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I think Shallot's super saiyan form should be added to his profile since he achieved it recently
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Shallot Upgrades
- Thread starter LightinAnt
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Yes, but from what i have gathered the scaling in Legends clearly follows a different path unlike Xenoverse.
This continuity is like the Xenoverse one where Anime only char. such as Turles can interact with Super char. like Frost, however by watching this playlist i saw a lot of cross-continuity stuff such as the story goes on. The first Saga is similar to Saiyan Saga one, but then it shift into a totally different thing as the Fake Frieza Saga, after it acts as the Frieza Saga. [There many multicolored Saibaman and Frieza Soldiers enemies]
- Shallot starts his adventure by fighting Raditz , then Zarbon and Dodoria in the next arc.
- The journey seems to be regular until he suddendly trains with Super Saiyan Goku, and is stated to be an Ancient Saiyan.
- After that he fight First Form Frieza , but he is obliviously no match form him, so he joins forces with him and then fights some Z-Fighterz. Then, suddendly Android 19 appears , then at 10:10 Shallot fights with Nappa and Vegeta. Later fights Zarbon and Dodoria again, but after them Shallot has his first match with Recoome and Guldo .
Things starts to get very bad from here [The canon team should be Frieza, Shallot, Vegeta and Nappa at this point]:
- Then they fight Android 19 [these ones are mass produced], but real thing starts with Turles leading to them at 22:50 to the Fake Frieza, who is revealed to be Final Form Frost [The 3-A char.] and mentions all the stuff that happened in the Tournament of Power such as Frieza betraying him.
- After fighting Turles, they end up defeating Post Tournament of Power Frost [Who is serious to kill them] after even after eating many fruits of the Tree of Might .
- Then Frieza betrays them, they fight a bunch of Android 19, Dr. Gero, Turles, The Ginyu Force and finally Frieza , who transforms up to his Final Form [Shallot and Vegeta fights him via Zenkai Boosts while Nappa likely got killed by the Ginyu Force]. Frieza then kills Vegeta, which causes Shallot to go SS and fight him, the fights ends up with Shallot killing Frieza.
This continuity is like the Xenoverse one where Anime only char. such as Turles can interact with Super char. like Frost, however by watching this playlist i saw a lot of cross-continuity stuff such as the story goes on. The first Saga is similar to Saiyan Saga one, but then it shift into a totally different thing as the Fake Frieza Saga, after it acts as the Frieza Saga. [There many multicolored Saibaman and Frieza Soldiers enemies]
- Shallot starts his adventure by fighting Raditz , then Zarbon and Dodoria in the next arc.
- The journey seems to be regular until he suddendly trains with Super Saiyan Goku, and is stated to be an Ancient Saiyan.
- After that he fight First Form Frieza , but he is obliviously no match form him, so he joins forces with him and then fights some Z-Fighterz. Then, suddendly Android 19 appears , then at 10:10 Shallot fights with Nappa and Vegeta. Later fights Zarbon and Dodoria again, but after them Shallot has his first match with Recoome and Guldo .
Things starts to get very bad from here [The canon team should be Frieza, Shallot, Vegeta and Nappa at this point]:
- Then they fight Android 19 [these ones are mass produced], but real thing starts with Turles leading to them at 22:50 to the Fake Frieza, who is revealed to be Final Form Frost [The 3-A char.] and mentions all the stuff that happened in the Tournament of Power such as Frieza betraying him.
- After fighting Turles, they end up defeating Post Tournament of Power Frost [Who is serious to kill them] after even after eating many fruits of the Tree of Might .
- Then Frieza betrays them, they fight a bunch of Android 19, Dr. Gero, Turles, The Ginyu Force and finally Frieza , who transforms up to his Final Form [Shallot and Vegeta fights him via Zenkai Boosts while Nappa likely got killed by the Ginyu Force]. Frieza then kills Vegeta, which causes Shallot to go SS and fight him, the fights ends up with Shallot killing Frieza.
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- Thread starter
- #3
I know the scaling is different, its just an AP boost thanks to his new Super Saiyan form. I'm just arguing that we add his Super saiyan to his profile EDIT:Also you are right he should be above Frieza, so an upgrade in AP should also be added
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- Thread starter
- #4
bump
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- Thread starter
- #6
Well you could use "with fruit 3-A" as a reasoning for how they've defeated him, but geez that fruit must have given one hell of a boost
Also Shallot's move list should be expanded since he can acquire Soul Punisher and the likes from other characters
Also Shallot's move list should be expanded since he can acquire Soul Punisher and the likes from other characters
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- Thread starter
- #8
Yeah i'm not for it either right now. Though shouldn't Shallot be atleast low 4.C now for defeating Frieza?
Maybe he will reach 3-A on his own when the story continues and he gets more impressive powerups and feats
Maybe he will reach 3-A on his own when the story continues and he gets more impressive powerups and feats
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- Thread starter
- #10
He achieved Super Saiyan in his fight against Frieza after Frieza killed Vegeta, the fight against Ginyu was before he had Super Saiyan so its still plausible
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I think 4-B as SS coudl be fine, look at these profiles, the reason of their scaling is based from that the characters from Anime continuity [where Piccolo feat is 5-A, King Vegeta has a High 5-A feat and First Form Frieza has a High 4-C Supernova] like Turles are in the same universe as the Super characters, so he should scale to the Future Warriors at their point of the story, through he is weaker than them since they took empowered versions of the villains.
Note: That is unless this a completely different continuity where the story is completely different and the above mentioned feats does not exits.
Note: That is unless this a completely different continuity where the story is completely different and the above mentioned feats does not exits.
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Yes, i don't even know if this continuity is supposed to have the same stuff as the Manga/Anime ones aside from the Fruit and Top stuff [Xenoverse is supposed to go back and fourth in time] with Fruit Boosted Post Tournament of Power Frost being defeated by mere early saga characters, then Frieza siding with Turles, Mass Produced Android 19 and even Dr. Gero of all the people.
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- Thread starter
- #14
4-Bs? I don't remember him fighting Buu saga characters.
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The scaling is separated from the Manga and Anime, i will make examples:LightinAnt said:
Note: Xenoverse 1 and 2 takes from the Anime continuity since Turles, Slug and Cooler are enemies, which Legends seemingly also has with Turles.
Manga BoZ Piccolo: 5-B. | Anime BoZ Piccolo: 5-A.
Manga King Vegeta: 5-B. | Anime King Vegeta: High 5-A.
Manga First Form Frieza: High 5-A+. | Anime First Form Frieza: High 4-C.
70% Final Form Frieza Manga: Low 4-C. | Anime 70% Final Form Frieza: 4-B.
Perfect Cell Manga: At least High 4-C. | Anime Perfect Cell: 4-A from Broly.
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- #16
I knew there were discrepancies in scaling but never knew it was this extreme
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- #18
Also shouldn't Shallot be FTL+ now?
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- #21
Well its a safe lowball scaling him from manga Frieza. Also he should get a speed upgrade anyway with Super Saiyan
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Turles is there, who is an Anime Only Continuity char. isn't confusionary to have char. from two different continuities in the same universe unless its own universe and he, A.19 and Gero are threated as regular 5-B's [Unless later the story goes into the beginning of the Android Arc], however the fact that they were not oneshoted and prevailed over Frost bugs me.LightinAnt said:
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You could count that as Plot induced stupidity or outliers. For Shallot, he has been consistently portrayed in the Namek-Frieza saga range up to now
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- #25
So was Batman kicking the Spectre or Thor getting hurt by bullets. We should go for the most consistent showings of power
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- #26
For Shallot if we scale him to Toieverse then he should be 4-B and MFTL+ as a Super Saiyan, if we scale him to manga then low 4-C and FTL+
He needed an upgrade anyway, so i'm fine with either
He needed an upgrade anyway, so i'm fine with either
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bump
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I haven't reached the part that Shallot goes Super Saiyan but do we even know if this Frieza is Planet Vegeta, Namek or RoF? You could argue he wouldn't be merciful to Vegeta if this is during the RoF time period (seeing as he betrayed him) but Frieza has also shown in the past that he is perfectly fine with using the people he loathes as servants.
I don't think Frost is an outlier by any means considering the only real argument for him being universal is the idea that Goku and Vegeta are universal in ALL forms rather than just God and up. It's certainly worth noting that the ORIGINAL intent was Goku being SSG in base but, to my memory, this was retconned in the anime. Overall, depending on timeframe it isn't too crazy of an idea that Frieza, Shallot, Vegeta and Nappa could all take on an enhanced Frost. Especially when you realise that Vegeta and Nappa have actively been fighting and training on a planet with warriors from all eras.
Raditz himself is blatantly vastly superior to his canon counterpart and, again to memory, was even stated to have grown much stronger than he was prior. While it would be difficult to scale all of this it is quite clear that Frieza is vastly superior to everyone else (in first form), that Vegeta and Nappa are much stronger than their Saiyan saga selves and that Shallot is consistently growing stronger at a rapid pace.
Overall, it depends on how much they could have grown from their time on the merged world and what zenkai boosting they could have received. It's not too far-fetched for Shallot to zenkai boost from Ginyu-level to Goku-level (seeing as that's exactly what Goku did) then go Super Saiyan.
I don't think Frost is an outlier by any means considering the only real argument for him being universal is the idea that Goku and Vegeta are universal in ALL forms rather than just God and up. It's certainly worth noting that the ORIGINAL intent was Goku being SSG in base but, to my memory, this was retconned in the anime. Overall, depending on timeframe it isn't too crazy of an idea that Frieza, Shallot, Vegeta and Nappa could all take on an enhanced Frost. Especially when you realise that Vegeta and Nappa have actively been fighting and training on a planet with warriors from all eras.
Raditz himself is blatantly vastly superior to his canon counterpart and, again to memory, was even stated to have grown much stronger than he was prior. While it would be difficult to scale all of this it is quite clear that Frieza is vastly superior to everyone else (in first form), that Vegeta and Nappa are much stronger than their Saiyan saga selves and that Shallot is consistently growing stronger at a rapid pace.
Overall, it depends on how much they could have grown from their time on the merged world and what zenkai boosting they could have received. It's not too far-fetched for Shallot to zenkai boost from Ginyu-level to Goku-level (seeing as that's exactly what Goku did) then go Super Saiyan.
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I like it, a lot. Personally don't see an issue with replacing it.
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Yeah, no, that retcon you're referring to doesn't exist. People assume that just because Goku uses the SSG form that his base isn't equal to his first use of it. Goku uses it as a transformation that is stronger than SS3 now, plain and simple. There is NO retcon, so please stop spreading misinformation.
This Frieza never met Goku before, so it's Namek Saga, and the gap between standard Frost and Vegeta is massive, regardless. Characters being far stronger than their counterparts in the anime due to fighting a bunch doesn't help us. At all.
This Frieza never met Goku before, so it's Namek Saga, and the gap between standard Frost and Vegeta is massive, regardless. Characters being far stronger than their counterparts in the anime due to fighting a bunch doesn't help us. At all.
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I'm not spreading misinformation. I explicitly said that it's to my memory. Please don't just assume that I am trying to lie to push some sort of stupid agenda. I am just stating that it's plausible that Goku and the others aren't actually universal outside of god forms which would make Frieza, Shallot, Nappa and Vegeta taking on an enhanced Frost more plausible, as to justify the strange scaling presented in the game.
What I am suggesting is a reasonable interpetation of the scaling presented, not misinformation.
I also have to question why you believe characters being stronger due to fighting 'doesn't help us. At all.' Which seems to be an utterly absurd statement. Vegeta went from a power level of 18,000 on Earth to being, if I recall, somewhere in the hundred thousands to millions range. Over the course of a singular month. Nappa presenting a somewhat similar gain is not far-fetched nor is Shallot scaling to a similar level.
Frieza is also presented as a prodigy, while he doesn't train there is some potential for him having grown from being disengaged with his army. Considering Frost was depicted as having grown much stronger from being a fugitive it would seem reasonable for Frieza, someone who is depicted as more competent and prodigious, would have grown considerably from the experience.
You should also consider cases in the Tournament of Power itself. God of Destruction Toppo failed to defeat Android 17, despite 17 evidently being far weaker. This is due to 17 fighting smart. While you would expect Frost to just kill everyone in a singular attack, it is plausible that he is just poor at dealing with multiple opponents, no matter how weak.
Regardless, I am simply making arguments for WHY this scaling may function. It's very important to consider all the possibilities and potential reasonings presented instead of just dismissing it entirely.
What I am suggesting is a reasonable interpetation of the scaling presented, not misinformation.
I also have to question why you believe characters being stronger due to fighting 'doesn't help us. At all.' Which seems to be an utterly absurd statement. Vegeta went from a power level of 18,000 on Earth to being, if I recall, somewhere in the hundred thousands to millions range. Over the course of a singular month. Nappa presenting a somewhat similar gain is not far-fetched nor is Shallot scaling to a similar level.
Frieza is also presented as a prodigy, while he doesn't train there is some potential for him having grown from being disengaged with his army. Considering Frost was depicted as having grown much stronger from being a fugitive it would seem reasonable for Frieza, someone who is depicted as more competent and prodigious, would have grown considerably from the experience.
You should also consider cases in the Tournament of Power itself. God of Destruction Toppo failed to defeat Android 17, despite 17 evidently being far weaker. This is due to 17 fighting smart. While you would expect Frost to just kill everyone in a singular attack, it is plausible that he is just poor at dealing with multiple opponents, no matter how weak.
Regardless, I am simply making arguments for WHY this scaling may function. It's very important to consider all the possibilities and potential reasonings presented instead of just dismissing it entirely.
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I understand, but even if the god stuff is disgregarded Frost stomped Roshi, who defeated Tien, who easily destroyed the Katchi Material, which is much more durable to the one that Buu Saga Base Gohan was unable to destroy, they also defeated Dr. Gero, who is on the same tier as Final Frieza. While it's true that we have Frieza jumping from Low 4-C to 3-A, it doesn't justify a worse jump from Tier 5 to 3-A, and Frieza is indeed a prodigy like you stated. Lastly using a game of its own continuity that clearly doesn't know the scaling with the char. from the different saga's should not be used to downgrade or upgrade the other continuities, so i'd rather wait for Shallot to have more 3-A feats, and just place him there.
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"I understand, but even if the god stuff is disgregarded Frost stomped Roshi, who defeated Tien, who easily destroyed the Katchi Material"
Honestly, I found the entire Kachi Katchin debacle to be ridiculous. Practically everyone was destroying it so I'm not even sure if that feat should be acknowledged or not...Just more weird scaling from Super I guess.
"which is much more durable to the one that Buu Saga Base Gohan was unable to destroy"
It's worth noting that Beerus estimated that base Goku wouldn't have been capable of defeating Frieza (presumably 100% Final Form) which would indicate the base saiyans were likely below 120 million in power, probably less than Frieza's casual power of around 60 million. While that doesn't fix any scaling it does make it less stupid.
"they also defeated Dr. Gero, who is on the same tier as Final Frieza"
This in itself would indicate they are either much stronger than in canon or this Gero is likely from before the Android saga. It took him three years after Trunk's warning to finish himself and 19 so I can imagine we are just fighting prototypes.
"While it's true that we have Frieza jumping from Low 4-C to 3-A, it doesn't justify a worse jump from Tier 5 to 3-A"
I doubt Shallot and Frieza are 3-A. I'm just implying Frieza probably grew in power enough to survive Frost after being a fugitive (like how Frost grew stronger). Shallot COULD have made a huge leap to 3-A, seeing as we know nothing about his past self's power, but I sincerely doubt it.
"from the different saga's should not be used to downgrade or upgrade the other continuities"
Oh certainly not, I am just bringing up that it's possible that the current impression (that the pre-god saiyans are all 3-A now) may very well be a false or inaccurate belief and that it could justify the characters here fighting an enhanced Frost.
As far as I can tell we have a few ideas here...
1. Frost is much weaker than initially thought (and thus would scale a few other characters down). Say, Frost is Solar System-level and Frieza (as well as the saiyans) are all much stronger than we would first think. That would be much more reasonable for them to survive an enhanced Frost.
2. The saiyans (and first form Frieza) have grown so much that they are, in-fact, stronger than Android 19 and Android 20 in base (the canon, full power versions) which could make them fighting Frost more sensible.
3. Frost is just a terrible tactician and was completely outplayed by Frieza.
4. The fight itself may have taken place only over the course of a minute or so, which was enough for the FoM to screw Frost's body up. Thus explaining how a group of four fighters (lets say they are all around Namek Goku level) could survive long enough to kill him.
Of course, despite all of my arguments you could just dismiss it as screwed up scaling or simply wait to see more feats from SS Shallot to get a better idea of his strength but, as I already said, it's good to just question what could make it work instead of just why it wouldn't work.
Honestly, I found the entire Kachi Katchin debacle to be ridiculous. Practically everyone was destroying it so I'm not even sure if that feat should be acknowledged or not...Just more weird scaling from Super I guess.
"which is much more durable to the one that Buu Saga Base Gohan was unable to destroy"
It's worth noting that Beerus estimated that base Goku wouldn't have been capable of defeating Frieza (presumably 100% Final Form) which would indicate the base saiyans were likely below 120 million in power, probably less than Frieza's casual power of around 60 million. While that doesn't fix any scaling it does make it less stupid.
"they also defeated Dr. Gero, who is on the same tier as Final Frieza"
This in itself would indicate they are either much stronger than in canon or this Gero is likely from before the Android saga. It took him three years after Trunk's warning to finish himself and 19 so I can imagine we are just fighting prototypes.
"While it's true that we have Frieza jumping from Low 4-C to 3-A, it doesn't justify a worse jump from Tier 5 to 3-A"
I doubt Shallot and Frieza are 3-A. I'm just implying Frieza probably grew in power enough to survive Frost after being a fugitive (like how Frost grew stronger). Shallot COULD have made a huge leap to 3-A, seeing as we know nothing about his past self's power, but I sincerely doubt it.
"from the different saga's should not be used to downgrade or upgrade the other continuities"
Oh certainly not, I am just bringing up that it's possible that the current impression (that the pre-god saiyans are all 3-A now) may very well be a false or inaccurate belief and that it could justify the characters here fighting an enhanced Frost.
As far as I can tell we have a few ideas here...
1. Frost is much weaker than initially thought (and thus would scale a few other characters down). Say, Frost is Solar System-level and Frieza (as well as the saiyans) are all much stronger than we would first think. That would be much more reasonable for them to survive an enhanced Frost.
2. The saiyans (and first form Frieza) have grown so much that they are, in-fact, stronger than Android 19 and Android 20 in base (the canon, full power versions) which could make them fighting Frost more sensible.
3. Frost is just a terrible tactician and was completely outplayed by Frieza.
4. The fight itself may have taken place only over the course of a minute or so, which was enough for the FoM to screw Frost's body up. Thus explaining how a group of four fighters (lets say they are all around Namek Goku level) could survive long enough to kill him.
Of course, despite all of my arguments you could just dismiss it as screwed up scaling or simply wait to see more feats from SS Shallot to get a better idea of his strength but, as I already said, it's good to just question what could make it work instead of just why it wouldn't work.
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