upon stats.

Also hades has never blocked absorption, possession or time dump bfr to my knoledge, so no proof he can, and even if none of those worked he can make a copy of hades for the two to fight to the death and win that way.
 
Are you saying that he's in his non corporeal state? In which case he cannot blitz Hades unless the place is surrounded by the energy required for him to be able to appear not even appear make fake copies of himself.

But Hades can literally blitz and one shot him from the get go so I don't see that being an issue
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
Are you saying that he's in his non corporeal state? In which case he cannot blitz Hades unless the place is surrounded by the energy required for him to be able to appear not even appear make fake copies of himself.

But Hades can literally blitz and one shot him from the get go so I don't see that being an issue
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Yes, that is his base state, and it is assumed to be everywhere like in the game across multiple timelines just like he was at his peak, including the one Hades is in. He has no need to manifest any body, he can utilize all hax in non corporeal form, that is why it is nigh-omnipresent since basically his hax can be utilized anywhere over multiple timelines at any time at his peak. That's why I say he blitzes since his non corporeal form literally instantly can activate the hax on hades, and even if Hades were immune to time dump bfr, absorption and possession, which I haven't seen proof of, he can manifest ANYBODY(barring characters of a higher tier), including Hades, so he can manifest a copy of hades if the hax don't work and they would kill each other while he feeds of the evil energy of Hades the whole time.
 
Nope even if i actually ackniwledged his supposed nigh omnipresence he still cannot blitz hades as a nigh omnipresent character hes limited by something which is evil energy which has very limited range there's no evil energy around

-Hades is far faster

-Divine curse incapacitates janemba and blocks his power

Leaving janemba with a slow a painful death

Hades wins
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
Nope even if i actually ackniwledged his supposed nigh omnipresence he still cannot blitz hades as a nigh omnipresent character hes limited by something which is evil energy which has very limited range there's no evil energy around

-Hades is far faster

-Divine curse incapacitates janemba and blocks his power

Leaving janemba with a slow a painful death

Hades wins
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Your not making any sense and ignoring the facts. I just told you the evil energy exists everywhere in the timelines at the start, including around hades. At his peak, it was felt everywhere, It is already on hades, and Hades himself has evil energy in him to manipulate and make Janemba stronger to. So no escaping it, he is getting blitzed. Unless he is immune to possession, time dump, absorbtion and all janemba's other hax he isn't getting out of the gate, and even if he is, Janemba can just make a duplicate of him and they would kill each other well janemba feeds of Hades evil energy.

Also if you don't know divine curse is not automatic, he has to use it and hit his target first, so it is not able to stop janemba from using his hax first or making a hades clone first.
 
LOL there was only enough evil energy to manifest one single impostor janemba iirc

There isnt evil energy everywhere you're literally taking stuff out of context.

A impostor janemba mannifests himself like in the game then what?

Is he supposed to blitz Hades? Yeah...thats pretty absurd

Hades blitzes and stomps here
 
The evil energy manifested multiple janemba's as well as multiple z fighters and was even able to make characters stronger than the likes of Gotenks who in this game can warp multiple dimensions and erase Cell from the timeline. And of course it can manifest the 2C Janemba to. So Hades is only 2C, it can manifest him as well.

Purple clouds in the movie, his evil energy is not just that stuff in the game for example all around earth all the fighters could feel the energy and it controlled Gohan and vegeta and effected all sorts of villains and spread through all Hell and the living world to, and warped multiple timelines, so no, it is not simply purple clouds in the game, it is literally all evil energy, which is everywhere.

hades cannot blitz a nigh omnipresent being who is already all around him and hades himself produces evil energy so Janemba is literally in him already as he is all evil energy.

Unless you got proof hades is immune to all janemba's hax he isn't getting out of the gate since janemba is faster and in him and around him, and even if he does Janemba just makes a copy of him and they kill each other while janemba feeds of Hades energy.
 
His non corporeal state is purple clouds whether you accept it or not.

And he forms fake versions of himself through evil energy he doesnt manifest himself literally

Also evil energy in one area creates one fake janemba as show where everywhere had only 1.

Hades is leagues faster than him so he blitzes and stomps him without even trying due to his variant haxxes.

But divine curse should be able to one shot him since its not only physical and blocks power

Its Hades win
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
His non corporeal state is purple clouds whether you accept it or not.

And he forms fake versions of himself through evil energy he doesnt manifest himself literally

Also evil energy in one area creates one fake janemba as show where everywhere had only 1.

Hades is leagues faster than him so he blitzes and stomps him without even trying due to his variant haxxes.

But divine curse should be able to one shot him since its not only physical and blocks power

Its Hades win
Click to expand...
He is all across the world, and universe, and other world at once, warping all space and time across multiple dimensions with the energy. The clouds may have appeared and been a part of him, but his true self is still shown and described to be all evil energy, which is a non corporeal entity that is felt and acts everywhere.

His true self is the evil energy, he does not have a body somewhere else, he literally is the energy. They can't defeat him till he decides to put all his energy into one body.

It depends on how much energy he puts into them, he can make them more or less but the stronger they are the more evil energy it takes.

Hades is mftl+, Janemba is nigh omnipresent, Hades cannot blitz, Janemba is across the universe and timelines, even hades himself has evil energy so Janemba is already inherently in him, this is not up for debate, it is fact and how his profile is set up, that is why he is listed as nigh omnipresent, we agreed that this is how he is set up, since that is the case.

Divine curse may be able to win, although I don't know if it really can since it relies on attack the soul if I'm not mistaken, but Janemba doesn't have a soul, when he is beaten he doesn't go to Hell he just disappears, as he is just pure evil energy.

Either way though, Hades won't get a chance to use it if he isn't immune to Janemba's hax, as janemba is assumed to be around him, and in this case hades even has evil energy in him to start with. And even if he is immune Janemba can just manifest a copy of Hades, and they will kill each other while he feeds of Hades evil energy and just gains power the whole time.

So no, unless you can prove Hades is immune to all Janemba's ahx he doesn't get a chance to even attack realistically. And even then he will just have to fight a copy of himself and he and the copy would kill each other.
 
I don't know who would win (actually might side with Ryu for once lol. Nigh-omni is hard to beat as any character bound by thime), but one thing: the whole "create a fighter" thing seems to be a little NLF-ey. I mean, creating another fighter on the same tier as you? Unlikely, and if possible, probably very taxing. I'd say that cloning should be useless for Janemba or, well, anyone, unless used on a being a whole tier lower But yeah, I would probably give it to Janemba most of the time.
 
The real cal howard said:
I don't know who would win (actually might side with Ryu for once lol. Nigh-omni is hard to beat as any character bound by thime), but one thing: the whole "create a fighter" thing seems to be a little NLF-ey. I mean, creating another fighter on the same tier as you? Unlikely, and if possible, probably very taxing. I'd say that cloning should be useless for Janemba or, well, anyone, unless used on a being a whole tier lower But yeah, I would probably give it to Janemba most of the time.
Click to expand...
Glad to have you agree ^_^. And me and Azathoth generally agreed that he can make one on his own tier, as he did manifest fighters of likely 2C levels in shin budokai, although it would take up most of his energy, but higher tier than himself would be NLF, that is true.
 
Oh also one other big thing is since Janemba has no soul soul manipulation like divine curse will not effect him, which is usually one of Hades trump cards.
 
Soul Punisher: Gogeta raises his hand in the air and creates a rainbow colored ball of ki and sends it to the opponent which can mess with the soul to an extent. It was used to basically cancel out Janemba's existence and purify him. Gogeta also uses this in tandem with a powerful rush move in a version called Stardust Breaker.

^Janemba has no soul? K..
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
Soul Punisher: Gogeta raises his hand in the air and creates a rainbow colored ball of ki and sends it to the opponent which can mess with the soul to an extent. It was used to basically cancel out Janemba's existence and purify him. Gogeta also uses this in tandem with a powerful rush move in a version called Stardust Breaker.

^Janemba has no soul? K..
Click to expand...
Janemba in the movie is not the same as the game. That one has a soul as the ogre inside has one that is corrupt, this Janemba does not have a soul, he is pure evil energy and never had one to begin with unlike the movie version.

Also the fact still remains he did not go to hell like any other character would, meaning he had no soul to send there, and furthermore it is Goku and Vegeta using a combined Kamehameha that finish him off in the game, not a soul punisher attack, so yeah, even if soul punisher can effect souls, it doesn't beat Janemba in this game and he has shown not to have a soul since he doesn't go to heaven or Hell by being killed from a combined Kamehameha, and being pure evil energy as opposed to a creature with a soul to base from.
 
Didn't think his movie counterpart would that different oh well.

Regardless the fact remains Janembas non corporeal form is just purple clouds if those purple clouds manifest a physical form it'll still be FTL+ at best.

There's no blitzing in cloud form..
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
Didn't think his movie counterpart would that different oh well.

Regardless the fact remains Janembas non corporeal form is just purple clouds if those purple clouds manifest a physical form it'll still be FTL+ at best.

There's no blitzing in cloud form..
Click to expand...
Yeah he certainly is very different, almost like a psudo abstract tbh with his true form.

I already explained that he is not just purple clouds, but the true energy spanning across multiple timelines warping all time and space, and is all over everything as everywhere on the planet and beyond people are turning evil due to it being everywhere. He is literally in every part of space time warping it across all the different dimensions and many timelines at once. This is why he is considered nigh omnipresent, if he were just the purple clouds we would not have made his stats like that, so Please refrain from ignoring his decided upon stats even if you don't agree.

Also remember Hades already has evil energy in him, so he can't escape it as he literally exudes Janemba from himself to. And since soul manipulation won't work on Janemba, it stops the usefulness of soul based attacks, like divine curse or others, so Hades ways of wining severely dwindle due to that.

So considering all that, really going by the stats on his page, and considering him nigh omnipresent including around hades, and Janemba being unaffected by soul based attacks, I think even you should agree that he would win, it is just a fight that Hades is not well suited for since Janemba is already very powerful and has massive hax coupled with his non corporeal nature, and Hades best moves that involve the soul would be ineffective as well as Hades being evil which will only make him more susceptible to Janemba and feed him more power.
 
Purple clouds which can manifest physical forms are not blitzing MFTL+ characters sorry

Write all those paragraphs you want it still is not changing the actual context behind Janembas non corporeal form

Janemba is harmless unless he solidifies even Gogeta said so once he stomped him in shin bokudai so that supposed nigh omnipresence is literally useless in that form
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
Purple clouds which can manifest physical forms are not blitzing MFTL+ characters sorry

Write all those paragraphs you want it still is not changing the actual context behind Janembas non corporeal form

Janemba is harmless unless he solidifies even Gogeta said so once he stomped him in shin bokudai so that supposed nigh omnipresence is literally useless in that form
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Gogeta only beats a clone, and the evil energy in that area is gone afterward as it was used to make the clone, that is why Pikon assumes they are safe for the time being. He also is not aware that Janemba can manifest at any point where evil energy is till later, and they are shocked that he returns, and we see the energy absorb people, posses them, warp time and space across timelines make bodies and duplicates, pluck Gohan from the past out of a dream and bring him to the physical future, all as the evil energy, not a body, so it is very potent alone without a body, the only thing it cannot do without a body is physical striking and things like that, all the hax are usable via non corporeal form and he has demonstrated it.

Like I said, you may not agree but go by what is on the profile for speed, he is shown to be everywhere in evil energy form, and Hades himself has evil energy in him, so he is indeed around and in hades.

Also without soul manipulation working Hades loses his attacks that could have severely crippled Janemba if they hit, especially divine curse.
 
hades blitzzes him and destroys his soul to it`s very core till nothing is left of him. 1 strike from hades will unable him to use his powers, hell hades can erase his existence.
 
Again Janemba is not blitzing anyone in his non corporeal state he is purple clouds which just float around.

There needs to be evil energy everywhere and even then it has only shown to make one impostor him appear and nothing more.

That impostor or even his true self for that matter is literally over billions of times slower than Hades.

Hades can still manipulate energy to a atomic level. All he needs to do is absorb it once he's dealt with Janembas physical form.

Then you have the fact that he can whippe Janembas memories. Janemba won't even know his techniques.

You cannot even claim Janembas has anything on Hades in terms of speed.Janemba even in his non corporeal state of purple clouds creates fakes of himself and was pretty harmless until he solidified again.

That's not being able to appear anywhere. And even then he still can't blitz Hades since a location with evil energy only creates a single Janemba impostor.
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
Hades can still manipulate energy to a atomic level. All he needs to do is absorb it once he's dealt with Janembas physical form.
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hades can destroy astral/soul/physical/energys he doesn`t need to absorbe it he can simple erase all of energy into nothingness
 
Shanks of the red haired pirates said:
hades can destroy astral/soul/physical/energys he doesn`t need to absorbe it he can simple erase all of energy into nothingness
Click to expand...
I don't read SS but if so then he stomps even more.
yes. which is why janemba ain`t beating hades. the speed diffrence is enormous, janemba also lacks the hax which hades has. hell, hades`s max potential is unknowen as he was not wearing his kamui (which is said that no cloth can compare with it, surplic, gold cloth, even god cloth)
 
Janemba doesn't even do anything in his non corporeal state he's just floating purple clouds of evil energy Gogeta literally ignored it and said we should be safe for now.

He's too slow in both forms to land even a single blow on Hades and he loses I agree.
 
Victor2 said:
hades blitzzes him and destroys his soul to it`s very core till nothing is left of him. 1 strike from hades will unable him to use his powers, hell hades can erase his existence.
Click to expand...
Janemba has no soul, that will not work as divine curse attacks the soul for it's effects.

Also Janemba is nigh-omnipresent, Hades can't blitz a nigh omnipresent opponent especially over multiple timelines. And while he can't use strikes in his energy form he can utilize all his hax and does so in the game. So saying he can't attack is ignoring the facts. He could absorb, posses, time dump bfr Hades, or simply make a duplicate hades to fight to the death with the original if none of that worked. All before Hades can act.

Also Hades is evil and has evil energy in him making him like food for Janemba and much easier for Janemba to manipulate as well.
 
Hades seems to be more haxed but Janemba's Regenerationn probably makes him harder to kill. He should be able to pull out a win due to a greater speed though his incorporality may limit this advantage.
 
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